Is the Sabbath a 'test of loyalty'?

TrustAndObey · Mar 20, 2008

I used to play bingo with a man that was already dead and didn't know it. (kidding).

Did fated ever answer my post about Mary, as a Christian, keeping the Sabbath commandment after Christ was nailed to the cross? If so, I missed it.

fated · Mar 21, 2008

TrustAndObey said:
I used to play bingo with a man that was already dead and didn't know it. (kidding).

Did fated ever answer my post about Mary, as a Christian, keeping the Sabbath commandment after Christ was nailed to the cross? If so, I missed it.

I thought I had answered, but couldn't find it. Mary, as a Jew would have kept the Sabbath as it was passed on to her.

One assumes she kept a great many old Jewish laws, and her Son as well.

This is where one critical interpretation difference occurs:
Should circumcision be compulsory for all males?

TrustAndObey · Mar 21, 2008

fated said:
I thought I had answered, but couldn't find it. Mary, as a Jew would have kept the Sabbath as it was passed on to her.

One assumes she kept a great many old Jewish laws, and her Son as well.

This is where one critical interpretation difference occurs:
Should circumcision be compulsory for all males?

This is why I asked if Mary was a Jew until death or if she became a Christian. I believe she became a Christian. I agree with most Catholics that she was indeed the very first Christian.

To say the Jewish side of her kept the traditions, after Christ was nailed to the cross, doesn't really make sense to me.

There is verse after verse after verse about circumcision being of the heart instead of the flesh, so that particular thing is covered in great length in scripture. Whereas if the Sabbath was nailed to the cross or not expected of Christians, scripture certainly is vague about it. Extremely vague.

I think His mother would've known if the Sabbath was nailed to the cross, but instead she kept the commandment, as a Christian.

TrustAndObey · Mar 21, 2008

Wouldn't Christ's mother know which traditions/laws pointed to a coming Messiah?

fated · Mar 21, 2008

TrustAndObey said:
Wouldn't Christ's mother know which traditions/laws pointed to a coming Messiah?

The entire Old Testament points to the Jesus Christ.

When determining whether or not gentile (as opposed to Jewish) Christian kept the Day of our Lord or the Sabbath Catholics and most Christians resort to history, which testifies to the use of Sunday, as the Lord's day, the world made new through Jesus Christ.

We go back to an earlier post I made:
You want to talk about the Sabbath? And your assertion that following the letter of the law is more important than Christian unity and ancient tradition in the laws interpretation, thereby making the Sabbath on Saturday, as instituted a test of loyalty. I suppose what this comes down too, is that people who follow more commandment more closely are more likely to get to Heaven.

We have a very different philosophy here. I believe that the Sabbath was instituted with the intent of, among other things, community unity and was changed by the Resurrection and the Apostles. You probably know this.

Now, understanding that this is what I believe is the intent of the law, I was asking for ways in which one can better observe the Sabbath.

Regarding the old laws, the commandments did not come with punishments and costs, however, other laws did. These are like the secular laws of society, where certain actions are restricted to protect peace and other things encouraged to instill unity.

When we get into God's judgment, many of the derivatives of these laws and understanding their moral value will be important for us to understand, and are likely to bring us into greater unity with God, and thereby entrance into Heaven. However, not all are besieged the same concupiscence, that is, the disposition to sin. Not all are given the same graces, and graces given are not always tied to objective holiness.

I think that demanding the Sabbath on Saturday is no less morally tenuous than regarding the Sunday Lord's Day be kept as an act of unity.

In any case, allowing the Sabbath to build ones pride unjustly defeats the meaning of the law. Obviously, it should be done in all humility (not that you haven't - I recognize and respect the attempt at gentle guidance).

I think I understand, but my question was about how one rightly observes the Sabbath.

May the Peace and Joy of our Lord, Jesus Christ, be with you.

honorthesabbath · Mar 21, 2008

I think that demanding the Sabbath on Saturday is no less morally tenuous than regarding the Sunday Lord's Day be kept as an act of unity.

fated--I haven't read this entire thread so I'm not sure if this point has been addressed or not, but the LORD'S DAY is the 7th day Sabbath.

Many times while Adventists are greeting each other on Sabbath morning we either say, "Good morning and Happy Sabbath" or "Good morning and Happy Lord's Day'.

I just wanted to clarify that fact.

Thank you.

thecountrydoc · Mar 21, 2008

My friends,

The question posed in the OP seems to have been bounced around a bit by all the "side trips" taken in this thread. Please understand that every "side trip" taken, has indeed brought up very important points about the Sabbath, and should be fully explored.

In order to facilitate that exploration, and to answer questions raised, I will start a new thread titled: The Sabbath and Saturday Sabbath Keeping.

I will return just as soon as I can put my notes together.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

honorthesabbath · Mar 21, 2008

TrustAndObey said:
I read an article about this dog, who won the "Ugliest Dog Alive" award, and he knows he's a celebrity everywhere he goes. He STRUTS! HAHA

Do you think his owners allow mirrors in the house?

fated · Mar 21, 2008

honorthesabbath said:
fated--I haven't read this entire thread so I'm not sure if this point has been addressed or not, but the LORD'S DAY is the 7th day Sabbath.

Many times while Adventists are greeting each other on Sabbath morning we either say, "Good morning and Happy Sabbath" or "Good morning and Happy Lord's Day'.

I just wanted to clarify that fact.

Thank you.

The Truth is that I am keeping the Lord's Day as it was at the roots of the Christian Community. I in unity with history.

I agree that your interpretation makes sense.

RND · Mar 21, 2008

fated said:
I in unity with history.

What about being in unity with scripture?

fated · Mar 21, 2008

RND said:
What about being in unity with scripture?

You probably know my defenses, you just disagree.

RND · Mar 21, 2008

fated said:
You probably know my defenses, you just disagree.

Yep.

fated · Mar 21, 2008

RND said:
Yep.

I in unity with the ancient Christians... wonder how SDAs keep the Sabbath.

RND · Mar 21, 2008

fated said:
I in unity with the ancient Christians... wonder how SDAs keep the Sabbath.

Basically, the same way.

fated · Mar 21, 2008

RND said:
Basically, the same way.

You have bishops and the Real Presence in communion theology?

RND · Mar 21, 2008

fated said:
You have bishops and the Real Presence in communion theology?

Don't need bishops or the wafer for communion theology. Just Christ and just the Bible.

Can I wash your feet?

fated · Mar 21, 2008

RND said:
Don't need bishops or the wafer for communion theology. Just Christ and just the Bible.

Can I wash your feet?

I think Real Presence theology is extremely strong. Do you believe in the Real Presence? Is this a necessary tenet of the SDAs or is this dependent on the partaker?

honorthesabbath · Mar 21, 2008

fated said:
I think Real Presence theology is extremely strong. Do you believe in the Real Presence? Is this a necessary tenet of the SDAs or is this dependent on the partaker?

Those who are in communion with the real Christ understand that He is ALREADY in us in the person of the Holy Spirit given FREELY to all those who believe. No need of wafers or priests or Monstrances.

fated · Mar 21, 2008

honorthesabbath said:
Those who are in communion with the real Christ understand that He is ALREADY in us in the person of the Holy Spirit given FREELY to all those who believe. No need of wafers or priests or Monstrances.

Do you take communion? Why stuck on "wafers," EC's use intinction... I'm not sure all do... there is variation...

Isn't it useful for a community to fund a person to devote their entire existence to understanding and teaching theology?

RND · Mar 21, 2008

fated said:
I think Real Presence theology is extremely strong.

I bet.

Do you believe in the Real Presence?

As cureently practices by many different "Christian" denominations? No.

Is this a necessary tenet of the SDAs or is this dependent on the partaker?

I think Paul said that if a man was unsure of himself regarding communion then he should check himself and not take communion.

1Cr 11:27 ¶ Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

One can look all day long and will never find Jesus christ in a round, hand-made wafer.

Is the Sabbath a 'test of loyalty'?

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