klutedavid

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Hello Stephen.

You made the following statements.
Also if there weren't any people keeping Saturday Sabbath they would not have passed Laws forbidding it. A.D. 363 Council of Laodicea ordered those who worshiped on Saturday to be excommunicated.
Do you accept or reject church history?

You can't quote the council of Laodicea and at the same time, utterly reject all church history.
After that you will have to show from scripture alone and with strong doctrine sparing nothing from scripture in your response how the Sabbath day was changed or no longer important.
The Sabbath day is the seventh day, no one can change the Sabbath to a first day. That is a ridiculous idea to promote.

The Sabbath day was a national legal requirement in Israel, other nations were not subject to the Sabbath law.
If you cannot then we can conclude that tradition of Sunday Sabbath is against God and should not be kept.
Worshiping Jesus on Sunday has nothing to do with a Jewish Sabbath day. There is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath, that is a paradox.

Worshiping Jesus every day is what we should do.
From there we can proceed to see how a ungodly practice could be the mark of the beast. And how there must have been groups of people chosen by God to hold his true doctrine and keep his Sabbath day.
True doctrine is fully centered on Jesus Christ, not on the law. Jesus Christ is the revelation of the scripture.
 
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klutedavid

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Will you please stop promoting a paradox.
Your question should be, "is keeping Sunday as the SABBATH the mark of the beast?" and the answer would be no.
Your saying Ken, 'is keeping the first day as the seventh day the mark of the beast?'

That is a paradox, the first day cannot be the seventh day!
 
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klutedavid

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The Moral law is written in hearts of every man, nowhere does it say the Sabbath day has left us. In fact it says that we should fear if the Sabbath day does not remain.

If you do not keep the Sabbath day Holy then you are not Honoring God by keeping his Commandments.

Actually different sects of Christianity gathered on Sunday. Christians with pure doctrine did not.

That law sure was made my man. It is not shown anywhere in the word of God.
Love is written into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. The goal of all Christian instruction is love from a pure heart, not Sabbath obedience.

Christianity is simply all about faith and love, not the pursuit of the written law, i.e., legalism.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Hello Stephen.

You made the following statements.

Do you accept or reject church history?

You can't quote the council of Laodicea and at the same time, utterly reject all church history.

The Sabbath day is the seventh day, no one can change the Sabbath to a first day. That is a ridiculous idea to promote.

The Sabbath day was a national legal requirement in Israel, other nations were not subject to the Sabbath law.

Worshiping Jesus on Sunday has nothing to do with a Jewish Sabbath day. There is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath, that is a paradox.

Worshiping Jesus every day is what we should do.

True doctrine is fully centered on Jesus Christ, not on the law. Jesus Christ is the revelation of the scripture.
I don't reject that things within your Church happened(I even quoted from it to prove that) I reject your doctrine and Man made traditions.

Do you keep the Sabbath day Holy as commanded? Then you are not keeping the Sabbath day. It's that simple brother. All peoples under God are subject to the Lord's Sabbath Law.

We are all Jews and part of the the Lord's Spiritual kingdom/Mountain/Israel. The kingdom of the OT Jew was taken from them and given to us. Now we are all Jews after the Circumcision of the Heart and Spirit.

Your keeping it as the Lord's Holy day and using it as a day of Rest. That is what the Sabbath is, regardless of whether or not you call it the Sabbath day.

I agree worship Christ every day of the week and every minute of your life. But keep his Sabbath day Holy as Commanded.

I agree True doctrine is centered on Christ who is the word of God. So true Doctrine is focused on the word of God. I don't adhere to the Law of Moses, but I do keep the Eternal Moral Law that never passed away.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Will you please stop promoting a paradox.

Your saying Ken, 'is keeping the first day as the seventh day the mark of the beast?'

That is a paradox, the first day cannot be the seventh day!
.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Love is written into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. The goal of all Christian instruction is love from a pure heart, not Sabbath obedience.

Christianity is simply all about faith and love, not the pursuit of the written law, i.e., legalism.
The Moral law is written on the Heart of all Christians. The Mosaic law is not(i.e Legalism).
The difference between the two is where I believe your misunderstanding is originating from.

Moral law written in our hearts.
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:


Not with ink(not by mosaic law) but by the Spirit(law of the Spirit). No longer on stone(moral law) but written in our hearts(Moral law)
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Not of the letter of the law(mosaic law which killeth) but of the spirit(law of the Spirit)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

While under the mosaic law the moral law also became a ministration of Death(being coupled with law written in ink) for the Moral law is easy but the Mosaic law is bondage. The Glory contained within these tablets was Glorious to behold but they who were to be under the law could not behold this law's Glory because of the veil of Moses. Which veil has been taken away and the Glory behind the veil revealed.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


The Glory that was done away(Glory seen through the veil of the Mosaic law) was Glorious. But the Veil being taken away that which remains(moral law which was hidden behind the veil of the Mosaic law) is much more Glorious.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

This is after the promise he would write his law within us, inside our hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33-34
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 10:16
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


The Ten commandments were placed inside the ark of the Covenant written in stone by the finger of God Twice (Deuteronomy 10:2-5;Exodus 25:16; Exodus 31:16-18; Exodus 34:1) showing that they would stand for eternity. The Book of the Covenant(Exodus 34:27; Exodus 24:7; 2 Kings 23:21; 2 Kings 23:2) was only for a time, that is why he said there was going to be a new covenant(Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31). That is why the book of law, written by the hand of Moses(Exodus 34:27; Nehemiah 9:13,14) was not placed inside the ark of the Covenant with the ten commandments that were written in stone by the finger of God Twice, but were instead placed by the side of the ark( Deut 31:26) signifying that the book of law(the book of the covenant) was only for a time.


Each of the ten commandments are shown within the New Testament spoken of either by Christ or the Apostles. The keeping of the Sabbath day is no exception.

4th Commandment(Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it)

In the Old Testament: Exodus 20:8-11,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Deut 5:12-15

All of the Apostles kept the sabbath day holy and sacred.Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4

The Apostle Paul has said that the day of rest given by YHWH still remains: Hebrews 4:1-12


So you see the difference between the two?
 
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Ken Rank

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Will you please stop promoting a paradox.

Your saying Ken, 'is keeping the first day as the seventh day the mark of the beast?'

That is a paradox, the first day cannot be the seventh day!
I didn't say that, the OP's question asked if keeping the 1st day of the week as the day or worship was the mark of the beast. The answer is no.... keeping Sunday is NOT the mark of the beast. It isn't the Sabbath, but it isn't the mark of the beast either. That, is hardly a paradox. :)
 
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Ken Rank

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Love is written into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. The goal of all Christian instruction is love from a pure heart, not Sabbath obedience.

Christianity is simply all about faith and love, not the pursuit of the written law, i.e., legalism.
Legalism isn't following God's commandments... it is trying to force everyone else to keep God's and/or man's commandments. Membership to a church based on agreeing on doctrinal minutia is legalism.... an individual convicted not to eat catfish isn't.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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John and all the Apostles. Because it is not my theology, it comes from God and was spoken through them(the Apostles). And it was written in the word of God. They Kept the Sabbath day Holy, just we are commanded to do.
Name one group or one person after the Apostles and before the 18th century.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Name one group or one person after the Apostles and before the 18th century.
The ones commanded by the Catholic Church not to worship on Saturday kept the Sabbath day Holy. By resting on that day as commanded by the Lord.
CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.



In the 4th century, Socrates Scholasticus (Church History, Book V) stated:[21]

For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this. The Egyptians in the neighborhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebaïs, hold their religious assemblies on the sabbath, but do not participate in the mysteries in the manner usual among Christians in general: for after having eaten and satisfied themselves with food of all kinds, in the evening making their offerings they partake of the mysteries.

In the 5th century, Sozomen (Ecclesiastical History, Book VII), referencing Socrates Scholasticus, added to his description:[22]

Assemblies are not held in all churches on the same time or manner. The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries.

The Apostolic Constitutions (ca. 380), in Section II, reveals that the early Church kept both the seventh-day Sabbath, observed on Saturday, as well as the Lord's Day, celebrated on the first-day (Sunday):[16] "But keep the Sabbath, and the Lord’s day festival; because the former is the memorial of the creation, and the latter of the resurrection."[16][17] Section VII reemphasizes this:[18]

Be not careless of yourselves, neither deprive your Saviour of His own members, neither divide His body nor disperse His members, neither prefer the occasions of this life to the word of God; but assemble yourselves together every day, morning and evening, singing psalms and praying in the Lord’s house: in the morning saying the sixty-second Psalm, and in the evening the hundred and fortieth, but principally on the Sabbath-day. And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food?[18]

Until the Council of Laodicea, "the Sabbath had been kept in many Christian Churches."[19] It was upheld in the fourth century by the ancient Church of the East, as well as in the sixth century by the Celtic Churches.[20] Gregory of Nyssa, a fourth century Church Father, implored the faithful to observe both the seventh-day Sabbath and the Lord's Day: "With what eyes do you regard the Lord's Day, you who have desecrated the Sabbath? Do you know that these two days are related, that if you wrong one of them, you will stumble against the other?"[21] Neverthless, Johann Lorenz von Mosheim stated that the practice of observing both the Hebrew Sabbath and the Lord's Day was principally observed in those congregations that were made up of Jewish converts to Christianity and gradually faded away; on the other hand, the observance of the Lord's Day was characteristic of all Christian assemblies.[14]

As early as the second century, Irenaeus, who was a disciple of Polycarp, himself a disciple of John the Apostle, "On the Lord’s day every one of us Christians keep the Sabbath, meditating on the law, and rejoicing in the works of God."[14] Writing in the fourth century, the early Church Father, Eusebius, taught that for Christians, "the sabbath had been transferred to Sunday".[22] This view held by Eusebius, particularly his "interpretation of Psalm 91 (ca. 320) greatly influenced the ultimate transfer of sabbath assertions and prohibitions to the first day of the week."[2] In "the fourth and fifth centuries theologians in the Eastern church were teaching the practical identity of the Jewish sabbath and the Christian Sunday."[2] Saint Cæsarius of Arles (470-543) reiterated the view that "the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred onto Sunday, so that Christians had to keep it holy in the same way as the Jews had their own day of rest."[23] The Council of Elvira, in A.D. 300, declared that individuals who failed to attend church for three Sundays in a row should be excommunicated until they repented of their sin.[23]

Ethiopian Orthodox icon depicting St. George, the Crucifixion, as well as the Madonna and Child
However, the Church father Justin Martyr taught specifically that Jewish Sabbath according to the Decalogue does not apply in a binding fashion to Christians. These teachings, the starting point of Christian liberty, solidified in the early Church as a fundamental principle behind its rejection of Hebrew Sabbath practices in its observances, calling its legalisms Judaizing. In the late 4th century, the 29th canon of the Council of Laodicea finally declared that Christians must not rest on the Jewish Sabbath, but must work on that day and if possible rest on the Lord's Day, and that any found to be Judaizers are anathema from Christ.[24] As such, in many parts of Christianity, both East and West, Judaizing influences diminished and almost disappeared, became effectually non-Sabbatarian
________________________________________________

Now I just got all that from a quick look at wikepedia and I'm sure if you really wanted to find the truth you would do some digging on your end to see that there have always been those who kept the truth Sabbath day. And you can surely find better information proving this to fact from better historical sources.

I leave it up to you to look. Study to show thyself approved, seek and ye shall find.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Name one group or one person after the Apostles and before the 18th century.
Waldenses, Albigenses, and Leonists, and some Anabaptists

In the fourteenth century, "the monk Abba Ewostatewos founded a Sabbatarian movement" and fled, with his followers to "isolated parts of northwestern Ethiopia".[25] In the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, "the Sabbatarian controversy divided the kingdom during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries."[26] Zara Yaqob, the king, eventually "decreed that the Sabbatarian teaching of the northern monks become the position of the church".[26]
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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The ones commanded by the Catholic Church not to worship on Saturday kept the Sabbath day Holy. By resting on that day as commanded by the Lord.
CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.



In the 4th century, Socrates Scholasticus (Church History, Book V) stated:[21]

For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this. The Egyptians in the neighborhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebaïs, hold their religious assemblies on the sabbath, but do not participate in the mysteries in the manner usual among Christians in general: for after having eaten and satisfied themselves with food of all kinds, in the evening making their offerings they partake of the mysteries.

In the 5th century, Sozomen (Ecclesiastical History, Book VII), referencing Socrates Scholasticus, added to his description:[22]

Assemblies are not held in all churches on the same time or manner. The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries.

The Apostolic Constitutions (ca. 380), in Section II, reveals that the early Church kept both the seventh-day Sabbath, observed on Saturday, as well as the Lord's Day, celebrated on the first-day (Sunday):[16] "But keep the Sabbath, and the Lord’s day festival; because the former is the memorial of the creation, and the latter of the resurrection."[16][17] Section VII reemphasizes this:[18]

Be not careless of yourselves, neither deprive your Saviour of His own members, neither divide His body nor disperse His members, neither prefer the occasions of this life to the word of God; but assemble yourselves together every day, morning and evening, singing psalms and praying in the Lord’s house: in the morning saying the sixty-second Psalm, and in the evening the hundred and fortieth, but principally on the Sabbath-day. And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food?[18]

Until the Council of Laodicea, "the Sabbath had been kept in many Christian Churches."[19] It was upheld in the fourth century by the ancient Church of the East, as well as in the sixth century by the Celtic Churches.[20] Gregory of Nyssa, a fourth century Church Father, implored the faithful to observe both the seventh-day Sabbath and the Lord's Day: "With what eyes do you regard the Lord's Day, you who have desecrated the Sabbath? Do you know that these two days are related, that if you wrong one of them, you will stumble against the other?"[21] Neverthless, Johann Lorenz von Mosheim stated that the practice of observing both the Hebrew Sabbath and the Lord's Day was principally observed in those congregations that were made up of Jewish converts to Christianity and gradually faded away; on the other hand, the observance of the Lord's Day was characteristic of all Christian assemblies.[14]

As early as the second century, Irenaeus, who was a disciple of Polycarp, himself a disciple of John the Apostle, "On the Lord’s day every one of us Christians keep the Sabbath, meditating on the law, and rejoicing in the works of God."[14] Writing in the fourth century, the early Church Father, Eusebius, taught that for Christians, "the sabbath had been transferred to Sunday".[22] This view held by Eusebius, particularly his "interpretation of Psalm 91 (ca. 320) greatly influenced the ultimate transfer of sabbath assertions and prohibitions to the first day of the week."[2] In "the fourth and fifth centuries theologians in the Eastern church were teaching the practical identity of the Jewish sabbath and the Christian Sunday."[2] Saint Cæsarius of Arles (470-543) reiterated the view that "the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred onto Sunday, so that Christians had to keep it holy in the same way as the Jews had their own day of rest."[23] The Council of Elvira, in A.D. 300, declared that individuals who failed to attend church for three Sundays in a row should be excommunicated until they repented of their sin.[23]

Ethiopian Orthodox icon depicting St. George, the Crucifixion, as well as the Madonna and Child
However, the Church father Justin Martyr taught specifically that Jewish Sabbath according to the Decalogue does not apply in a binding fashion to Christians. These teachings, the starting point of Christian liberty, solidified in the early Church as a fundamental principle behind its rejection of Hebrew Sabbath practices in its observances, calling its legalisms Judaizing. In the late 4th century, the 29th canon of the Council of Laodicea finally declared that Christians must not rest on the Jewish Sabbath, but must work on that day and if possible rest on the Lord's Day, and that any found to be Judaizers are anathema from Christ.[24] As such, in many parts of Christianity, both East and West, Judaizing influences diminished and almost disappeared, became effectually non-Sabbatarian
________________________________________________

Now I just got all that from a quick look at wikepedia and I'm sure if you really wanted to find the truth you would do some digging on your end to see that there have always been those who kept the truth Sabbath day. And you can surely find better information proving this to fact from better historical sources.

I leave it up to you to look. Study to show thyself approved, seek and ye shall find.

Not one of these declares Sunday worship as the Mark of the beast nor do they dismiss Sunday worship as evil. I do find it odd however that you cite figures like Socrates Scholasticus or Ireneaus.

Are you actually willing to call the figures you're referring to as true Christians? I doubt it personally because as per your own reckoning you've just quoted it from wikipedia.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Waldenses, Albigenses, and Leonists, and some Anabaptists

In the fourteenth century, "the monk Abba Ewostatewos founded a Sabbatarian movement" and fled, with his followers to "isolated parts of northwestern Ethiopia".[25] In the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, "the Sabbatarian controversy divided the kingdom during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries."[26] Zara Yaqob, the king, eventually "decreed that the Sabbatarian teaching of the northern monks become the position of the church".[26]

Quote any of these that said the Mark of the beast was Sunday worship.

The Waldensians are closer to modern Protestantism yet they emerge extremely late on the historical scene and had little impact.

The Albigensians or Cathars were gnostic heretics who you really don't want to defend as they denied marriage and sexual relations, denied the incarnation of Christ, rejected the God of the Old Testament and held other bizarre beliefs none of us would take seriously.

Also, since you quoted wikipedia, here is what it says about Abba Ewostatewos: Ewostatewos view of the Sabbath was that it should be observed on both Saturday (the Lesser Sabbath) and Sunday (the Great Sabbath): Saturday for the original Sabbath of the Old Testament and Sunday in honour of the resurrection of Christ in the New.

Not exactly someone who would call Sunday worship evil or the Mark of the beast.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Not one of these declares Sunday worship as the Mark of the beast nor do they dismiss Sunday worship as evil. I do find it odd however that you cite figures like Socrates Scholasticus or Ireneaus.

Are you actually willing to call the figures you're referring to as true Christians? I doubt it personally because as per your own reckoning you've just quoted it from wikipedia.
You said show one person or Group that worshiped on Saturday. That is what I did.

You didn't say i had to agree with everything else they taught or preached.

Now I know that you want to go back on that challenge to say again that there were none that worshiped on Saturday. But unless you can admit now that it is a historical fact that people did indeed worship on Saturday throughout history, then I don't see any reason to continue discussion with someone who will deny historical Facts brought before them.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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You said show one person or Group that worshiped on Saturday. That is what I did.

You didn't say i had to agree with everything else they taught or preached.

Now I know that you want to go back on that challenge to say again that there were none that worshiped on Saturday. But unless you can admit now that it is a historical fact that people did indeed worship on Saturday throughout history, then I don't see any reason to continue discussion with someone who will deny historical Facts brought before them.

I can admit there were Sabbatarians sprinkled throughout the Church. So I will clarify my question. Can you point to people who deliberately rejected Sunday worship as being evil?
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Quote any of these that said the Mark of the beast was Sunday worship.

The Waldensians are closer to modern Protestantism yet they emerge extremely late on the historical scene and had little impact.

The Albigensians or Cathars were gnostic heretics who you really don't want to defend as they denied marriage and sexual relations, denied the incarnation of Christ, rejected the God of the Old Testament and held other bizarre beliefs none of us would take seriously.

Also, since you quoted wikipedia, here is what it says about Abba Ewostatewos: Ewostatewos view of the Sabbath was that it should be observed on both Saturday (the Lesser Sabbath) and Sunday (the Great Sabbath): Saturday for the original Sabbath of the Old Testament and Sunday in honour of the resurrection of Christ in the New.

Not exactly someone who would call Sunday worship evil or the Mark of the beast.
I've studied each of those groups and agree with some of what they say that can be shown in the bible and disagree with other things. But unlike the Catholic Church I would try to reason with them and consider all they said comparing it to the word of the Lord(as I have already).

As I said you demanded proof of people keeping the Sabbath day, your claim was that nobody ever did before the 18th century and after the Apostles. I have shown that statement to be false simply by looking through history.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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I can admit there were Sabbatarians sprinkled throughout the Church. So I will clarify my position. Can you point to people who deliberately rejected Sunday worship as being evil?
Sunday worship in the place of Christ's holy Sabbath day Saturday was condemned by the Apostles the Waldensians and others that I have already mentioned.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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I've studied each of those groups and agree with some of what they say that can be shown in the bible and disagree with other things. But unlike the Catholic Church I would try to reason with them and consider all they said comparing it to the word of the Lord(as I have already).

I must say, i wouldn't be that generous to the Cathars given the nature of their beliefs. They didn't even believe in the Old Testament.

When you use the term Catholic Church, are you using that to describe all the major Churches before the reformation or only the Western Church? You are aware there were Churches outside of western Europe right?
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Sunday worship in the place of Christ's holy Sabbath day Saturday was condemned by the Apostles the Waldensians and others that I have already mentioned.

Please give a quote by the Waldensians showing they considered Sunday Worship the Mark of the beast then.
 
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Not David

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I said the bible is the whole truth and the fullness of the Gospel and traditions of Christ. That is what I said. Because that is what the bible says.

You asked "First answer where in the Bible say that everything has to be in the Bible."

And I showed you every place(that i could find) that says they preached the fullness of doctrine and traditions of Christ we have no need of any outside source that originates and is based outside of the bible and it's traditions and doctrine.
Except the books of the Bible, since there was no table of content.
 
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