Is the kingdom of heaven in our universe?

[hedrick]

It does not change the fact that His Kingdom is not of this world.

Be a bit careful of John 18:36. The Jesus' kingdom is not "ek" this world. Ek typically means from, though one meaning is "a marker of that of which something consists—‘in, of, consisting of.’" (Louw and Nida) Jesus' rule is from God. It's not like Caesar's rule, which is established by men using force. But that doesn't mean Jesus isn't king of this world.

 

[d taylor]

It does not change the fact that His Kingdom is not of this world.

So you believe that to be true during the 1000 year millennium

 

[ViaCrucis]

God is on throne literally above ur head with Jesus

Well that can't be true, because if I'm located in the northern hemisphere, and someone else is located in the southern hemisphere, and we are at different longitudes--so it's day for me but night for him--then "above our head" are very different things. A straight line beginning from the top of my head and ascending upward continuously will never intersect with a line beginning from the top of someone else's head somewhere else on the globe.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[timothyu]

What's behind the scroll/curtain?

Reality?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Be a bit careful of John 18:36. The Jesus' kingdom is not "ek" this world. Ek typically means from, though one meaning is "a marker of that of which something consists—‘in, of, consisting of.’" (Louw and Nida) Jesus' rule is from God. It's not like Caesar's rule, which is established by men using force. But that doesn't mean Jesus isn't king of this world.

His Kingdom works in this world but is not of this world. It is from another realm what we call Heaven.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So you believe that to be true during the 1000 year millennium

I am Amillinial.

 

[timothyu]

Many people, especially Americans, have an aversion to the idea of a king, so often overlook that kingdom also means governance, to rule over.

 

[PaulCyp1]

No, it is not. Universes come into existence, and eventually fade out of existence., like all natural things. Heaven is eternal, will never come to an end.

 

[Religiot]

Where is heaven?

Above, literally, just look up: it's like an ocean, dark, but full of creatures we cannot see, unless we descend, only then will we find creatures of light, some terrible, some very nice.

Is it a place or a state of being etc?

A place, comprised of those who are beings of love; thus it is within us, waiting for the command from above.

Where is Jesus' physical body residing right now?

In heaven, with His Father, next to Him, waiting.

Does the Father choose a physical form or does he just communicate through Christ in heaven?

The Father is not physical in form, but specifically Spirit, thus His physical manifestation was indeed through His Son, for God cannot be seen, because He is Spirit.

Will he just be present in our abiding souls?

In the presence of Christ, is to be in the presence of God, for Christ is God revealed in flesh, literally: the only way to see the invisible God is through His physical Son, Christ.

 

[Benjamin Joseph]

Wasn't quite sure where to ask this question but.........

Christ's physical body ascended to heaven. Did he go to a different plane of existence or did he rise to a place in the universe we haven't learned how to reach?

It seems like when the Bible was written, heaven was just up in the clouds stars/constellations etc. Hell was just considered down below I guess.

The Zoroastrians were able to predict the time and place of Christ's birth using astronomy. There may be some lost knowledge about how the universe works out there. As the ancient libraries of the world digitize their stock, new information is constantly being found about all kinds of topics. So many ancient libraries were raised to the ground even back in the days B.C. I'm sure we have lost some insightful information over the millennia.

It just made me wonder what my fellow Christians have heard or read that can shed light on the questions at hand.

Where is heaven? Is it a place or a state of being etc? Where is Jesus' physical body residing right now? Does the Father choose a physical form or does he just communicate through Christ in heaven? Will he just be present in our abiding souls?

I feel like that kid asking impossible questions in Sunday school.

"The Zoroastrians were able to predict the time and place of Christ's birth using astronomy"
That was divination! an evil thing like sorcery, as stated in Deuteronomy.

I have a feeling that Heaven is vibrating on some much higher sorts of wavelengths that are invisible to us now. That is as far as I can try to understand it now, with my limited knowledge.
God is has all that kind of knowledge. We can only guess for now.

I believe YHWH/Jesus Christ is already in those places in the future now, maybe working with previous dimensions of reality that have occurred before this current state of affairs, right now, and today, as we know it...
I believe even the Millennial Kingdom will be vibrating on much different wavelengths in a 1000 year time-frame in the deep future after the ruins of the armaggeddon are long buried by volcanic ash and refreshed soil.
I think God knows more about science than humans ever will, so its best to leave it all up to HIM, because HE is thee only one that can truly do it right.

Matthew 5:8 says "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.".
So yes, I believe God's people will see HIM! and Jesus too, but God's Holy Spirit will remain a spirit like it is now.

 

[rturner76]

While the discussion is responding to what the OP was probably thinking about, I have to protest the way the question was worded. The "Kingdom of heaven" is by definition on earth. First, Matthew is following Jewish convention, in which one avoids saying God. "Heaven" was commonly used as a placeholder for God. The other Gospels use the phrase "Kingdom of God" in exactly the same contexts. It means God's rule. Jesus says it's his purpose to bring it, and the Lord's prayer asks us to pray for it to come.

The "Kingdom of God" is really God's rule. Of course, God rules in "heaven" (whatever that is -- and that's what the discussion has been). When Jesus talks about the Kingdom of God he's talking about bringing God's rule about on earth. That's what Christians are challenged to do.

I get it, I used the wrong words. I meant the heaven Jesus ascended to where he sits at the right hand of the Father. That's the place I'm talking about. Does heaven exist yet? Something like we are brought forward to the time when God rules the Earth or we sleep until that time and are then resurrected in the New Kingdom of God on Earth?

 

[rturner76]

"The Zoroastrians were able to predict the time and place of Christ's birth using astronomy"
That was divination! an evil thing like sorcery, as stated in Deuteronomy.

I have a feeling that Heaven is vibrating on some much higher sorts of wavelengths that are invisible to us now. That is as far as I can try to understand it now, with my limited knowledge.
God is has all that kind of knowledge. We can only guess for now.

I believe YHWH/Jesus Christ is already in those places in the future now, maybe working with previous dimensions of reality that have occurred before this current state of affairs, right now, and today, as we know it...
I believe even the Millennial Kingdom will be vibrating on much different wavelengths in a 1000 year time-frame in the deep future after the ruins of the armaggeddon are long buried by volcanic ash and refreshed soil. The radiation and elemental/chemical concentrations/atmospheric pressure will have drastically changed, creating or allowing for a "plane of higher existence" in a sense. I believe this sort of radioactive and elemental phase shift will enable bodies to become something much more than "science" is currently in witness of, since we are outside the bounds of it. Higher states of being only now seem to us like something we can describe as "magical" or "spirit"-like, but are in fact very scientifically deep. Cells in a "glorified body" might rejuvenate or replenish themselves at much higher rates or something like that. And food from earth that "yields it's strength" once again to us might contain these higher concentrations of elements and even other new elements (or some that are currently hidden to us) so it would have a similar "super" effect on a body.
I think God knows more about science than humans ever will, so its best to leave it all up to HIM, because HE is thee only one that can truly do it right.

Matthew 5:8 says "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.".
So yes, I believe God's people will see HIM! and Jesus too, but God's Holy Spirit will remain a spirit like it is now.

You description of the New Kingdom reminds me of a recreation of the garden of Eden. I tend to lean toward this theory you have written because that would explain why Adam lived for hundreds of years. That regeneration and the super nutritious food in the garden could have fortified the first generations, allowing then to live super long lives. I'm sure the atmosphere was different also, rich in oxygen or even some other compound that is now gone.

Very logical and true that our limited science can't explain any of this. Only God knows.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Nothing in the Bible says the earth is flat

Scripture is good for reproof and correction.
240 Flat Earth Bible Verses

belief in a fixed planet is required.

Please, 'fixed planet' is an oxymoron. Don't believe on earthly things, how then will ye believe on heavenly things?

And there is plenty of evidence that the earth is a round, spinning globe that orbits the sun.

Scripture? Science?

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (Job 38:4)

Who are you going to believe, the creator of the world or the purveyors of junk science?

 

[rturner76]

Who are you going to believe, the creator of the world or the purveyors of junk science?

I usually believe my eyes, and my eyes have seen footage of the Earth and galaxy. I believe the Bible on spiritual and behavioral matters but for physics, chemistry, and biology, I believe modern science.

An example of junk science would be the flat Earth theory. God created all things including the scientific method.

 

[timothyu]

That was divination! an evil thing like sorcery, as stated in Deuteronomy.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I usually believe my eyes, and my eyes have seen footage of the Earth and galaxy.

I've got photos of Santa Claus and the outer cluster, taken from a giant space telescope and an orbiting space station that's never had a gasket replaced in over 20 years.

I believe the Bible on spiritual and behavioral matters but for physics, chemistry, and biology, I believe modern science.

So you reject Biblical teachings on earthly matters which conflict with the unproven assumptions that fill your 'secular' textbooks.

According to Michiu Kaku modern cosmological theory is out by a factor of 1^120, the greatest mismatch between theory and reality in the history of science. Paradigm problem perhaps?

You really should consider doing some actual research rather than engaging in vain speculations and oppositions of science falsely so-called.

 

[rturner76]

I've got photos of Santa Claus and the outer cluster, taken from a giant space telescope and an orbiting space station that's never had a gasket replaced in over 20 years.



So you reject Biblical teachings on earthly matters which conflict with the unproven assumptions that fill your 'secular' textbooks.

According to Michiu Kaku modern cosmological theory is out by a factor of 1^120, the greatest mismatch between theory and reality in the history of science. Paradigm problem perhaps?

You really should consider doing some actual research rather than engaging in vain speculations and oppositions of science falsely so-called.

I think you should take your own advice and research space exploration. Man has been to the moon and there are thousands of satellites that transmit real time information.

The Bible doesn't teach science, it tells stories and gives instructions.

To say that satellite images of Earth and the galaxy and "unproven assumptions" is hilarious.

It's ok to believe in science and God. God created science. The laws of physics, biology, chemistry, and the natural world were all created by God.

It's time to wake up and smell reality. Stop believing in a flat Earth. There is absolutely no proven science that proves there is a flat Earth. We have the technology to orbit the Earth.

Do you really believe there has been a massive conspiracy since the 1960s to falsify pictures, radar, and live video of the Earth in it's orbit around the sun. Why is it that we have every measurement of time and distance between the Earth's surface and orbit and there is no live video or photography, let alone accurate measurement of our "flat earth"?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I think you should take your own advice and research space exploration. Man has been to the moon and there are thousands of satellites that transmit real time information.

The Bible doesn't teach science, it tells stories and gives instructions.

To say that satellite images of Earth and the galaxy and "unproven assumptions" is hilarious.

It's ok to believe in science and God. God created science. The laws of physics, biology, chemistry, and the natural world were all created by God.

It's time to wake up and smell reality. Stop believing in a flat Earth. There is absolutely no proven science that proves there is a flat Earth. We have the technology to orbit the Earth.

Do you really believe there has been a massive conspiracy since the 1960s to falsify pictures, radar, and live video of the Earth in it's orbit around the sun. Why is it that we have every measurement of time and distance between the Earth's surface and orbit and there is no live video or photography, let alone accurate measurement of our "flat earth"?

Follow Ba'al then. Just remember you can't eat at both the table of angels and demons.

 

[steppinrazor]

You are way, way off base and you don't even know it. Your thoughts are merely the ramblings of non-sensical rhetoric that unintelligent people have repeated over and over again. This is a Christian forum that discusses Christian belief and ideas, but your ramblings about following a devil because people KNOW something to be true is...well....confusing. People know truths. Truths and facts are easy to find and hard to prove wrong. The facts about the round earth are easy to prove and hard to prove wrong. The idea tha the earth is flat is silly, bogus nonsense. Let's discuss God's kingdom on heaven and speculate on what it means to die and go to heaven. But please, let's not accuse someone of following a devil because of what they know to be true.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

You are way, way off base and you don't even know it. Your thoughts are merely the ramblings of non-sensical rhetoric that unintelligent people have repeated over and over again. This is a Christian forum that discusses Christian belief and ideas, but your ramblings about following a devil because people KNOW something to be true is...well....confusing. People know truths. Truths and facts are easy to find and hard to prove wrong. The facts about the round earth are easy to prove and hard to prove wrong. The idea tha the earth is flat is silly, bogus nonsense. Let's discuss God's kingdom on heaven and speculate on what it means to die and go to heaven. But please, let's not accuse someone of following a devil because of what they know to be true.

No accusations, just paths, as per a little book some like to call 'the Bible'.

Any scriptural support for a spinning waterball precessing and nutating through heliocentric near-infinite big bang space? No, but plenty of scriptures teaching a flat, motionless and enclosed earth under heaven.

So what's the idea, accept the fairy tales and code of conduct so you can get the best life now and the fire insurance later?