Is the Holy Spirit an Author of Confusion?

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chestertonrules

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WHOSE holiness? men are not holy. the only thing that makes us holy, righteous, is our standing with Christ.

Exactly.

Does striving for holiness impact our standing with Christ?

How about obeying his commandments?

John 15
9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.
 
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Uphill Battle

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Exactly.

Does striving for holiness impact our standing with Christ?

How about obeying his commandments?

John 15
9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.
now you're just sounding like a broken record.
 
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Uphill Battle

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In other words, you don't have an answer.

Fine.
sure I do. But at this point, we are going around in a loop. You'll just trot out your "I'm Catholic so I'm right" attitude over and over, and nothing will be gained by it.


Look. We are to obey. None of us fully do. There is not one. The bible says so. Even Christians, who are striving to follow Christ, will disobey him from time to time! Your ruberic on the whole thing, is if you fail in this, too bad for you. Christ says that if you don't hit the mark on everything, off to hell you go!

this is foolishness. The bible is rife with examples. Men who have done little or no works, but repent, going to heaven (Thief on the cross.) Men denying their Lord (the apostles ran, Peter cursed that he never knew him!) and being restored. If you read the letters to the christians, I.E. Pauline letters etc... you get a very distinct picture painted. Obey. There is trouble if you do not obey. but NOWHERE does he address people who are in disobedence as lacking in salvation. He addresses them as saints, and calls them so! Even when upbraiding them for sin amongst them. Even the man sleeping with his stepmother! He doesn't even condemn him to the fiery end that you have in mind for everyone not tiptoeing down the Catholic line of faith! He says to cast him out, so that his flesh may be destroyed, and his soul saved!

on top of which, you who hold the "work or perish" attitude consistantly and constantly ignore the passage "his works will be burned, and he will suffer loss, but HE WILL BE SAVED." passage.

there are two losses for our disobedience. disobeying God to the point of eternal death, is rejecting Christ. Not placing your faith in him

the other loss, is loss of reward. Me, I think salvation is reward enough for us sinful folk, but God seems to see fit to give more. hence, passages such as the one above, where he says , hey, work, look at what happens to you when you don't"

NOT "go to hell."
just "you have forfieted your rewards." I don't know what they are, but anything from God has to be a good thing.

James hilights that a faith that PRODUCES no works, isn't justafiable. Our faith is justified (proven as true) by our works. It is not maintained by them!

you're picture of God is the picture of a God who takes a gift, and gives it to you. Free gift! then waits for you to screw up so he can snatch it back from you.

that isn't God. That's the devil.
 
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chestertonrules

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Look. We are to obey. None of us fully do. There is not one. The bible says so. Even Christians, who are striving to follow Christ, will disobey him from time to time! Your ruberic on the whole thing, is if you fail in this, too bad for you.

We know we will fail. You keep changing the subject and ignoring the scripture I post.

With man, it is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

We must obey, we must strive, we must love and forgive others, and we must love God.

These are commandments.

These are not suggestions. Why do you insist that they are unnecessary?
 
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chestertonrules

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who said they were unneccessary? I've explained what I meant in the post that you likely just skimmed through so that you could post your glib response.


You did.

because our faith is justified (I.E. proved as real) through our works, however, it has nothing to do with our endurance.

IF it has nothing to do with our endurance, then I assume you mean it was unnecessary.


I don't think there is a huge disagreement here.

I think we agree that we must follow the commands of Jesus to the best or our ability using the grace of God.
 
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Uphill Battle

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except that YOU think if we fail, we get pitched out of grace until such time as you manage to get back on your feet.

I disagree on that.

but thanks again for ignoring my post, and just continuing to say the same thing over and over. It's good to know some things stay the same.
 
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chestertonrules

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except that YOU think if we fail, we get pitched out of grace until such time as you manage to get back on your feet.

I disagree on that.

but thanks again for ignoring my post, and just continuing to say the same thing over and over. It's good to know some things stay the same.

If we willfully sin against God and have no remorse, then we are not abiding in Christ.

It's that simple, and it's biblical.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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who said they were unneccessary? I've explained what I meant in the post that you likely just skimmed through so that you could post your glib response.
Catholics are trained to do that :)

Luke 21:24 And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations and Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.

Reve 13:10 If any into captivity, into captivity he is led away. If any in sword to be killed, is binding them in sword to be killed. Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints. [Luke 21:24]
 
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squint

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your picture of God is the picture of a God who takes a gift, and gives it to you. Free gift! then waits for you to screw up so he can snatch it back from you.

that isn't God. That's the devil.

That's about the most truthful statement I've read here in quite some time.

enjoy!

squint
 
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Uphill Battle

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Sure it does. You're God concept has grace on a yo-yo string. Now you have it, now you don't. Don't mess up, or you have to grovel to get the free gift back. It's a free gift, but you have to pay dividends on the gift to keep it.

kinda like those cellphone deals where they give you a free phone, then hit you with hidden charges in your contract.

I've always imagined God as a lot less... sleazy than that.
 
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squint

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The gift is grace.

If we don't use it, it doesn't mean God has taken the gift back.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Any believers in the house????

You who find ETERNAL DEATH/TORTURE to your fellow man are "under the influence."

enjoy!

squint
 
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chestertonrules

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Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

How about these?

Matthew 25
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 
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squint

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Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

How about these?

Matthew 25
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

WHO is WITH MANKIND? WHO did Jesus SEPARATE from MANKIND the LAST TIME around? scratch scratch...wonder wonder???

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink

Genesis 3:14
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed

Man shall LIVE by EVERY WORD of God.

enjoy!

squint
 
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chestertonrules

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Is the Holy Spirit an Author of Confusion?

...nope. It's just that most Christians are too confused to hear Him correctly. :)


Which is why Jesus founded a church which the Holy Spirit would lead in all truth, imo!
 
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zeke37

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forgive me....did Christ have those traditions of man that your denomination has today? Did Christ deify His mother?

huge reasons why, no matter if it is called the universal church or not, that I do not belong RCC anymore...

Christ did not found the RCC...He started the church...big differance.
 
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