Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

[SelfSim]

Consider me nitpicked.

Better than being henpecked!

 

[chad kincham]

Are you able to actually present a metric and an objective method for measuring complex and/or specified information?

Or are they still synonymous with gut feelings and religious conviction?

Bill Gates of Microsoft fame knows a fair amount about computers and software programs, and has said that DNA is like a computer program, only far, far more advanced.

Computer programs can’t write themselves, as everyone knows.

Professor A E Wilder-smith with three earned doctorates in chemistry, still has lectures and books available online wherein he shows that DNA consists of complex information, and that there is no natural mechanism whatsoever that can create and write information.

 

[Shemjaza]

Bill Gates of Microsoft fame knows a fair amount about computers and software programs, and has said that DNA is like a computer program, only far, far more advanced.

Computer programs can’t write themselves, as everyone knows.

Professor A E Wilder-smith with three earned doctorates in chemistry, still has lectures and books available online wherein he shows that DNA consists of complex information, and that there is no natural mechanism whatsoever that can create and write information.

So... no, no and no.

ID seems to still be nonsense and will stay nonsense until it has any scientific rigor applied.

 

[Bradskii]

Professor A E Wilder-smith with three earned doctorates in chemistry, still has lectures and books available online wherein he shows that DNA consists of complex information, and that there is no natural mechanism whatsoever that can create and write information.

So for your information about dna, you don't bother with biologists or geneticists you go straight to someone who works in pharmocology. Who happens to be a creationist.

And didn't we see that complexity arises naturally?

You have to do better, Chad.

 

[SelfSim]

Computer programs can’t write themselves, as everyone knows.
..
DNA consists of complex information, and that there is no natural mechanism whatsoever that can create and write information.

In collective autocatalytic sets (abiogenesis):

i) small protein#1 catalyses the formation of protein #2 from protein #2 parts and;
ii) small protein#2 catalyses the formation of protein #1 from protein #1 parts.
iii) Nothing catalyses its own formation.

It is simply irrelevant to model abiogenesis development on 'programs writing themselves'.
This is a completely false analogy, (ie: a false assumption), about how autocatalytic sets behave in abiogenesis hypotheses.

 

[SelfSim]

What happens following steps (i) to (iii) in post #1624, is that a much larger collective autocatalytic set emerges spontaneously as a phase transition. (This is called 'constraint closure’, which is more or less historically analogous in meaning with the more mystic term: ‘life force’ .. as metabolism forms from sets with subsets within them, catalysing shorter parts of ever lengthening and ligating molecules).

What all this means is that:
-molecular reproduction simply need not be based on template replicating RNA .. (that claim is outright false).
Template replication from an RNA 'information' source, may be one way to molecular reproduction .. but it is not a necessary way. There is no 'programmer' of the template. It forms as the most stable/efficient set .. consuming the available resources of 'the soup' .. creating its own niche .. and continues replicating and becoming more complex.

 

[Frank Robert]

Absolutely wrong.

It is a four letter coded programming language containing complex and specified information, just like Windows 10 is, and both can only come from intelligence, from a mind.

You are peddling a false analogy with superficial similarities. Cells are not computers and DNA is not a computer program.

 

[Frank Robert]

As if there were references.

When they do not supply a reference it is fair to assume that the claim was made up and therefore not true.

 

[Astrid]

When they do not supply a reference it is fair to assume that the claim was made up and therefore not true.

As Jerry Garcia put it, "the cards ain't worth a dime if you don't
put them down."

 

[Frank Robert]

Absolutely wrong.

It is a four letter coded programming language containing complex and specified information, just like Windows 10 is, and both can only come from intelligence, from a mind.

There is NO natural mechanism that can write or create information.

DNA simply contains recipes for building proteins, and it contains templates for RNA molecules that regulate the production of proteins.

 

[Frank Robert]

deleted

 

[Mr Laurier]

Absolutely wrong.

It is a four letter coded programming language containing complex and specified information, just like Windows 10 is, and both can only come from intelligence, from a mind.

There is NO natural mechanism that can write or create information.

Waves sort pebble on a beach, with no gods to help them.

 

[Mr Laurier]

And what do you see here?

We'll skip the appreciation (I'll consider the source) ... just show me your understanding.

An edited version of an edited version of a collection of myths legends, fairy tales, and priestly self justifications.

 

[AV1611VET]

An edited version of an edited version of a collection of myths legends, fairy tales, and priestly self justifications.

Then Estrid's remark can take a hike.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Then Estrid's remark can take a hike.

Why?

 

[Astrid]

Waves sort pebble on a beach, with no gods to help them.

Seems that the flow of energy through any system will tend to
organize it.

Meanwhile, " complex specified information" spoken without
understanding works like a macic spell, like "open sedamie"
( is dated maybe to " open_ sesamie" ) works great.

It makes creos think they've slain the bete noir of Evolution.

 

[AV1611VET]

It makes creos think they've slain the bete noir of Evolution.

QV please:

Not this creationist:

1. Genesis 1 pwns evolution.
2. Genesis 1:1 pwns atheism.
3. Genesis 1:1a --- (first four words of the Bible) --- pwns abiogenesis.

 

[chad kincham]

You are peddling a false analogy with superficial similarities. Cells are not computers and DNA is not a computer program.

No, it’s a complex biological programming code language that is the operating system that runs cells, and not an inorganic electronic computer programming code language , but the analogy is right on the money - as has been stated by many people, such as those researching how to synthesize DNA and reprogram a cell, by inserting a new gene sequence into a cell to make it do something new.

Computers use a two letter binary programming code language that runs hardware, and cells are run by a four letter programming code - both contain specified complex information that takes intelligence and a mind to write.

 

[chad kincham]

DNA simply contains recipes for building proteins, and it contains templates for RNA molecules that regulate the production of proteins.

Recipes also require a mind and intelligence to write out the series of steps that must be performed to create a meal - so your little analogy disproves absolutely nothing.

 

[Shemjaza]

No, it’s a complex biological programming code language that is the operating system that runs cells, and not an inorganic electronic computer programming code language , but the analogy is right on the money - as has been stated by many people, such as those researching how to synthesize DNA and reprogram a cell, by inserting a new gene sequence into a cell to make it do something new.

Computers use a two letter binary programming code language that runs hardware, and cells are run by a four letter programming code - both contain specified complex information that takes intelligence and a mind to write.

"specified complex information"

Still haven't defined those terms in a useful fashion. Metric? Objective method of measurement?