Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

[Astrid]

I'm not anti science. But we are no where near getting there by science, which refuses to consider the possibility of divine intervention, let alone divine design at every step. it's like trying to put a puzzle together while missing the biggest piece.

By what do you determine this "refuse to consider"?

I dont think that is accurate, at all.
The nature of research is to be extremely rigorous
(let's not derail with exceptions)
Blithely ignoring, hand waving ideas is antiscience.
(See those who hand wave evolution and deep time)

The problem about trying to incorporate " divine" this
or that into any theory is that to date, there is not one
datum point on planet earth indicating such
a thing even exists, still less what it does.

Keep in mind that this gets into 'proof of god", widely
held to be impossible AND, that with proof, Faith
becomes meaningless.

I am confident that if Bigfoot turns out to be pivotal
in any science, that he will be afforded his place.
As of now, Bigfoot occupies the same space as god
in science- possible but zero evidence.
Awful hard to incorporate something that has no known
properties and to date has all the symptoms of not existing at all.

As for God intervening, say in evolution, that's like a semi- omni
who has to tinker, could not set things up to run themselves.

Like he has to instruct a waterfall how to form
and behave! Or anything else ftm.
Ridiculous.

Whether "god" is the "biggest piece" is an opinion, not a fact.

Ifn he is, going by experience, we won't ever know, so...
what, exactly, would you have science do about "god " as
related to resesrch?

 

[Astrid]

I've never seen a machine of any sort build itself. I can't even get a light switch to repair itself... but I'm supposed to believe that DNA, which is infinitely more complex formed itself by random processes?
That's ridiculous.

A lot of things can be made to look silly with silly analogies.

And a lot of things sound ridiculous to those who don't understand them.

May we guess that you did not major in chemistry?

 

[Larniavc]

I've never seen a machine of any sort build itself. I can't even get a light switch to repair itself... but I'm supposed to believe that DNA, which is infinitely more complex formed itself by random processes?
That's ridiculous.

Just to clarify: something is designed if it can build itself but if it cannot it is not designed?

 

[Larniavc]

Funny how kids have no problem believing in God, but adults who should know better talk themselves out of it.

Yeah, but kids will believe anything. Because they don’t know any better.

 

[AV1611VET]

The problem about trying to incorporate " divine" this or that into any theory is that to date, there is not one datum point in planet earth indicating such
a thing even exists,

You're correct. There is not one datum point -- there's a slew of datum points:

1. Time divided into BC and AD.
2. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.
3. Hospitals built by Christian organizations.
4. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.
5. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.
6. The Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public.
7. Christmas & Easter
8. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags.
9. Public debates in the name of Christianity.
10. Crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ.

And before you invoke diabolical mimicry to claim other religions have their datum points, let me point out that, if none of these others existed, God would still have the above list going for Him.

We have dollar bills because the Department of the Treasury exists.

We do not have pounds sterling because the Department of the Treasury exists.

... still less what it does.

I thought you said you read the Bible? if so, you should know what "it" [sic] does.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, but kids will believe anything. Because they don’t know any better.

And adults think they know better, but don't.

 

[Larniavc]

And adults think they know better, but don't.

I think it’s safe to say (in general) that adults know better than kids about reality.

 

[Tinker Grey]

"Into"

Funny how kids have no problem believing in Santa ...

 

[Speedwell]

You're correct. There is not one datum point -- there's a slew of datum points:

1. Time divided into BC and AD.
2. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.
3. Hospitals built by Christian organizations.
4. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.
5. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.
6. The Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public.
7. Christmas & Easter
8. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags.
9. Public debates in the name of Christianity.
10. Crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ.

And before you invoke diabolical mimicry to claim other religions have their datum points, let me point out that, if none of these others existed, God would still have the above list going for Him.

We have dollar bills because the Department of the Treasury exists.

We do not have pounds sterling because the Department of the Treasury exists.I thought you said you read the Bible? if so, you should know what "it" [sic] does.

Those are all evidence of belief, not of God. Is God like Tinker Belle, and only exists because we believe in Him?

 

[AV1611VET]

I think it’s safe to say (in general) that adults know better than kids about reality.

I'd rather be a child that believes in God, than an adult that doesn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Funny how kids have no problem believing in Santa ...

Did they create Santa on paper, then believe in him?

Have you ever seen Santa Claus compared to Jesus Christ?

That list is a real eye-opener.

 

[renniks]

As for God intervening, say in evolution, that's like a semi- omni
who has to tinker, could not set things up to run themselves.

Intervening? No, creating the entire process of creation isn't intervening!
Run themselves? Lol, that's hilarious. No machine runs itself without a creator and maintenance.

 

[Astrid]

I think it’s safe to say (in general) that adults know better than kids about reality.

Our friend made the opposite point to what was intended

 

[renniks]

A lot of things can be made to look silly with silly analogies.

And a lot of things sound ridiculous to those who don't understand them.

May we guess that you did not major in chemistry?

Same old insulting atheists. Nothing new to see here.

 

[renniks]

Yeah, but kids will believe anything. Because they don’t know any better.

They believe in God because they haven't yet been corrupted by cynicism.

 

[Speedwell]

Intervening? No, creating the entire process of creation isn't intervening!
Run themselves? Lol, that's hilarious. No machine runs itself without a creator and maintenance.

How does that change the science involved? The main tenet of the kind of creationism we are talking about here is that science is wrong, even an outright lie. How is it wrong?

 

[dlamberth]

I'm not anti science. But we are no where near getting there by science, which refuses to consider the possibility of divine intervention, let alone divine design at every step. it's like trying to put a puzzle together while missing the biggest piece.

That's not where science is suppose to go, nor should it go. For any kind of Creation story we have all we need in the Earth itSelf.

 

[renniks]

Just to clarify: something is designed if it can build itself but if it cannot it is not designed?

Show me a complex machine that builds itself. You have iron ore in the Earth. Surely it can grind itself some gears and a chain and a bicycle can be found growing for the picking.
Yet the material that composes our bodies is made up of tiny machines within machines within machines within machines. And it just grew itself from nothing...

 

[dlamberth]

Intervening? No, creating the entire process of creation isn't intervening!
Run themselves? Lol, that's hilarious. No machine runs itself without a creator and maintenance.

Life is not a machine anymore than you or I are a machine.

 

[dlamberth]

Yet the material that composes our bodies is made up of tiny machines within machines within machines within machines. And it just grew itself from nothing...

We aren't machines. We are Life Forms! There is a vast difference.