Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

[mont974x4]

well OK then.

I truly pray He richly blesses you.
Jay

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So an angel from heaven screaming at the top of His lungs is no warning to you?

Is he screaming at the church?

 

[mont974x4]

I wonder where "saying in a loud voice" suddenly became screaming at the top of his lungs?

 

[visionary]

I wonder where "saying in a loud voice" suddenly became screaming at the top of his lungs?

Just thought the visual would help get your attention to re-read all the loud voiced angels in Revelation... and what each message is... because they seem to go together so well... "Get out, be not a partaker, don't worship the beast, worship the creator..." Run them all together and they give us the end time warnings.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

Heymikey80, IF? If a frog had wings, if a pig could fly if if if ect. ect.ect.

hey ThomasDa,if Paul said every day was the same and that the Sabbaths were shadows of things to come,if if if etc. etc. etc.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

I keep the Sabbath the way Jesus, Paul, and the disciples did. I rest. Notice that they met on Sunday for fellowship, instruction, etc. The reason is that they rested on the sabbath. Why would Jesus do God's work on the sabbath if God himself was resting from all his work.

1. John 20:19
   Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
2. Acts 20:7
   And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The commanded assembly on the seventh day was an old covenant ordinance. There is no such ordinance in the new covenant. However all would have kept the old covenant laws while the temple and Levitical priesthood existed. This would have included traditional rituals as well.

owg

only thing I've read Jesus and his Apostles doing on a Sabbath was Teaching,Healing,and plucking grain.Paul is only mentioned teaching in the synagogues and teaching some others (in your passage) because he was leaving the next day.never saw the word "rest'.
we assume they did but in Pauls case who knows,being he was the Apostle to the Gentiles,and became all things to all men.
you mention you observe the Sabbaths in the same way they did.....

 

[PattyOfurniture]

Is the fourth commandment done away with?


NO!!!

probably not,but lets make sure.can you help me and find a verse in the NT that mentions Sabbath-breaking as sin?the NT mentions so many different sins specifically so I'm sure by your emphatic "NO!" answer you've seen a verse stating its a sin to break the Sabbath

 

[mont974x4]

Just thought the visual would help get your attention to re-read all the loud voiced angels in Revelation... and what each message is... because they seem to go together so well... "Get out, be not a partaker, don't worship the beast, worship the creator..." Run them all together and they give us the end time warnings.

That's fine, it still doesn't make the sabbath a commandment to the NT church

 

[PattyOfurniture]

That's fine, it still doesn't make the sabbath a commandment to the NT church

short n sweet(and true)....lol

 

[mont974x4]

short n sweet(and true)....lol

well I usually try to just get the point. lol

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Deleted double post.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

only thing I've read Jesus and his Apostles doing on a Sabbath was Teaching,Healing,and plucking grain.Paul is only mentioned teaching in the synagogues and teaching some others (in your passage) because he was leaving the next day.never saw the word "rest'.
we assume they did but in Pauls case who knows,being he was the Apostle to the Gentiles,and became all things to all men.
you mention you observe the Sabbaths in the same way they did.....

You are correct. I misspoke a little there.

But my point is that the usual/traditional sabbath/synaguoge meetings only lasted while the Levitical priesthood was in force and the temple stood. Their destruction ended the ritual worship that included many traditional sabbath activities. That's why I ask the question, "What are the new covenant sabbath 'rules' for christians?" That the sabbath is still 'in force' implies that there are rules, rituals, and consequences for not observing it properly.

Jesus did reveal a new understanding of sabbath behavior. He seems to be treating it much like any other day; traveling, harvesting food, making himself available for good deeds, teaching, etc. His activities on that day were not constained by rituals or extraneous rules.

I too 'remember' the sabbath, but I don't attend a 'holy convocation', sacrifice animals, abstain from cooking, etc. It is 'holy' time that was sanctified for my benefit. I wasn't sanctified in order to fit into a particular pattern of behavior or action that are required on this day. On this day I am free from the world, my work, my problems, etc. God has given me the day off to rest, refresh, clear my mind, enjoy my life apart from worldly cares, and meditate on higher things.

Although not in a church group at present I would certainly like to fellowship on the sabbath with others believers, but not as a matter of 'law'.

owg

 

[dvd_holc]

You'll have to prove that the sabbath was recommanded to gentile believers and the NT church like the other 9 are.


You'll also have to reconcile your view with the verses that show us freedom regarding the issue.

Isaiah 56:

1 This is what the Lord says: "Maintain justice and do what is right, for my salvation is close at hand and my righteousness will soon be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, the man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the Lord say, "The Lord will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree." 4 For this is what the Lord says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-- 5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off. 6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to serve him, to love the name of the Lord, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-- 7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations." 8 The Sovereign Lord declares-- he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."

 

[mont974x4]

Isaiah 56:

1 This is what the Lord says: "Maintain justice and do what is right, for my salvation is close at hand and my righteousness will soon be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, the man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the Lord say, "The Lord will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree." 4 For this is what the Lord says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-- 5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off. 6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to serve him, to love the name of the Lord, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-- 7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations." 8 The Sovereign Lord declares-- he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."

Thank God for the cross, huh.


I am the temple, I don't need to go to a special place on a special day to do special ceremonies.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

You are correct. I misspoke a little there.

But my point is that the usual/traditional sabbath/synaguoge meetings only lasted while the Levitical priesthood was in force and the temple stood. Their destruction ended the ritual worship that included many traditional sabbath activities. That's why I ask the question, "What are the new covenant sabbath 'rules' for christians?" That the sabbath is still 'in force' implies that there are rules, rituals, and consequences for not observing it properly.

Jesus did reveal a new understanding of sabbath behavior. He seems to be treating it much like any other day; traveling, harvesting food, making himself available for good deeds, teaching, etc. His activities on that day were not constained by rituals or extraneous rules.

I too 'remember' the sabbath, but I don't attend a 'holy convocation', sacrifice animals, abstain from cooking, etc. It is 'holy' time that was sanctified for my benefit. I wasn't sanctified in order to fit into a particular pattern of behavior or action that are required on this day. On this day I am free from the world, my work, my problems, etc. God has given me the day off to rest, refresh, clear my mind, enjoy my life apart from worldly cares, and meditate on higher things.

Although not in a church group at present I would certainly like to fellowship on the sabbath with others believers, but not as a matter of 'law'.

owg

your answer i think is the Best answer imaginable.
Paul says every day is the same,to one guy Saturday is special.to another guy every day is alike.

 

[dvd_holc]

Thank God for the cross, huh.


I am the temple, I don't need to go to a special place on a special day to do special ceremonies.

Sigh...

 

[elijahorao]

The beautiful 'truth' is that one day we shall all stand before Him Who is The Truth and The Living Word.
I guess some of you will be in a hurry to ask Him why He said "REMEMBER" when realy He meant 'FORGET'? While you are at it, ask Him how come He got all confused and went and put an atonement commandment fair in the middle of the moral law. Oh yes!, one more question you might ask Him.
"Why did you make the sabbath/seventh day holy DURING creation week, BEFORE anyone had sinned when it is all about atonement? AND, why confuse diligent bible scholars by saying "for in six days The Lord created etc" when you did not really want us to 'remember' the seventh day as a creation memorial anyway.
I reckon you will have Jesus really confused with those good questions. I can't wait to hear His answer. Can you?

 

[PattyOfurniture]

The beautiful 'truth' is that one day we shall all stand before Him Who is The Truth and The Living Word.
I guess some of you will be in a hurry to ask Him why He said "REMEMBER" when realy He meant 'FORGET'? While you are at it, ask Him how come He got all confused and went and put an atonement commandment fair in the middle of the moral law. Oh yes!, one more question you might ask Him.
"Why did you make the sabbath/seventh day holy DURING creation week, BEFORE anyone had sinned when it is all about atonement? AND, why confuse diligent bible scholars by saying "for in six days The Lord created etc" when you did not really want us to 'remember' the seventh day as a creation memorial anyway.
I reckon you will have Jesus really confused with those good questions. I can't wait to hear His answer. Can you?

and then we might ask why after Christ was seated at Gods right hand side and the Church was learning the do's and donts whats sin and what is not sin,we were told that if one specific day is special to an individual it was special to him alone,if no day were held as special to another that was okay also because "every day is the same"

 

[elijahorao]

The forum topic? "Is the fourth commandment done away with? "
Let's put the application of 'New heaven&earth' to the test.

Isaiah, chapter 66:1" Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: (Mathew 22:44, Hebrews 1:13 & 10:13, Acts 2:35 & 7:49)where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? (Hebrews 4:4,5)
2: For all those things hath mine hand made, and those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3: He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4: I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
5: Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6: A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7: Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8: Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9: Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10: Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11: That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12: For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13: As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14: And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15: For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with ALL FLESH: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17: They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE"S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse,(in New Earth)shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
18: For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather ALL NATIONS AND TONGUES; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19: And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20: And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21: And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22: For as the NEW HEAVENS and the NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall ALL FLESH come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24: And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. "


The New earth & heavens are often quoted in the NT

2Peter 3:11": Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

"12": Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

"13": Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

"14": Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

"15": And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

"16": As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."



ROMANS 14:1": Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

"2": For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, EATETH HERBS. (this scripture is about vegetarians)

"3": Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

"4": Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

"5": One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Jesus instituted The Lord's supper on passover. This is not about The sabbath, this is about a day where there is confusion over the eating of flesh )

"6": He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

"7": For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

"8": For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

"9": For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

"10": But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

"11": For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. (Isaiah 66:23)

"12": So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

"13": Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

"14": I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

"15": But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

"16": Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

"17": For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (This scripture is about a problemwith vegetarians)

"18": For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

"19": Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

"20": For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. (The 'strong' SHOULD give way)

"21": It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. (context? diet)

"22": Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

"23": And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Why test grace?)

Romans, chapter 15


"1": We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. (see?)

"2": Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

"3": For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

"4": For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. (Paul endorses OT as valuable for learning)

"5": Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

"6": That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"7": Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

"8": Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

"9": And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

"10": And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

"11": And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

"12": And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust


AFTER endorsing the OT Paul quotes Isaiah chapter 42. Read it all, and note the chapter 66 type language here;
17: They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.
18: Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.
19: Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?
20: Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
21: The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, AND MAKE IT HONOURABLE.
22: But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, RESTORE.
23: Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear FOR THE TIME TO COME?
24: Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto HIS LAW.
25: Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart."

 

[elijahorao]

When in doubt we can always look to scriptures for the latter days to get our 'context'