Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

[Iosias]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=14&verse=5&version=kjv#5No way to put a spin on this one,Mate.

You need to look at the context of this verse. Adam Clarke notes correctly:

Rom 14:5 - One man esteemeth one day above another - Perhaps the word ἡμεραν, day, is here taken for time, festival, and such like, in which sense it is frequently used. Reference is made here to the Jewish institutions, and especially their festivals; such as the passover, pentecost, feast of tabernacles, new moons, jubilee, etc. The converted Jew still thought these of moral obligation; the Gentile Christian not having been bred up in this way had no such prejudices. And as those who were the instruments of bringing him to the knowledge of God gave him no such injunctions, consequently he paid to these no religious regard.

Another - The converted Gentile esteemeth every day - considers that all time is the Lord’s, and that each day should be devoted to the glory of God; and that those festivals are not binding on him.
We add here alike, and make the text say what I am sure was never intended, viz. that there is no distinction of days, not even of the Sabbath: and that every Christian is at liberty to consider even this day to be holy or not holy, as he happens to be persuaded in his own mind.

That the Sabbath is of lasting obligation may be reasonably concluded from its institution (see the note on Gen_2:3) and from its typical reference. All allow that the Sabbath is a type of that rest in glory which remains for the people of God. Now, all types are intended to continue in full force till the antitype, or thing signified, take place; consequently, the Sabbath will continue in force till the consummation of all things. The word alike should not be added; nor is it acknowledged by any MS. or ancient version.

Let every man be fully persuaded - With respect to the propriety or non-propriety of keeping the above festivals, let every man act from the plenary conviction of his own mind; there is a sufficient latitude allowed: all may be fully satisfied.

 

[mont974x4]

Romans 14 clearly shows that we have great freedom in this issue.

 

[elijahorao]

hey,
when i was studying wwcg material i saw this argument.sounds great except that when the Judaizers that came before you were pressing the Gentiles to pretty much convert to judaism to be christian.it was settled early on at the council of Jerusalem.so yes im sorry to have to tell you that the ceremonial Law was wiped out man,sorry to be the bearer of bad news.i realize its hard to feel Religious if we are not passing by the Pork in the Grocery store head held high and feeling very good about ourselves not even the slightest temptation...lol,and oh the poor souls that are buying those nasty shrimp.we lose that oh so Religious feeling if we cant tell the Boss or the cousin that we cant really do anything on Saturday.myself i struggle to get that Religious Feeling these days when i am really doing nothing Religious.taking the neighbor a plate of food every so many days,(they do the same)and stopping myself from hating my "Brother" even though i'm pretty upset is not satisfying my Religiousness -fix sorry to say
so you may have a point

Nice how you flavor your sarcasm with "hating your brother" If I can see through that, I think Jesus might get your drift too.
By the way! In Isaiah 66 we read of a "new heavens and new earth" are you proposing to be one of those mentioned chewing on piggies buts in verse 17?
I guess that is why you also have a problem with verse 23 huh?
How can you argue with the chronology of this?

 

[elijahorao]

Sorry about the late response.

To whom were the Sabbath Day Law given. I am neither a Jew or spiritual Jew.

"The sabbath was made for 'man."
What are you?

 

[elijahorao]

You need to look at the context of this verse. Adam Clarke notes correctly:

Rom 14:5 - One man esteemeth one day above another - Perhaps the word ἡμεραν, day, is here taken for time, festival, and such like, in which sense it is frequently used. Reference is made here to the Jewish institutions, and especially their festivals; such as the passover, pentecost, feast of tabernacles, new moons, jubilee, etc. The converted Jew still thought these of moral obligation; the Gentile Christian not having been bred up in this way had no such prejudices. And as those who were the instruments of bringing him to the knowledge of God gave him no such injunctions, consequently he paid to these no religious regard.

Another - The converted Gentile esteemeth every day - considers that all time is the Lord’s, and that each day should be devoted to the glory of God; and that those festivals are not binding on him.
We add here alike, and make the text say what I am sure was never intended, viz. that there is no distinction of days, not even of the Sabbath: and that every Christian is at liberty to consider even this day to be holy or not holy, as he happens to be persuaded in his own mind.

That the Sabbath is of lasting obligation may be reasonably concluded from its institution (see the note on Gen_2:3) and from its typical reference. All allow that the Sabbath is a type of that rest in glory which remains for the people of God. Now, all types are intended to continue in full force till the antitype, or thing signified, take place; consequently, the Sabbath will continue in force till the consummation of all things. The word alike should not be added; nor is it acknowledged by any MS. or ancient version.

Let every man be fully persuaded - With respect to the propriety or non-propriety of keeping the above festivals, let every man act from the plenary conviction of his own mind; there is a sufficient latitude allowed: all may be fully satisfied.

You correctly point out that; "the Sabbath will continue in force till the consummation of all things." and even in the process of Isaiah 66:23, "all things" are continuing.
It really is of quite an enduring nature isn't ?

 

[ThomasDa]

No way to put a spin on this one,Mate.

No need to put a spin on it. I just told the truth about it.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

Nice how you flavor your sarcasm with "hating your brother" If I can see through that, I think Jesus might get your drift too.
By the way! In Isaiah 66 we read of a "new heavens and new earth" are you proposing to be one of those mentioned chewing on piggies buts in verse 17?
I guess that is why you also have a problem with verse 23 huh?
How can you argue with the chronology of this?

didnt actually see where i typed "hating your Brother"(in reference to anyone else except myself)....loooool

 

[PattyOfurniture]

All you that insist thats its mandatory to observe a 7th Day Sabbath are typing away,copy n paste,typing away ad nauseam....
(it needn't be this way Friends)

Rom 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

DISCLAIMER;These are not real Rocket-scientists,just Professional Actors in christianforums.com

 

[elijahorao]

All you that insist thats its mandatory to observe a 7th Day Sabbath are typing away,copy n paste,typing away ad nauseam....
(it needn't be this way Friends)

Rom 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

DISCLAIMER;These are not real Rocket-scientists,just Professional Actors in christianforums.com

The cartoon is very funny. I like it.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

The cartoon is very funny. I like it.

thats that old farside stuff.breaks the tension in any room at any time...lol

 

[elijahorao]

I think the guy driving the rivet in is about to experience a surprise bowel leak.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

I think the guy driving the rivet in is about to experience a surprise bowel leak.

loooooooooooooool.I think thats the last thing both those Dudes have to worry about....lol

 

[RND]

The Law (10 Commandments) was given to Moses, for intructions in righteousness. They were never given to the Gentiles. Therefore, the Gentiles were never under the Law.

So Hilter's off the hook then!

 

[RND]

hey,
when i was studying wwcg material i saw this argument.sounds great except that when the Judaizers that came before you were pressing the Gentiles to pretty much convert to judaism to be christian.it was settled early on at the council of Jerusalem.so yes im sorry to have to tell you that the ceremonial Law was wiped out man,sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

The council at Jerusalem didn't mention anything about murder, stealing, coveting, using the Lord's name in vain, of being disobedient to parents. Were they approving this type of behavior?

Now, the ceremonial law is a completely different thing from the heath laws. Why would the council re-affirm the observance of four heath principles found in the Mosaic law if that law was being done away with?

 

[heymikey80]

The council at Jerusalem didn't mention anything about murder, stealing, coveting, using the Lord's name in vain, of being disobedient to parents. Were they approving this type of behavior?

No. They were pointing out that the Law couldn't be carried out for God's approval.

Now, the ceremonial law is a completely different thing from the heath laws. Why would the council re-affirm the observance of four heath principles found in the Mosaic law if that law was being done away with?

As accession to the weakness of new Jewish Christians and providing for the situation of Jewish Christians under an oppressive legal system.

 

[RND]

No. They were pointing out that the Law couldn't be carried out for God's approval.

Are you suggesting that God approves of those that break His laws? BTW, which "law" are you referring to?

As accession to the weakness of new Jewish Christians and providing for the situation of Jewish Christians under an oppressive legal system.

A "man-made" (Talmudic) legal system to be sure, but God's 'system" is a light yoke.

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Mat 11:30 For myyoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

The putting off of a "man-made" religious system doesn't make void the law of God, it makes void that which is not of God.

Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

gal 2:21

law was made for the unrighteous man.. 1 tim 1:9


we are to rest every day ...in our position in Christ

 

[RND]

gal 2:21

law was made for the unrighteous man.. 1 tim 1:9


we are to rest every day ...in our position in Christ

Which law?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

RND

Now, the ceremonial law is a completely different thing from the heath laws. Why would the council re-affirm the observance of four heath principles found in the Mosaic law if that law was being done away with?

GE:
The council re-affirmed not, but condemned your 'four principles', which were no 'health principles', but idolatrous practices or customs of the heathendom from which the proselytes came.
​

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

"we are to rest every day ...in our position in Christ". Surely you may. That is not to keep the Sabbath Day. So rest every day on holidays, but worship on the Lord's Day. Then do your job, six days, and the Seventh, God from His Own Works in Christ did rest; so should you, or be out of both rythm and tune with God in Christ.