Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

[bugkiller]

Yeshua said He is Lord of the Sabbath, He is your Lord... reflect that.

And where does Jesus my Lord tell me to keep the sabbath?

bugkiller

 

[visionary]

And where does Jesus my Lord tell me to keep the sabbath?

bugkiller

where does He not?

 

[bugkiller]

Can you spot the first coming in the Law of Moses?

Yes Gen 3:15.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Then why did Yeshua not say it was made for the Jew... but instead said it was made for man.

You are only concidering the words divorced from the context.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You mean Exodus 16 which is before Mount Sinai?

Are you being silly?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

His Sabbath is your rest.

What is Jesus talking about here -

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

bugkiller

 

[JLB777]

then you have no covenant to enter if there is no contract.. job is over for both parties and they part company..

Where in scripture does the Lord speak to Abraham to keep the Sabbath?


JLB

 

[Harry3142]

k4c-

First, let's take a look at what the fourth commandment actually says:

Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor you manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. (Deuteronomy 5:12-15,NIV)

Does it tell the hebrews that they are to worship God on the seventh day? Does it tell them that they are to exhaust themselves visiting and proselytizing on the seventh day? Does it tell them that they are to spend the seventh day in continual church services? No, it does not. Instead, it tells them that they are to rest on the seventh day. And not only are they to rest, their servants are to rest, their animals are to rest, and even the alien who is among them when the Sabbath comes is to rest. The expression today would be 'relax and take it easy'.

Worship largely involved the sacrifice of animals or a portion of their crops at the time that the hebrews received these commandments. Because of that, worship was conducted on the other six days of the week, not on the Sabbath. If a sacrifice needed to be made, it was to be over and done with before sunset on Friday, or else 'shelved' until sunset on Saturday. But during those 24 hours between sunset on Friday and sunset on Saturday the entire community was to 'take a day off'.

This was a radical idea at that time. While they were in Egypt the hebrews had worked all seven days of the week, as did the native egyptians. There was no such thing as a 'day off'. The only days when they didn't work were those days set aside as festival days to celebrate one of Egypt's pantheon of gods and goddesses. So to have a regular day of the week in which they could rest was a totally new experience for them. By setting aside (what the word 'holy' actually means) the seventh day of the week as a day in which everyone could relax and take it easy, that commandment was, in effect, the beginning of what we now call 'the weekend'.

 

[bugkiller]

where does He not?

Does not answer the queation. You promote the obligation to the Sabbath, not me. So you should know where Jesus my Lord tells me to keep the Sabbath.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

k4c-

First, let's take a look at what the fourth commandment actually says:

Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor you manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. (Deuteronomy 5:12-15,NIV)

Does it tell the hebrews that they are to worship God on the seventh day? Does it tell them that they are to exhaust themselves visiting and proselytizing on the seventh day? Does it tell them that they are to spend the seventh day in continual church services? No, it does not. Instead, it tells them that they are to rest on the seventh day. And not only are they to rest, their servants are to rest, their animals are to rest, and even the alien who is among them when the Sabbath comes is to rest. The expression today would be 'relax and take it easy'. .

Leviticus 23
2. "Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, `The LORD'S appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations--My appointed times are these:
3. `For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.
4. `These are the appointed times of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them.

Do you know what a "holy convocation" means?

 

[tzadik]

And where does Jesus my Lord tell me to keep the sabbath?

bugkiller

where does He not?

Does not answer the queation. You promote the obligation to the Sabbath, not me. So you should know where Jesus my Lord tells me to keep the Sabbath.

bugkiller

Perfect example of someone trying to use an argument from silence to support an ENTIRE theology.

If God says “Do A, B and C FOREVER” throughout all your generations.
If Messiah comes and “does A, B and C FOREVER” in obedience to the Father’s will.
If Messiah teaches us to do His Father’s will.
If Messiah teaches us to obey even the least of the A, B and C’s.
If Messiah says “it is lawful to do A, B and C”
If Messiah says He is the Lord of the “A, B an C”s.
If God says, blessed is the man who does “A, B and C”
If God says, you shall call my A, B and C’s a delight.
If God says, you shall sanctify, remember and keep my A, B and C...

Why is it that someone needs FURTHER proof where Messiah explicitly REPEATS the instruction to do “A, B and C” when it’s taught throughout the Scriptures, MULTIPLE times, obeyed & followed by ALL of God’s people and obeyed and followed by Messiah Himself as the Son of God?

In view of all the evidence, the better question should be, “where does God, Messiah or ANYONE in the Bible, tell us NOT to do “A, B and C”.
So again the question, where does ANYONE in Scriptures say “Don’t REMEMBER, Don’t keep, and Don’t sanctify God’s Holy Day?”

 

[JLB777]

Perfect example of someone trying to use an argument from silence to support an ENTIRE theology.

If God says “Do A, B and C FOREVER” throughout all your generations.
If Messiah comes and “does A, B and C FOREVER” in obedience to the Father’s will.
If Messiah teaches us to do His Father’s will.
If Messiah teaches us to obey even the least of the A, B and C’s.
If Messiah says “it is lawful to do A, B and C”
If Messiah says He is the Lord of the “A, B an C”s.
If God says, blessed is the man who does “A, B and C”
If God says, you shall call my A, B and C’s a delight.
If God says, you shall sanctify, remember and keep my A, B and C...

Why is it that someone needs FURTHER proof where Messiah explicitly REPEATS the instruction to do “A, B and C” when it’s taught throughout the Scriptures, MULTIPLE times, obeyed & followed by ALL of God’s people and obeyed and followed by Messiah Himself as the Son of God?

In view of all the evidence, the better question should be, “where does God, Messiah or ANYONE in the Bible, tell us NOT to do “A, B and C”.
So again the question, where does ANYONE in Scriptures say “Don’t REMEMBER, Don’t keep, and Don’t sanctify God’s Holy Day?”

Because A = Sacrifice animals for the atonement of sins!

Because B = kill people for committing adultery!

And last but not least C= Travel to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles!

Don't forget D = All of the above!


JLB

 

[tzadik]

Because A = Sacrifice animals for the atonement of sins!

Because B = kill people for committing adultery!

And last but not least C= Travel to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles!

Don't forget D = All of the above!


JLB

Now here’s a perfect example of shying away from the question.
Once again…


Did God say “keep the Sabbath day FOREVER” throughout all your generations?
Did Messiah come and “keep the Sabbath” in obedience to the Father’s will?
Did Messiah teach us to do His Father’s will?
Did Messiah teach us to obey even the least of God’s commandments?
Did Messiah say “it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath”?
Did Messiah say He is the Lord of the “Sabbath”?
Did God say blessed is the man who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it? (Isaiah 56)
Did God say, you shall call my Sabbath a delight and honorable? (Isaiah 58)
Did God say, you shall sanctify, remember and keep my Sabbath?
Did all the “NT” believers continue keeping the Sabbath even after His death?

If so…what is YOUR excuse for NOT keeping, remembering and sanctifying His Holy Day?

 

[JLB777]

Now here’s a perfect example of shying away from the question.
Once again…


Did God say “keep the Sabbath day FOREVER” throughout all your generations?
Did Messiah come and “keep the Sabbath” in obedience to the Father’s will?
Did Messiah teach us to do His Father’s will?
Did Messiah teach us to obey even the least of God’s commandments?
Did Messiah say “it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath”?
Did Messiah say He is the Lord of the “Sabbath”?
Did God say blessed is the man who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it? (Isaiah 56)
Did God say, you shall call my Sabbath a delight and honorable? (Isaiah 58)
Did God say, you shall sanctify, remember and keep my Sabbath?
Did all the “NT” believers continue keeping the Sabbath even after His death?

If so…what is YOUR excuse for NOT keeping, remembering and sanctifying His Holy Day?

what is YOUR excuse for NOT keeping, remembering and sanctifying His Holy Day?

Because my faith is not weak!

I don't need a special diet, nor do I need special days, whether sabbaths or feast days to help my faith.

If you need special days or a special diet or you need to wear a special costume or maybe you need to use some special Jewish words or phrase's to help you to "feel" spiritual or to "prop Up" your weak faith. If that is where your at, so be it!

All those things were a shadow of Christ!


1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. Romans 14:1-6

Nothing you can do of the flesh, whether Observe a feast day or Sabbath or eat "Kosher" or wear special clothing is going to please God.

Faith pleases God! Without faith it is impossible to please God!

What He does through you is righteousness!

What you do in response to His Voice is all that matters to Him.

ANYTHING not of faith is sin!

Faith comes by hearing God speak to you, your obedience to whats He tells you to do, is all that matters.

He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


JLB

 

[tzadik]

Because my faith is not weak!

???

[ I don't need a special diet, nor do I need special days, whether sabbaths or feast days to help my faith.

Question, whose special diet, special days are they? Man’s or God’s? Last time I checked, in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 – God tells them that He has given these His food laws, so that we shall be holy as He is holy. “This is the law regarding the animal and the bird, and every living thing that moves in the waters and everything that swarms on the earth, to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the edible creature and the creature which is not to be eaten.”

And last time I checked, Leviticus 23 explicitly call the Holy days, `”The LORD'S appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations--My appointed times are these.” Whose Holy days and appointments? GOD’S!

So let me rephrase your statement above accurately…I don’t need to obey God’s food instructions nor do I need to observe and keep God’s Holy Days, to have faith in God. Tsk tsk tsk.
It’s like saying I don’t have to remember my wife’s birthday, our anniversary, or remember that my wife is a diabetic, has celiac and is lactose intolerant in order to be a good husband. Madness.

If you need special days or a special diet or you need to wear a special costume or maybe you need to use some special Jewish words or phrase's to help you to "feel" spiritual or to "prop Up" your weak faith. If that is where your at, so be it!

Last time I checked the ENTIRE Bible, from Genesis through Revelation was written by Hebrews. They all spoke Hebrew, thought in Hebrew, lived and walked according to the Instructions given to them by the God of Israel, following a Hebrew Messiah! But hey, if you want to cling on to the words of some English translator, and prefer to call the Messiah by his transliterated, translated name, so be it.

All those things were a shadow of Christ!

Actually, last time I checked, Paul tells us that these things CONTINUE to be a shadow of good things to come! [this was YEAARS after Messiah came, died, resurrected and went back up!] Colossians 2:17.

1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. Romans 14:1-6

Quick note for you, verse one tells you explicitly what this passage is going to be about. MAN’S OPINIONS.
“Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.” Or “DOUBTFUL THINGS”. God’s Commandments are NOT doubtful things. They are God’s commandments!

I don’t feel like giving you a Greek/Hebrew interpretation lesson, but I must.

Verse 2 talks NOTHING about Leviticus 11 or Deuteronomy 14. Why not? Because (A.) Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 are NOT doubtful things, or man’s opinions, but God’s COMMANDMENTS. And (B.) because it says NOTHING about eathing clean or unclean foods!

Verse 5 absolutely does not talk about God’s Holy days! Why not? Because (A.) God’s Holy Days are NOT a matter of doubtful things, or man’s opinions, but God’s COMMANDMENTS.
And (B.) just in case you think verse 5 is talking about the Sabbath, let’s put it into practice in this verse.
Scenario A: One person esteems 1 day as the Sabbath (above the others), but another makes EVERY day a Sabbath! So that 2nd person does not work for 7 days, does not light a fire for 7 days, does not buy anything for the rest of his life etc. etc.

Scenario B: One person esteems 1 day as the Sabbath (above the others), but another makes all 7 days “No-SABBATH”. So they NEVER dedicate, hallow, sanctify or separate any days unto the Lord, but rather live every day, working, and enjoying their own pleasures.

See? Even IF we ‘abra cadabra’d the Sabbath into verse 5, it would make no sense! Paul KEPT the Sabbath!
Romans 14 deals with doubtful things, or man’s opinions. NOT God’s HOLY COMMANDMENTS!

Nothing you can do of the flesh, whether Observe a feast day or Sabbath or eat "Kosher" or wear special clothing is going to please God.

Lol. So what you are telling me is that all of God’s commandments were given, not so we could obey, follow and walk in them and be blessed by God, but they were given to us so that we could avoid them?
Obedience to God’s commandments = doing God’s Will. It’s EXACTLY what pleases God! Internal obedience that is manifested in physical external obedience to His WORD!
What in the world are you talking about!? Messiah goes a step further and tells us that ONLY those who do the Father’s WILL will enter into the Kingdom!

Faith pleases God! Without faith it is impossible to please God!

And once again I advise you to go study out the word faith. Emunah in Hebrew and Pistos in Greek = trusting faithfulness or faithful obedience.
It’s impossible to have true faith without obedience, and it’s impossible to have true obedience without faith!

Don’t take my word for it -- Read John 3:36 ~~"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

It’s one thing to “hear” it’s another thing all together to DO! God doesn’t want hearers that aren’t DOERS!


“for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.”

"For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by tzadik

Now here’s a perfect example of shying away from the question.
Once again…

Did God say, you shall call my Sabbath a delight and honorable? (Isaiah 58)
Did God say, you shall sanctify, remember and keep my Sabbath?
Did all the “NT” believers continue keeping the Sabbath even after His death?

If so…what is YOUR excuse for NOT keeping, remembering and sanctifying His Holy Day?

Good point

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Revelation 3:14 " And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write!
These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God":

 

[JLB777]

???

“for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.”

Would you list the scripture reference for this verse?

Question, whose special diet, special days are they? Man’s or God’s? Last time I checked, in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 – God tells them that He has given these His food laws, so that we shall be holy as He is holy. “This is the law regarding the animal and the bird, and every living thing that moves in the waters and everything that swarms on the earth, to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the edible creature and the creature which is not to be eaten.”

Oh great point. I think you should follow all of those scriptures in Leviticus and Deuteronomy because they are from God!

So let me rephrase your statement above accurately…I don’t need to obey God’s food instructions nor do I need to observe and keep God’s Holy Days, to have faith in God. Tsk tsk tsk.
It’s like saying I don’t have to remember my wife’s birthday, our anniversary, or remember that my wife is a diabetic, has celiac and is lactose intolerant in order to be a good husband. Madness.

You seem to have a problem with what Paul wrote in Romans 14.

I am sorry you don't care for the Apostle Paul.

Verse 2 talks NOTHING about Leviticus 11 or Deuteronomy 14. Why not? Because (A.) Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 are NOT doubtful things, or man’s opinions, but God’s COMMANDMENTS. And (B.) because it says NOTHING about eathing clean or unclean foods!

Yes, you are right. I see now, we should be following and doing what these books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus say.

Should we do all of them them or some of them?

Actually, last time I checked, Paul tells us that these things CONTINUE to be a shadow of good things to come! [this was YEAARS after Messiah came, died, resurrected and went back up!] Colossians 2:17.

which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Yes, these things were a shadow until the substance came.

You shouldn't have to twist the word brother, you have Leviticus to keep and all the things in it that God has called you to do.

Last time I checked the ENTIRE Bible, from Genesis through Revelation was written by Hebrews. They all spoke Hebrew, thought in Hebrew, lived and walked according to the Instructions given to them by the God of Israel, following a Hebrew Messiah! But hey, if you want to cling on to the words of some English translator, and prefer to call the Messiah by his transliterated, translated name, so be it.

I call Him by the name ABOVE every name! JESUS!


JLB

 

[x141]

It's interesting, that Rest would cause such unrest in people ...

Jer_7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

Jer_3:25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us ...

Isa_25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

We are being called up to a new mountain, a new jerusalem.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's interesting, that Rest would cause such unrest in people ...


Isa_25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.


We are being called up to a new mountain, a new jerusalem.

What mountain is Jesus talking about in Matt 21?

Matthew 21:21 And Jesus answering said to them, "verily I say to ye
If ye may have faith and may not doubt, not only this of the fig-tree shall ye do,
but even if to this mountain ye may say, 'be lifted up and be cast into the sea', it shall come become

This mountain in Reve 8:8 appears to be symbolizing the OT Mt Sinai, IMHO. Any thoughts on that?
[FWIW, I and a lot of others view OC Jerusalem and it's temple as "Babylon" in Revelation]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger trumpeted,
and as it were a great mountain with fire burning was cast into the sea,
and the third of the sea became blood,

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt--nor destroy in all My holy mountain
For filled is the land with the knowledge of Yahweh, as the waters to the sea form a covering.

 

[x141]

[/size]

What mountain is Jesus talking about in Matt 21?

Matthew 21:21 And Jesus answering said to them, "verily I say to ye
If ye may have faith and may not doubt, not only this of the fig-tree shall ye do,
but even if to this mountain ye may say, 'be lifted up and be cast into the sea', it shall come become

This mountain in Reve 8:8 appears to be symbolizing the OT Mt Sinai, IMHO. Any thoughts on that?
[FWIW, I and a lot of others view OC Jerusalem and it's temple as "Babylon" in Revelation]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger trumpeted,
and as it were a great mountain with fire burning was cast into the sea,
and the third of the sea became blood,

Abraham sent her away ... it's a leaves of the fig tree thing ...