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Thanks. BTW 'ataboy' appreaciation is shown through that little light bulb in the top right corner.bugkiller,
you get an "ataboy" for getting over to that other thread and answering that question. i'm impressed.
real standup!
So were you baptised like Jesus was - naked before a crowd? When did you wash anybodies feet with only a towel which you used to dry their feet? I don't think you do as Jesus did at all. You can't humble yourself that much in our society without being called a pervert.What commandments are you talking about? The 10? or the commandments of Jesus? They are different unless of course you don't subscribe to the doctrine of the trinity. You might argue that the word trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in scripture. And I will present you with scriptures stating God to be a plural Being in three distinct personalities even from the OT.What say John? 1 Jn 2:6 "He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
Where is this evidence? I Cor 16 Paul is directly telling the church to recieve an offering on the first day of the week. Not only that he told the churches of Galatia to do the same also mentioned in the same chapter. I know of no church that recieves an offering on a day that they do not worship. Does anyone else?You, well know, that the church kept the Sabbath throughout all the New Testament. This was shown in another thread which you participated in. Man changed the day of worship, not God who gave it.
And what works would these be? Observing the law? How does a dead man observe anything. I have heard that the dead know nothing. Is that true? We are dead to the law and alive in Chirst Jesus. (Romans 6) How does one throw out the law and observe it? (Gal 4:30) James is not talking about observing the law as the works. One can not get or retain salvation by observing the law. In fact works only bring death in relationship to the law. (Romans 6:23) But one can have the gift which is eternal life (salvation). I willing give my wages from works to anyone who will take them. I think the gift is a much better deal. That does not mean that I am idle.Secondly, works only brings death! Do you not remember that "Faith without works is dead." Abraham had works! The problem here is that you do not understand "works." That's just what so called Christianity wants - Christianity without obedience! Do you not understand "and by works was faith made perfect?...You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Js 2:24 Was not Abraham justified by works?
I find this quite condemning. I am accused of being ignorant. I am told that I will die when the Bible clearly says I have life. Romans 8:1, 2 for starters. I am not a transgressor any more. I have been redeemed from the law and its curse. I am righteous by declaration and imputation. My righteousness is God's righteousness. I have left the dirty rags of self righteousness behind. My righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees because it is God's righteousness by imputation.Second, it is obvious that you do not understand "grace." All are subject to die, but it is the mercy of the living God that grants eternal life, to those which obey him. How can he then give eternal life to a transgressor of the law, one who practices lawlessness, one who falls under the penalty by his works; which is stated numerous times in the New Testament that he will NOT. You might go read up on "lawlessness". They will not make it into the Kingdom of God.
I find no command mentioned to keep the sabbath in the above statement. I find no commandment by Jesus or anyone else in the NT to keep the sabbath. Does anyone else?Christ did not mention the Sabbath except to say he was "Lord of the Sabbath" and also to show the Pharisee where they where messing up in keeping the Sabbath. Even in his teaching on the mount he said, "Pray that your flight be not on Sabbath or in the winter." The latter, being an end time prophecy just before his coming. So he did not teach it? Why would he have to mention something that they were already keeping? He expounded, through his teachings, on "love thy neighbor" because this most often his the hardest thing to do. Physically and spiritually.
I agree the sabbath is one of the easiest commandment to observe or keep. That is not the reason for failure to keep. The reason for failure to keep is that the Christian is dead to and not under the law (Torah) including the 10 commandments. The Stone edition of the Tanak states in Hosea 2 that the Sabbath will be terminated. Yes it uses the word terminated. Jer 31:31-34 states that the new covenant will not be like the (old) covenant made with their fathers identified in Deut 4:13 as the stone tablets. And in Deut 5 as the ten commandments. This would include the seventh day sabbath.The Sabbath is probably one of the easiest of the commandments to keep out of them all. Rest and attend services.
Again the poster makes a manipulative implied statement with no support. It is implied that Paul kept the sabbath because he was in the synagogue on the sabbath. No where in scripture does one find support for this idea. The Jew was commanded to worship only 3 times a year and that was to be at the Temple, not a synagogue. The synagogue and church are nothing alike. Since the poster implies that we are to walk (do) as Paul did, are they preaching Jesus in the synagogue to Jews on the sabbath? Probably not even assembling with the Jews in the synagogue. Synagogue and church are not the same. Jesus is not welcome in the synagogue as evidenced in both the bible and our current society. An assembly of Messianics is not done in a Jewish synagogue. They will not allow it.Paul, an apostle of God, admonished us to walk as he walked. Throughout the New Testament it is proven time and time again that the law exist. "Those who have an ear, let them hear." Yes, there was a law abolished and that was covered in an earlier thread. Yes, there is a new covenant and it still includes obedience to God's law.
So not everyone is under the law according to the above statement.JohnRabbit, in another thread asked about a verse in Galatians. "if led by the spirit are not under the law." Why? Because of "grace" or "mercy" of God. All others are still under the law -- the penalty of it! Paul states that he serves the law and the law is holy just and good. If it did not exist, he could not serve it could he? He serves it by way of obeying it, and by grace he is not "under the law." Even though he still fights sin, which was in his flesh, just like ours, he fought against it overcoming it and he knew what sin was because of the law. We can't know what sin is if there is no law, correct? We are to grow in this way. In grace and knowledge.
That law applies only to those in its jurisdiction. For instance the law for 18 wheelers is 55 MPH in California and 75 MPH in Arazonia and New Mexico, 70 in Texas and Oklahoma. Is a truck doing 75 in Arazonia violating the 55 MPH law in California? No. why? It is because California has no jurisdiction in Arazonia even if the truck and driver is licenced in California.If there is a law to do 55mph then those that break the law are subject to the fine and those who don't are not subject to the law. This would be correct!
Where is this? I can't find it in my Bible.All the commandments were taught by Christ, all 10, except you say 9. Where is your logic in this? Paul said walk as he walked, enough said. Christ kept the Sabbath, period. Either by doing or saying.
The customary foot washing was not restricted to the Passover celebration or a part thereof. Foot washing is not a commandment, but a custom of courtesy because they wore sandals and had dirty feet. Note what Jesus told Peter.As far as washing the feet? Have you ever heard of a church that keeps the Passover? If so they will wash feet as commanded.
This baptism John did was after the fashion of the mikveh. The mikveh was preformed in public by a priest at the Temple. It is not a Jewish custom butpart of the law. Furthermore at that time most if not all but the wealthy had only one garment. They even used it as a blanket for warmth at night. A lender was required to return the pledge of agarment for that purpose.Christ wasn't naked when he was baptized! Bible says no such thing in all three accounts.
Great advice and the poster should follow it.[/quote]You might want to re-evaluate the teachings on law, faith, works, grace. The bible does not and cannot contradict itself. However, what you are saying one would conclude that it does.
This statement does not begin to touch on humility or the humility of God washing the disciples feet dressed as a servant. In the manner of Jesus Christ dressed in only a towel with which He dried their feet. Check into the clothing of a servant/slave. John 13:4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. Is it denied because it doesn't say Jesus stripped naked and then girded Himself with a towel? I read an inclusive statement in my verse. It wasn't the 21st century. Verse 17 indicates servant meaning slave. Jesus washed the disciples feet as a servant dressed as a servant.And how would washing someone's feet be perverted? It would show humbleness and isn't that which true Christians are to have?
Is the seventh commandment done away with?
Do you think there is a difference? after all the Father and Son are in complete agreement.. and the Son promised that not the tiniest bit of it would be done away with.. until heaven and earth pass away..The 10? or the commandments of Jesus?
Do you even know what the seventh commandment even says.....?? Clue.. it is not the fourth commandment..GE:
That exactly was the point I answered in my post you reacted to. Yes! it was. In Christ; in Himself; through Himself; once for all. He resurrected again; and in Him and through Him in and through Resurrection from the dead, Christ ORIGINALLY INSTITUTED the Christian, Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD-your-God".
Do you even know what the seventh commandment even says.....?? Clue.. it is not the fourth commandment..
As long as sin remains, so also must the law define it... it shall remain.. and you are absolutely right the good news of Yeshua is the offer of salvation and His power over death by His resurrection...It's still just 'Law' you're proclaiming. Bring us the Good News of Jesus Christ which "is the power of God unto salvation". The Law even in and under the New Covenant is powerless to save. If not through and because of "the POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION" we regard the Sabbath Day of the LORD our God, IN VAIN we regard it!
Do you think there is a difference? after all the Father and Son are in complete agreement.. and the Son promised that not the tiniest bit of it would be done away with.. until heaven and earth pass away..
As long as sin remains, so also must the law define it... it shall remain.. and you are absolutely right the good news of Yeshua is the offer of salvation and His power over death by His resurrection...
The usage of law is often wide in scripture. Jesus called the psalms law, in John 10 and 15, so yes, there may be future things to come, from the prophets etc, however, Jesus surely knew the aspects of the Mosaic law, were going to the cross. Did you ever notice that respected Barnabas, travelled with Paul, and fought off judaizing, and preached Christ is the end of the law?
44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
Barn.
15:1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
And please remember, that not only did Peter call the law an unbearable yoke, but even James did not want to burden the gentiles with torah life, inacts 15.
yes we should keep the sabbath, Sunday is the Christian Sabbath.
GE:
Ja sure, Now I see; sorry, but aren't we discussing the FOURTH now? Do you even have a clue what you are even speaking even yourself?
My argument still stands : ALL 'Law' 'moral' or 'ceremonial' so-called. All God's 'Law' in the Scriptures because it is Scripture, is 'moral'. There's no such thing as 'ceremonial' 'Law' because it is 'ceremonial' but not 'moral'.
Therefore yes, also the Seventh in Jesus Christ was "nailed to the cross" and in Him thus was "done away with", "abolished", brought to nought IN THAT HE, "WAS MADE SIN FOR US", and "IN HIMSELF, CARRIED OUR SINS" and "the plague" that should have scourged us, was "UPON HIM".
Most certainly therefore the Seventh Commandment too!
As long as sin remains, so also must the law define it... it shall remain.. and you are absolutely right the good news of Yeshua is the offer of salvation and His power over death by His resurrection...
Romans 3:31o we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Seems your precept is against Paul's. Of course Paul would not be against him self.
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