And you think Dietrich Bonhoeffer transmits the word of God better than the authors of the bible?
And you think Dietrich Bonhoeffer transmits the word of God better than the authors of the bible?
He is more proximate to our times and circumstances.
I love the whole psychology of the term "Pro Choice"... Does the baby have a choice?
Anti abortion is Pro Life.... Abortion is pro death...
It's just a bunch of people trying to convince themselves that they don't have to take on the responsibility of their actions...
OK, so, you say, what about a rape victim?
I say, do you want to kill a child because it's father was a criminal?
Is there not hundreds of families looking to raise children because they cannot have their own?
I can understand non believers and atheists as they don't believe in God or His will.
But... Christians? Really? Do we not believe that all things work for the Lords good and perfect plan?
Fewf.... glad that Einsteins mom didn't feel this way. Or Edison's, Alexander Graham Bell's, Jefferson's, Martin Luther King's, Lincoln's, Steve Jobs'.... the list goes on...Give me a break. The fetus has no meaningful moral agency, it's a fetus and exists in a womb. A woman, on the other hand, has thousands of potential choices in her life.
The value of human life is contingent upon it's moral agency?
Sorry I haven't read all the posts. What was the situation that you had where you had to have an abortion of your child... or your wife would die?Since my question never got addressed a while back, I'll bring it up again. If, in my younger years I would have chosen abortion, or the life of my child over the life of my wife, would I be guilty of murder or anti life or whatever position you apparently hold here, along with the apparent majority?
To me the verse says the opposite of what you're saying. If the child is born harmed, then he shall pay life for life. Therefore abortion is murder.
Luke 1:
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
43 "But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 "For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
Since my question never got addressed a while back, I'll bring it up again. If, in my younger years I would have chosen abortion, or the life of my child over the life of my wife, would I be guilty of murder or anti life or whatever position you apparently hold here, along with the apparent majority?
Give me a break. The fetus has no meaningful moral agency, it's a fetus and exists in a womb. A woman, on the other hand, has thousands of potential choices in her life.
The value of human life is contingent upon it's moral agency?
Now perhaps you could answer the question.We are speaking of pragmatic ethics here, not religious ideals. The two are not the same. We must make choices. The pro-life position obfuscates this and acts like a woman has no real choices, that she's the equivalent of a moral monster if she chooses abortion and that doctor who provide abortion services are little more than monsters who should be punished by law or worse. I find that the real problem.
This should end this discussion in every regard. Abortion is murder. Sugar coat it and call it whatever you want. A life is being taken. Period. Not up for debate.
You consider an unborn baby an enemy combatant?
According to the CDC, the United States’ maternal mortality rate was 9.0 per 100,000, or nine thousandths of one percent. And based on this you declare unwanted unborn babies “enemies” and support the slaughtering of over 60 million of them since Roe v. Wade?The woman is 14 times more likely to die from pregnancy than an abortion. If its unwanted, tragically, the fetus or embryo is an enemy of her health.
I am a Lutheran, but I am first and foremost a Bible believer and draw my doctrine from the Bible only...it happens that the ELS and WELS Lutherans preach what I read in the Scriptures.Biblical imagery is interspersed here and there. Its true I don't engage in proof-texting but even an LCMS Lutheran would tell you that biblicism is not a Lutheran hermeneutic, it's not how we do theology.
I draw alot from Pr. Dietrich Bonhoeffer's thought about secularism and the post-WWII traditions of theology that came out of that. Given that is a pivot from Lutheran scholasticism, it might make it hard to understand where I am coming from, I suppose, as a Lutheran.
According to the CDC, the United States’ maternal mortality rate was 9.0 per 100,000, or nine thousandths of one percent. And based on this you declare unwanted unborn babies “enemies” and support the slaughtering of over 60 million of them since Roe v. Wade?
We do agree on one thing: you don't place a very high value on scripture.
I am a Lutheran, but I am first and foremost a Bible believer and draw my doctrine from the Bible only...it happens that the ELS and WELS Lutherans preach what I read in the Scriptures.
If you do not draw upon Scripture for your beliefs and practices then you are correct in assuming I will not easily follow your understandings nor can I make you account for them in any meaningful way.
Sorry no time...I judge by the method of our actual church practices.I do draw upon the Bible for my religion, but Lutherans have generally not considered the Bible an exhaustive or universally applicable guide to ethics or conduct in life. Lutherans have always considered ethics separate from theology.
Here is a video by Pr. Fisk who is in the LCMS. He discusses how we are not biblicists and don't really view the Bible as a primarily a science book or a book of ethics:
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