Is the Earth Flat?

JohnEmmett · Jun 28, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
you have no comprehension of life without faith. It's not that bad really. No worse than the alternative.

This life is a waiting room…

Jipsah · Jun 28, 2023

d taylor said:
-

Prove from other verses in The Bible that the moon reflects the suns light.

Prove from verses in the Bible that a whale is a mammal.

Let's not be ridiculous, OK?

Jipsah · Jun 28, 2023

oikonomia said:
Since you spend time on basically Christian Forum, you must see some relevance to the Bible, God, and the things talked about here. Are you dedicated to proving Bible and God are not relevant?

Other than the fact that God created the universe and the Laws of Physics are His laws, God and the Bible aren't relevant to the study of Physics. The same is true with the study of Astronomy, or Geology, or Biology, or any number of other things.

JohnEmmett · Jun 28, 2023

Jipsah said:
Other than the fact that God created the universe and the Laws of Physics are His laws,

That’s significant

Jipsah · Jun 28, 2023

JohnEmmett said:
That’s significant

Not to the study of Physics itself. You learn how things work by studying how things work. Yes, God designed it. Does knowing that help you know how His design works? Not in the least.

I designed and wrote a ton of software. Does knowing that help any poor unfortunate who has to maintain my stuff know how it works? Not at all. He or she has to dig into the source code and figure it out for themselves.

sjastro · Jun 28, 2023

d taylor said:
-

Prove from other verses in The Bible that the moon reflects the suns light.

What a nonsensical comment, the Bible doesn't prove anything.
Here is the science which shows why moonlight is reflected sunlight by comparing their spectra when the moon and sun are at an altitude of 57⁰ and 30⁰ above the horizon respectively.

If the moon creates its own light according to your interpretation of Genesis would you care to explain why a total eclipse of the sun results in darkness?
Unless you don't believe your own eyes in which case it's all a fake concocted by scientists(!?), otherwise it is an example of Genesis being wrong.

pgp_protector · Jun 28, 2023

sjastro said:
What a nonsensical comment, the Bible doesn't prove anything.
Here is the science which shows why moonlight is reflected sunlight by comparing their spectra when the moon and sun are at an altitude of 57⁰ and 30⁰ above the horizon respectively.

View attachment 332797

If the moon creates its own light according to your interpretation of Genesis would you care to explain why a total eclipse of the sun results in darkness?
Unless you don't believe your own eyes in which case it's all a fake concocted by scientists(!?), otherwise it is an example of Genesis being wrong.

And that's what will cause the cognitive dissonance, Their interpretation CAN'T BE WRONG.

sjastro · Jun 28, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
This "moon" and "steamship" claim completely ignores the cumulative and accelerationist nature of knowledge. It falls in the same category as arguments against the age of humanity claiming "if it took only 10,000 to go from agriculture to cell phones, why did humans just use simple stone tools for 200,000 years, clearly humans have only been around for 10,000 years and the rest is a bunch of lies".

And the Arab clearly were ahead of Europe (at least the parts they didn't control) at their peak, perhaps the Indians and Chinese were as well.

Was my claim in post #1460 a bit abrupt, sure, but I was just trying to get out of a dumb philosophical argument and stepped in a dumb historical argument.

Europeans clearly lagged for a long period after the fall of the Roman empire. What caused it to recover? Was it some sort of theological innovation? I don't think so. There were a series of theological/philosophical claims about how christian theology and philosophy provides the backing given in post #1453, to which I responded in post #1457. There just isn't a Christian theological basis to the scientific understanding of nature. This makes it hard for Christianity to be responsible for the explosion of science.

We do have a western bias view of the sciences and neglect Islamic influence during its Golden Age on modern science.

When the Golden Age ended with the sack of Baghdad in 1258 by the Mongols, this centre of influence gradually shifted from the Islamic Middle East to Christian western Europe.

Mark Quayle · Jun 28, 2023

d taylor said:
You do not believe many verses of The Bible as they are given in The Bible. Example in Genesis 1, the verses state God created two great lights. But because of science you believe the moon is not a created light but instead a light reflector.

Big deal. The moon doesn't reflect the sun. It reflects the light.

Did you know that a light bulb is not a light? The filament is. Or no, not the filament —the glow of the filament with current running through it. Well, no, not the current either, exactly, but the heat that the current causes. Well, no, not the heat, but the excited electrons. Well, no, not that, exactly..... ¿Hasta quando?

And a headlight has a complex reflector.

Aussie Pete · Jun 29, 2023

PIckleRelations said:
Just being honest. The earth is flat. That's just the facts.

Only in your vain imagination.

Akita Suggagaki · Jun 29, 2023

What is the meaning of the genesis creation accounts?

oikonomia · Jun 29, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
What is the meaning of the genesis creation accounts?

Now you know that question can hardly be exhausted.

Why is the meaning of the Genesis creation accounts requires the whole Bible ultimately.
But I would suggest this for chapter one's account. God wants a man in His image and exercising His kingdom dominion.

Go first to the end of the Bible, the last two chapters, Revelation 21 and 22.
Understand that EVERYTHING in the Bible has these two chapters as its ultimate destination.
Understand that all God planned and does has this climax as its ultimate goal.

Then you go back to Genesis 1 and 2. And reading Genesis 1 and 2 keep reminding yourself -
"Ultimately it all was planned and done for the consummation shown in Revelation 21 and 22."

In fact the whole Bible reveals God moving all things and everything towards this ultimate climax -
He created all things for this purpose of New Jerusalem the dwelling place of God and man within a universe in which only righteousness dwells.

Each and every obstacle, barrier, problem, opposition from His enemies cannot deter Him.
They will all come to the Triune God in unconditional defeat.
And we who are all saved will come to Him eventually in uncoditional surrender to His eternal love.

This evening Akita, this is what I would submit is something of the meaning of Genesis creation accounts.
Genesis 1:26,27 may be the most important part of the first creation account:

And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of heaven and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
And God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God created all things to be a realm in which His creature man represents the unseen God reigning over creation as His deputy authority.
The triune God wants man to express God, manifest God, reign for God, rule for God, shine forth the divine attributes of God within human virtures. Two key words - "image" and "dominion" reveal His eternal purpose in preparing creation for man.

Image - meaning man is to visibly manifest the uncreated and Invisible God.
Dominion - means man is to reign over creation in the kingdom of God, manifesting the government of God.

When God obtains a man properly expressing Himself in His image and in His dominion, He can rest.
He rests not because He is weary. He rests because He has His eternal heart's desire a man expressing God in the universe.

Akita Suggagaki · Jun 29, 2023

oikonomia said:
Now you know that question can hardly be exhausted.

yes, but you are off to a good start. thank you.

oikonomia · Jun 29, 2023

Jipsah said:
Other than the fact that God created the universe and the Laws of Physics are His laws, God and the Bible aren't relevant to the study of Physics. The same is true with the study of Astronomy, or Geology, or Biology, or any number of other things.

All these things are the outskirts of His ways - just a mere whisper.
The greatness of His doings and His creation and how it works? We only can know mere whisper of the whole.

Indeed, these are but the fringes of His ways; And how small a whisper do we hear of Him! But as for the thundering of His mightiness, who can comprehend it? (Job 26:14)

oikonomia · Jun 29, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
yes, but you are off to a good start. thank you.

You are quite welcome.
These are not esoteric gnostic secrets for some elite.
They must become the commoner's wisdom which a child can approach.

God created all things FOR His will. All things were created because of His will.
This means not only His will power but His PLAN.

The ancient elders of creation proclaim in Revelation 4 -
You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were, and were created. (Rev. 4:11)

The Apostle Paul tells us before God laid the foundation of the world He had in His heart a plan for doing so - to have sons with His life and nature.

Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (Eph. 1:4,5)

Did you see that? The implication is very strong. The reason He created the universe - "laid the foundation of the world" - was
His hearts desire to have sons with His life, His nature, His holiness through THE Son Jesus Christ.

I tell them "In order to really understand the meaning of the universe you have to study Jesus Christ."
Poor, poor atheism! No meaning, no purpose, no final justice, no glimpse into the climax of human history.
And no example of what this God is after.

Jipsah · Jun 30, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
What is the meaning of the genesis creation accounts?

That God created everything.

Akita Suggagaki · Jun 30, 2023

Another thing to consider is our need for some narrative humility: the awareness of the impossibility of knowing accurately what another’s account fully encompasses. We must accept that there may always be some degree of ambiguity.

Jipsah said:
That God created everything.

That is a humble start. I like it. Is anyone familiar with the term "Narrative Humility"? Maybe we all understand and know less about these ancient narratives than we think.

prodromos · Jun 30, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
Another thing to consider is our need for some narrative humility: the awareness of the impossibility of knowing accurately what another’s account fully encompasses. We must accept that there may always be some degree of ambiguity.

That is a humble start. I like it. Is anyone familiar with the term "Narrative Humility"? Maybe we all understand and know less about these ancient narratives than we think.

But also consider that the creation account was written in terms the people at the time could readily accept.

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 1, 2023

prodromos said:
But also consider that the creation account was written in terms the people at the time could readily accept.

Yes, and the main takeaways, it seems to me, are that God created a "good" universe in an orderly manner.

Edwin Wright · Jul 2, 2023

Lost4words said:
Its not a case of not believing in many verses. No. I truly believe every verse.

Its just that you misinterpret those verses to claim something that is extremely far fetched and beyond all reason my friend.

You mention science all the time. The main point is, its not science that is the issue. Its YOUR interpretation of scripture that is completely wrong!

Science is secondary to interpretation. But, science confirms God's creation of a round earth, of a moon that reflects the suns rays.

You just need to face the fact that your interpretation of God's word about these things is complete wrong!

God bless you my friend.

The moon is not a reflected light source; it is a distinct luminary. Scripture is definitive on this point. See THE MOON (Part I).

Is the Earth Flat?

Degrees of Earth flatness:

It's not flat. It's a giant, spinning spaceball.

It's flat, but all the other planets are giant, spinning spaceballs.

It's flat, and a dome surrounds it.

It's flat, a dome surrounds it, and the Earth is the center of the universe.

It's flat, domed, and planets/stars are actually illusions/objects in the dome.

It's all of the above, and the government is covering it all up at the behest of Satan.

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