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Featured Is temptation, in and of itself, sin?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by public hermit, Apr 7, 2021 at 4:49 PM.

  1. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Or call it covetousness. That is a sin. :scratch:
     
  2. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Today believe the only sin a Christian can commit is not having love towards God, and not having loves towards their neighbor.

    Because Jesus christ said to Love God, and Love our neighbour as ourself.

    All other sins have been paid for though we lay down our old lifestyle before Christ, and put on Christ and walk in newness of the spirit in love for God and Love for Others.

    God's grace is not a license to keep living in our natural hateful, deeming way towards others, or towards God -> or live it up like their is no tomorrow, we lay our lives old lifestyle down and walk in the newness of life by the spirit that God gives and live towards Him,

    and that is tough and it why we need Christ Jesus, and the Father to help us in our daily walk.

    @public hermit
     
  3. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Wow that point really came up in that previous thread. Basically Apollinarianism, that Christ had to be not just true God, but true Man. It is possible to go too overboard on Christ's Divinity, where you see him as being "God in a Man suit" as one friend put it, or "God in a Bod" as one pastor said(the famous Mark Driscol of Mar's Hill Seattle seemed to advocate in one sermon).

    Christ has more than a body, but a human soul etc. to go with that body, and seeing Him as Beyond temptation inadvertently screws a lot of things up. It basically would be cheating as temptation goes, because he is suppose to understand our condition and be our example but if he bounces temptation off him, like the armor plating of a battle ship vs. a BB gun that is much different than being truly human. It also screws up the Biblical notion put forth from the Church fathers that "What is not assumed cannot be healed / redeemed".
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 5:21 PM
  4. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    That is an interesting passage, now that you point it out. Here, sin is equated with temptation, I think. Interesting. How could Jesus be tempted without some mental assent to the temptation, or at least some inner desire for the thing that tempts? I'm not saying he did, God forbid! I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
     
  5. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    Right, so I guess we have to conclude that Jesus experienced the desire for the things that tempt, but didn't give into the desire. In other words, tempting desires are not sinful. I guess that makes sense, although it is odd to thing that Jesus might have actually desired tempting things. Maybe I have too much "God in the bod" in my thinking, lol. :)
     
  6. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    You and pavel make good points. @Maria Billingsley thank you for your points too.

    Personally see it as God helping in and through His Son for him not to fall into temptation, though he was tempted in all things.

    Here is Young's Literal

    Hebrews 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our infirmities, but one tempted in all things in like manner -- apart from sin;

    Talking about Jesus how he was tempted in all things, I believe God with Him helped him to draw back those desires and making the action of choice to partake in any sin.

    So we have someone we can relate to -> in seeing the power of God inner working with in the Man JEsus Christ our Lord the Son of God in not falling into temptation, though the desire would have been there, he did not act upon it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 5:32 PM
  7. jacks

    jacks Er Victus Supporter

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    This seems to make sense, though I would add that not only did He not act upon the desire, He didn't dwell upon it. Which may be what is meant by "lusting" in the Matthew 5:28 verse.
     
  8. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    That makes sense. The word for lust (epithumeo) in that passage doesn't mean simple desire, but strong desire. The idea is to set one's heart on the thing desired. So, perhaps, we can say that Jesus experienced initial desire to sin, he just didn't set his heart on it. Or as you put it, didn't dwell on it.
     
  9. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Does it matter when we have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us?

    (Do troglodytes live in trailer homes?)
     
  10. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Just reading in Colossians 3

    If you been risen with Christ seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God, set your affections on things above and not on things on the earth.

    This is what Jesus Christ done, He was constantly asking His Father For His will to be done and not Jesus own will, because he had his own choice to set his mind on things on heaven or things on earth. His kingdom was of heaven and not earth. (I believe somewhere in the gospel)
     
  11. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    This particular troglodyte does not. But, there is no shame for those who do. :)

    I think it matters, in spite of the imputation, or impartation, of Christ's righteousness. Unless he was tempted as we are, can he help us overcome our own struggles?
     
  12. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    What’s a troglodyte?
     
  13. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    A hermit, or cave dweller. :)
     
  14. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Christ had no unregenerate disposition toward sin.

    Our sinful desires (desires in themselves sinful, not good desires misapplied) come from our sinful nature.
    Christ had no such nature.
    But there is no sin in the inclination to avoid pain, abandonment, punishment, etc. when you are innocent, and having to continually choose to accept it.
     
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  15. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Notice with the statement you underlines, ("We, on the other hand, deem it sin when man is tickled by any desire at all against the law of God"), that Calvin does not make it obvious what the "it" is that he refers to. It may be he meant the use of 'it' in this way: "...it is sin to give temptation the time of day"

    If, in Calvin's mind, the temptation and the flirting with it are one and the same, (which I doubt), then yes, he disagrees with Augustine, but it seems to me he only disagrees with Augustine's use of 'weakness' as a poor descriptor of what is going on with the 'old man' with temptation.

    As I showed above, I disagree that it is clear what he is saying. Either way, he is clear that the temptation does not in and of itself = sin, as the sin is not manifested until the will does certain things upon temptation.

    Still wrong, I think. I think you mistake what Calvin is saying.
     
  16. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Can God help us overcome our own struggles?
     
  17. Jesusfann777888

    Jesusfann777888 Member

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    you can be tempted because you are fallen, God can't be tempted because He Without Exception
    IS Holy.

    when it come's to your flesh The Bible Stipulate's to crucify your lustfully desires to avoid Condemnation.

    Living a Holy Life is meant to produce a renewal of the mind and a revulsion to the carnal, temptation can not be defeated physically because your flesh is responsible for your lust, therefore it must be defeated By God in your life.
     
  18. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As I understand it, God is at enmity with the flesh prior to conversion. The flesh is the beast that must be controlled by Christ who is the only one who can reign it in. The conversion process is illuminating.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 6:52 PM
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  19. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not only does Satan tempt, but we tempt ourselves sometimes.
     
  20. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    It's not.

    Yeah, well, everyone's got an opinion. I see no reason to defer to Calvin, and many reasons to not.
     
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