Is talking unkindly behind people's backs OK?

[dodger1234]

Hi. My wife and I have a 'deep' problem caused by this simple issue. Actually there are probably quite a few issues but this one is indicative. Please bear with my long winded question...

My view on life is to 'do to others as i would want them to do to me'. So, for me that means that i try to never to talk negatively about others if i can help it. For example, if my wife's friend (who's company i dont really enjoy) asks us for dinner i would try very hard to avoid saying or conveying anything negative about the event or the person.

My wife's view is different. She feels it is quite OK to be negative about a similar event. I don't mean she is being outright nasty - more uncharitable i guess. She is just expressing that she finds them tiring and really doesn't want to be going to their place for dinner. The general vibe is very negative.

Now here's the real problem. For me i would probably feel i was sinning or at least heading in that direction if i was being unkind to someone. My wife doesn't feel that it is wrong at all... until i ask her to explain why it is OK. She finds it very difficult to explain why it is OK for her to do and say things about others she wouldn't like done or said about herself. So then she feels guilty.

This does two things: it ailenates her from me ('he thinks i am terrible person') and from God ('i AM sinning'). So she no longer feels she can be herself and talk 'freely' to me because i will judge her - so she pretends to be someone she's not when around me. But this pretending can only last for so long. She needs to be able to relate freely with someone and so, sadly in the past, this has resulted in adultery.

What is the solution here? It seems that i must genuinely change my view on such things so that i accept as OK my wife's way of doing things. But i cant see any Biblical reson to do so. But while my wife perceives that i think she is doing the 'wrong thing' then she feels ailenated from me which is very bad. It seems impossible for her not to feel 'judged' when she and i both know she is doing something that i would not do.

 

[Lifesaver]

I don't know...
Was she talking unkindly, as in wanting to be mean with them, or just stating her honest opinion?
It's not a sin at all to find someone annoying or tedious, or not to want to be someone's friend.
That doesn't mean we don't love them (to love is to want what is best for them).

 

[hugoguttman]

We are not apples in candy to be nice people to everyone. And as the same time, there will be people who simply does not get any funny to us even if they are kind people. But what is not right in my opinion, is to talk unkindly at their backs. It´s some kind of cowardly action.
Second...YOU MUST UNDERSTAND NOT EVERY PERSON IN THIS WOLRD THINK AS YOU DO. We must be flexible and respect other people point of view instead trying to impose our thinking.

 

[Magisterium]

Hi. My wife and I have a 'deep' problem caused by this simple issue. Actually there are probably quite a few issues but this one is indicative. Please bear with my long winded question...

My view on life is to 'do to others as i would want them to do to me'. So, for me that means that i try to never to talk negatively about others if i can help it. For example, if my wife's friend (who's company i dont really enjoy) asks us for dinner i would try very hard to avoid saying or conveying anything negative about the event or the person.

My wife's view is different. She feels it is quite OK to be negative about a similar event. I don't mean she is being outright nasty - more uncharitable i guess. She is just expressing that she finds them tiring and really doesn't want to be going to their place for dinner. The general vibe is very negative.

Now here's the real problem. For me i would probably feel i was sinning or at least heading in that direction if i was being unkind to someone. My wife doesn't feel that it is wrong at all... until i ask her to explain why it is OK. She finds it very difficult to explain why it is OK for her to do and say things about others she wouldn't like done or said about herself. So then she feels guilty.

This does two things: it ailenates her from me ('he thinks i am terrible person') and from God ('i AM sinning'). So she no longer feels she can be herself and talk 'freely' to me because i will judge her - so she pretends to be someone she's not when around me. But this pretending can only last for so long. She needs to be able to relate freely with someone and so, sadly in the past, this has resulted in adultery.

What is the solution here? It seems that i must genuinely change my view on such things so that i accept as OK my wife's way of doing things. But i cant see any Biblical reson to do so. But while my wife perceives that i think she is doing the 'wrong thing' then she feels ailenated from me which is very bad. It seems impossible for her not to feel 'judged' when she and i both know she is doing something that i would not do.

First of all, you are not alone. I find myself in the same type of discussions with my wife often.

The first think I would suggest to you is to recognize your position in this case of leadership. You've been given the gift of wisdom in this case. Wisdom in the spiritual sense is the gift of seeing things as God sees them. As such, you have a moral obligation to share that wisdom with your wife.

Next, we'll address the problem of the guilt. In modern society, we're led to believe that all guilt is baseless and the result of some psychosis. However, guilt is also the natural result of offense against truth and justice. In this case, the conscience of your wife bothers her when she cannot find justification for her actions. When we feel guilt, there are two options. We can recognize that we've offended and seek to make reparation, or we can allow pride to dismiss the guilt with impunity and contine on our current course. In this case, you have to help your wife to take the former option.

Finally, we come to the problem of judging. This is another problem in our society today (particularly among Christians). We fail too often to recognize the difference between judging actions and attitudes and judging persons. We are forbidden as Christians to judge one another, however, we are instructed to "admonish" one another time and again in the NT. Admonishment can only come through the judging and condemning of actions. You should make your wife aware of the fact that you are not judging her, but judging her actions according to what is required of her as a Christian.

In closing, pride is a terrible obstacle to sanctification. As the one gifted with wisdom in this matter however, you have a moral obligation to help your wife to come to understand the nature of her actions. I would suggest above all else, lots of quiet prayer and asking particularly for God to grant you the tact and grace to help your wife. Above all, let your motivation in correcting this problem be the love of your wife and desire for her sanctification and not your own desire to "fix her". If love is your motive and prayer your guide, success will be your result.

God love you.

 

[CRitabe]

As the one gifted with wisdom in this matter however, you have a moral obligation to help your wife to come to understand the nature of her actions.

I really have to take issue with this statement and feel that this attitude (from a woman's point of view) might be enough to cause a wife to want to seek understanding and comfort from someone who will not judge her, put her down nor make her feel inadequate. She is seeking someone who will appreciate her, value her opinion, and hear her when she speaks.

For starters, I do not believe that the gift of wisdom is "gender specific." I believe that if a man "believes in his heart" that he alone has the "gift of wisdom", he is going to act like it, which sets up a situation of inequality similar to the role of parent/child or employer/employee. That does not work in marriage. A marriage is a relationship based on equality and mutual vulnerability. You might win a battle or two with this attitude, but believe me, you will lose the war!!

"you have a moral obligation to help your wife to come to understand the nature of her actions." Again, that is something that a parent has an obligation to a child to do. A child is one that doesn't understand the implications and consequences of his/her actions. A wife is an adult - obviously - if she is of the legal age of marriage. Women need and want to be treated as adults in intimate relationships - otherwise, they cannot be affectionate to the designated person in charge. A man is called to "love" his wife - that is all. He is not her teacher, her moral authority, her God. He is a human being as she is and just as vulnerable (or should be) as she is - and just because he is called "man" does not give him license to be the "moral police" in his relationship.

If your wife is unhappy enough to be seeking "love" or "acceptance" from another man - I would say that your marriage is in serious trouble and I would try to get into couples therapy of some sort to try to work through some of the issues before you lose her completely. Doing more of the same is going to yield the same results. Sounds like you truly care about her or else you are looking for someone to "agree" with you. If it is the latter, you might want to ask yourself if you had "rather be right than happy?"

 

[Magisterium]

You've completely misread my post. I didn't say or imply that he had been given the gift of wisdom in all matters and that his wife was therefore subject to him. In fact, even in the one line you quoted from me, I was careful to state "in this case" which is the case of gossip.

The problem is that read my post through the lense of radical feminism. Everything I said in my post refers to the situation being discussed and not to a general condition of male superiority. If you go through my post history you'll see that I've given identical advice to women who's men have been wrong and too prideful to accept admonishment.

The moral obligation to admonish one's spouse when they sin rests on both members of the union. Further, the idea that admonishment is strictly between parents and children is a tremendous obstacle in marriage and in life itself. The fact is, God has blessed us all with varying strengths and weaknesses in order that we may assist eachother in persuing Christian perfection. This is especially true in family life.

It's been written that pride is the reservoir of all sin. This is particularly true when it prevents us from accepting correction from those who love us which would allow us to grow in sanctification and grace.

 

[CRitabe]

The first think I would suggest to you is to recognize your position in this case of leadership. You've been given the gift of wisdom in this case. Wisdom in the spiritual sense is the gift of seeing things as God sees them. As such, you have a moral obligation to share that wisdom with your wife.

The first thing you said in your post was paraphrased: that you had these same sorts of conversations with your wife. I can believe that.

You also have said "to recognize your position in this case of leadership." As I said, it is my belief that a marriage is a joining of two equal and mutually vulnerable beings. It is not a master/servant relationship. If you believe that you have the "position of leadership", then you are going to act as an Authority. Right?? I don't believe that this position is one of a radical feminist - it is one of a human being. There are times when a woman seeks to have the "control" in a relationship just as there are men that seek it.

"Wisdom in the spiritual sense is the gift of seeing things as God sees them." What happened to the verse in the Bible that says that man's ways are not My ways and that His thoughts are high above our thoughts? Who am I to think that I can see things the way that God sees them, much less understand them as He understands them?

Radical feminist or not, if my spouse comes to me and says that he has a moral obligation to share God's wisdom with me - I'm at best suspect. He had better be a really, really Godlike human being if he convinces me that he has a direct line to God about my behavior.

All I have to say is "how is your attitude working for you?"

 

[Magisterium]

The first thing you said in your post was paraphrased: that you had these same sorts of conversations with your wife. I can believe that.

You also have said "to recognize your position in this case of leadership." As I said, it is my belief that a marriage is a joining of two equal and mutually vulnerable beings. It is not a master/servant relationship. If you believe that you have the "position of leadership", then you are going to act as an Authority. Right?? I don't believe that this position is one of a radical feminist - it is one of a human being. There are times when a woman seeks to have the "control" in a relationship just as there are men that seek it.

"Wisdom in the spiritual sense is the gift of seeing things as God sees them." What happened to the verse in the Bible that says that man's ways are not My ways and that His thoughts are high above our thoughts? Who am I to think that I can see things the way that God sees them, much less understand them as He understands them?

Radical feminist or not, if my spouse comes to me and says that he has a moral obligation to share God's wisdom with me - I'm at best suspect. He had better be a really, really Godlike human being if he convinces me that he has a direct line to God about my behavior.

All I have to say is "how is your attitude working for you?"

It's working quite well in fact. The reason it works quite well is because I likewise accept admonishment from my wife when I'm the one behaving as I shouldn't. In some cases, she is the one who excercises leadership if she has been so blessed, and in other cases, I do.

Clearly you have a worldly understanding of what leadership is. Christian leadership is servitude as our Lord so clearly instructed us time and again. "The greater you are, humble yourself all the more". "To whom much has been given, much will be required" For the Christian, to lead is to serve.

Unfortunately, in your mind, to lead is to be master of or to dominate. This is untrue.

 

[Talmidah]

Is talking unkindly behind people's backs OK?

No.

 

[CRitabe]

This is particularly true when it prevents us from accepting correction from those who love us which would allow us to grow in sanctification and grace.

I think we are having a difference in semantics, not concepts. It seems to me that when we use terminology such as "leadership", "correction" and "admonishment"; we are setting up a hierarchical form of thinking and feeling and as the Bible says, what is in your heart (your feeling) will come out of your mouth.

Again, I believe that a relationship takes place between equals (not leaders or servants) sharing mutual vulnerability. Does that mean that we can't talk about things that bother us - communicate about sticky topics - say Ouch when we are hurt or upset, etc.... No. However, I think that we have to be mindful of the position that we take when we communicate. If I believe that I have the "moral wisdom" in a situation; I will come across as being "morally superior" and it is the "superior" notion that is prideful in my opinion, which as you say, is a sin.

If someone has an issue with me; I'm all over them talking to me about it in a respectful manner. However, I will probably respond differently if I am spoken to in a spirit of "correction" or "admonishment" because both of those terms indicate that I'm wrong and you are right before we even speak. Does that make sense??

I think that is what the guy was talking about originally when he started this thread - it is the response that he was getting from his wife that he was struggling with when he condemned her behavior. Again, condemnation or judgment starts in the heart and you don't even have to verbalize it for it to be felt and understood. His attitude was hurting her and thus, distancing her from him. I'm trying to say that I think as men, sometimes you guys see your role differently than women see it and part of that is truly understandable considering our culture and the attitude that the "man is responsible for the behavior of his family". I'm just saying that if he perhaps tweaks the attitude - a whole lot will change in a relationship and much for the better. Women want respect and validation (as equals) in their relationship - from their husbands - utmost and when they receive that - they will absolutely jump through hoops to make you happy. That is what we all seek I think is to be able to live in "one accord."

Peace