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Is Silence Acceptance?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by zephcom, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    It may make people feel better to believe -they- have the 'ears to hear', but that doesn't change the reality that Christianity is being defined by the radical right because far too many other Christians are too busy to do more than go to church on Sundays.
     
  2. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    (duplicate)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  3. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    I asked for a specific example to substantiate your claim that...
    Could you please provide one?



    Perhaps the disconnect here is that you reject the basic tenets of Christianity while you purport to tell Christians what it means to follow our Lord and Savior. I trust you see the irony in that.
     
  4. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    No irony. Christianity has had it wrong since the Fourth Century when Constantine made his bargain with Christian Bishops to make Christianity a state religion if the Bishops would impose order on Christians. It was essentially the same offer Jesus turned down when Satan made it to Him in the desert.

    Christianity has been pursuing physical realm goals instead of Divine goals ever since.

    I only relate what Jesus said one has to do if one is a follower. What I say comes right out of the sacred text canonized by Christianity. What Christianity teaches often is not found in that sacred text at all. For instance, the creed which defines the nature of Jesus most Christians 'believe in' is not found in the Bible. The Trinity concept is not found in the Bible either.

    I trust you see the irony in following a religion which doesn't even follow its own sacred text.
     
  5. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually, it (i.e. the concept of the Trinity) is found in the Bible.

    But one would have to be a student of the Bible, as I have been for the last 35 years, to know that.

    Have you read through the Bible ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  6. PsychoSarah

    PsychoSarah Chaotic Neutral

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    Only to people ignorant enough to think that the wingnuts shown in the media are an accurate representation of Christianity as a whole, when it is very simple to realize that media coverage caters extremes.
     
  7. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    This being the same sacred text you disregard as corrupt?

    Were you going to provide that example? As someone whose studied the Bible for mamy years I’m quite curious. Thanks again.
     
  8. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Lay it out for me. I've been down this road many, many times. I've had people cherry picking passages from all over the Bible trying to make believe the Trinity is found in the Bible.

    It just isn't there.

    But I will be happy to look at your evidence. And if I find it convincing, I'm happy to change my mind. It isn't important enough to me fight over convincing evidence.

    But I will warn you up front, if your evidence is that you have studied the Bible for 35 years and you 'know' it is there or I have to park logic on the side of the street to 'see' it, I'm going to put you in the category of yet another failed attempt.
     
  9. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    It is not -my- sacred text. But it -is- the sacred text of Christianity. It -is- the text that Christians use when they want to put on their sanctimonious face and declare "The BIBLE says..."

    Interesting that when -I- say, "The Bible says...." someone jumps up and says but you don't believe it. Yet they think if they say, "The Bible says...." I'm going to suddenly say, "Oh My Gosh, THE BIBLE SAYS THAT".

    The point is, it doesn't matter what I think of the Bible. It matters what Christians think of the Bible. If the Christian sacred text says something and they ignore it, it impacts their credibility, not mine.
     
  10. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Of course the media caters to the extremes. And those extremes use that to their advantage. That advantage means -they- get to create the message of what Christianity is about.

    In America we have allowed the extremes of the Islamic religion to define Islam for us. We view Islam through the eyes of the extremists instead of through the eyes of the moderate, peace loving majority. Our government is trying to target Muslims because their extremists define their religion for us.

    Why on earth would we think that our extremists are not defining Christianity the same way for the rest of the world??
     
  11. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    One could also criticise Jim Wallis' alignment with the Democrat platform, and his acceptance of abortion.
     
  12. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Go ahead. Please provide evidence so we can have a basis to discuss it.
     
  13. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you accuse people of cherry picking scripture to suit their needs when that is precisely what you yourself are doing, without a single citation sans one vague reference to the Sermon on the Mount? I have no doubt you truly believe what you believe, but the net sum of your argument here is a litany of accusations with no actual examples. Strawmen make fine Halloween decorations, but horrible debate points.
     
  14. Liza B.

    Liza B. His grace is sufficient Supporter

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    Let's see how much you really like it from the other side, shall we?

    Yes indeed, when you become a Christian, you are supposed to follow Jesus. That means loving, giving, being compassionate "laying down your life".

    It means being salt and light. In my experience, people really love the light part. Not so much the sale part. Let's see if I'm right:

    Jesus had very strong words against lust, sexual sin, adultery and divorce. Jesus said you must love Him more than you love family. That's following Him too. You cool with that?

    Jesus said to His disciples, if you go into a town and the peace returns to you, wipe the dust off your feet and move on. You're not beholden to stay and pet them or make them feel better about their rejection and sin, basically. You cool with that?

    Jesus spoke more about Hell than any other person in the Bible, including weeping and gnashing of teeth. That's the Biblical Jesus. You like that Jesus?

    You should really tell us what Jesus you mean--the one that will make people feel good no matter what choices they make, and that everyone "Says" Christians should follow, or the one that is actually portrayed in the Bible.
     
  15. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Which of Jesus' teachings are to be followed and which are to be ignored? I do not see any particular Christian sub group that could not be accused of heresy by another sub group by what they either champion or allow within their ranks, so why pick on just the one the group you call the religious right? Everyone interprets the teachings of Jesus in their own way and I am not going to insist all interpretations but mine are incorrect. So silence may mean acceptance of a particular interpretation, it may be a rejection of the idea that the interpretation is somehow objectively wrong or it may mean that the person is actually following Jesus commands to avoid self righteousness and be non judgmental
     
  16. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    The Bible defines what a Christian is.... Not the left or the right.. They take turns in dominating the Media but they do not define what Christianity is.. People who seek God in a genuine way are not affected by who dominates the Media.. They focus on God and seek his will and are prepared to stand with Him, even if they are shunned by the world..
     
  17. Liza B.

    Liza B. His grace is sufficient Supporter

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    I agree with this. Jesus Christ transcends politics...thank God.
     
  18. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The concept of the Trinity is, simply, one which correlates the fact that the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit are all referred to as God in the scriptures ...

    Father — Galatians 1:1

    Son — John 1:1, John 20:28

    Spirit — Acts 5:3-4

    ... with the Bible's concurrent declaration ... that God is One God.

    For instance, the Bible contains numerous clear statements regarding the unity of God: Deuteronomy 6:4 tells us that "the Lord is one." 1 Corinthians 8:4 adds that "there is no God but one." 1 Timothy 2:5 explicitly says "there is one God." All Christians heartily affirm this truth.

    However, the Bible also contains clear statements regarding diversity within that unity. For instance, in the very first verse of the Bible we are told that "In the beginning God." The Hebrew word for God is elohim, which is actually a plural form of the word el. It's a word that in other contexts is sometimes translated as "gods," referring to heathen deities. Later in the same chapter we have one of the most striking statements of diversity-in-unity:

    Then God said, ‘‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:26-27

    Finally, all three Persons are associated together on an equal basis in numerous passages:

    Regarding Jesus' baptism—Matthew 3:13-17 (voice of the Father, Son baptized, Spirit descending like a dove).

    Regarding Salvation—1 Peter 1:2 (chosen by the Father, sanctified by the Spirit, sprinkled with the blood of Jesus).

    Regarding Sanctification—2 Corinthians 13:14 (grace of the Lord Jesus, love of God, fellowship of the Holy Spirit).

    Regarding Christian Baptism—Matthew 28:19 (baptized in one name, yet three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

    Regarding Prayer—Ephesians 3:14-21 (strengthened by his Spirit, know the love of Christ, filled with the fullness of God).

    Regarding Christian Growth—2 Thessalonians 2:13 (chosen by God, loved by the Lord, sanctified by the Spirit).

    Now the way that I have come to understand that correlation as in a family ...

    I, my father, mother, brothers, sisters, ... and some uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. all SHARE the same last name (let's say "Harris") ... and could be referred to, correctly, by that name ... at any given time. In fact, that was the sole way that my mother-in-law would refer to me .... "Harris ... ".

    So, we are ALL correctly identified as "Harris", ... though, at the same time, we are all DIFFERENT persons. We are ALL "Harris".

    In the same way, I believe that God is a family (which christians call the Godhead/Trinity), made up of the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.

    This is not surprising, ... since God is a God of families.

    The concept really is not all that difficult ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  19. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused. How can I be cherry-picking scripture -and- not have a single citation sans one vague reference to the Sermon on the Mount?
     
  20. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Your concept, as you laid it out here, makes sense...Three beings with the surname of God. The problem is that you have created a polytheistic God. That is not all that far fetched because a polytheistic God was one of the options on the table when Christian Bishops were trying to please Constantine and win the coveted 'state religion' title.

    It was, eventually, defeated in favor of the Trinity God which is a single God with multiple personalities. It appears the need to maintain the mono-theistic God concept to appeal to Jews (remember, Jesus was a Jew and Christianity usurped the Jewish history as its own) and to present a complete contrast to the multitude of pagan Roman gods won the day.

    I think it is easy to present Biblical data suggesting some extremely advanced spiritual levels for Jesus. Chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians certainly makes the case for Jesus being such an advanced being that the Father gave Him complete control of the earth. But it also clearly makes the case that Jesus is inferior to the Father and willingly makes Himself subject to the Father.

    The same chapter also appears to make the case that Jesus was as human as Adam was. Given that within a few verses Paul has declared Jesus both human AND spiritually advanced enough to defeat even death raises the suspicion that you and I and the over seven billion other people now alive on the planet have, at least, the potential of becoming as spiritually advanced as Jesus is.
     
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