Is Silence Acceptance?

[zephcom]

No

Then what is it? Surely you aren't proposing that the person who is silent on all issues oppose all issues?

 

[A_Thinker]

The religious right have every right to pursue their goals no matter how hateful and divisive they are. That isn't my complaint. My complaint is that a whole lot of Americans who -should- know that behavior reflects badly on both Christianity and Jesus because these people allow them to enact their hatefulness and divisiveness under the banner of Christianity.

And what would you have these other christians to do ? Jesus said that LOVE is what will matter to those with the discernment to look for the followers of Christ.

You do know that Christianity has stood for 2,000 years, in many different forms, some better, some worse. And the followers of CHrist have loved across 2,000 years. Don't fear that a 50 year political movement (i.e. the Religious Right) will obliterate that history.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Then what is it? Surely you aren't proposing that the person who is silent on all issues oppose all issues?

It's silence.

If someone is given two choices, neither of which they like, and they abstain from both (silence) have they approved either choice?

 

[zephcom]

And what would you have these other christians to do ? Jesus said that LOVE is what will matter to those with the discernment to look for the followers of Christ.

You do know that Christianity has stood for 2,000 years, in many different forms, some better, some worse. And the followers of CHrist have loved across 2,000 years. Don't fear that a 50 year political movement (i.e. the Religious Right) will obliterate that history.

What would I have these other Christians to do?? I would have them out in their communities protecting and shielding those who are the targets of the religious right. I would have them confronting those in their communities who support the behavior of the religious right by telling them they are NOT following the teachings of Jesus and should stop using His title to describe themselves.

Self-sacrificing Love would indicate that these other Christians would be in the streets being the first to take the rubber bullets and tear gas as government tries to increase the oppression of minorities.

Jesus set a high bar. Even though He could have brought a legion of angels to His defense, He allowed government to show who and what it was as they killed Him. He took the lead. He was the first. But through the First and Second Century many many others followed Him down that path as they exposed the Roman Empire for what it was through self-sacrificing love.

One of the most impressive things I've ever seen was during a live stream on Twitter during the Ferguson protests when a young Black man...I would guess no more than 20 years old...was standing two feet from a police officer yelling at him. You could see the officer was starting to get agitated.

A Black woman wedged herself between the man and the officer. She was about two-thirds the size of the young man. She talked him down, got him to move away and prevented what could have been a very violent confrontation.

THAT is self-sacrificing love. THAT is where these other Christians should be. They should be on the front lines lifting up the poor, oppressed and hated, protecting them from danger and pushing them to ever greater heights. And they should be doing it regardless of the danger to themselves, their lively-hood, or any other earthly concern.

That is where one would find Jesus.

 

[zephcom]

It's silence.

If someone is given two choices, neither of which they like, and they abstain from both (silence) have they approved either choice?

I refer you back to the poem by Pastor Martin Neimoller.

Silence is NOT abstention. One HAS to announce they are abstaining. Silence is condoning what is going on around one. Silence is not getting involved and just letting other actors decide the outcome.

We either all stand against hatred and bigotry or those promoting hatred and bigotry will 'cleanse' the nation one group at a time.

And atheists are on their list.

 

[A_Thinker]

What would I have these other Christians to do?? I would have them out in their communities protecting and shielding those who are the targets of the religious right. I would have them confronting those in their communities who support the behavior of the religious right by telling them they are NOT following the teachings of Jesus and should stop using His title to describe themselves.

Self-sacrificing Love would indicate that these other Christians would be in the streets being the first to take the rubber bullets and tear gas as government tries to increase the oppression of minorities.

Jesus set a high bar. Even though He could have brought a legion of angels to His defense, He allowed government to show who and what it was as they killed Him. He took the lead. He was the first. But through the First and Second Century many many others followed Him down that path as they exposed the Roman Empire for what it was through self-sacrificing love.

One of the most impressive things I've ever seen was during a live stream on Twitter during the Ferguson protests when a young Black man...I would guess no more than 20 years old...was standing two feet from a police officer yelling at him. You could see the officer was starting to get agitated.

A Black woman wedged herself between the man and the officer. She was about two-thirds the size of the young man. She talked him down, got him to move away and prevented what could have been a very violent confrontation.

THAT is self-sacrificing love. THAT is where these other Christians should be. They should be on the front lines lifting up the poor, oppressed and hated, protecting them from danger and pushing them to ever greater heights. And they should be doing it regardless of the danger to themselves, their lively-hood, or any other earthly concern.

That is where one would find Jesus.

You would place Jesus among the Jewish Zealots of His day. That is not the role that Jesus undertook ...

 

[W2L]

nm

 

[Ana the Ist]

I refer you back to the poem by Pastor Martin Neimoller.

Silence is NOT abstention. One HAS to announce they are abstaining.

Why? Also, why should I care what pastor poetry has to say on the matter?

Silence is condoning what is going on around one. Silence is not getting involved and just letting other actors decide the outcome.

I don't see that it is.

We either all stand against hatred and bigotry or those promoting hatred and bigotry will 'cleanse' the nation one group at a time.

And atheists are on their list.

Not worried about it. Nice fear mongering though.

 

[Thedictator]

Signing a letter opposing the president's orders has nothing at all to do with reclaiming one's religion. That is a purely political stance, not a religious stance. I agree, Immigration has nothing to do with Christian teaching. The Bible is silent on immigration, so what side you choose is your right to do so.

'They' are telling the world that Christianity is this evil, hateful religion which only favors white, capitalist, patriarchal Americans. And they have an entire history of Christians in America that verifies they are right. This is just a bigoted statement that needs no comment.

And there are very few willing to reveal the real Jesus to the world because...maybe it is because...no one really believes that what Jesus taught is valid. Maybe it is because Christianity has spent so much effort teaching that everyone is such a failure in God's eyes that they long ago gave up even taking the first step in following Jesus. Again a bigoted, untrue stereotypical statement about a group of people you have no idea what they are teaching or what they believe. You know what every Christian in the world is doing and thinking? I bet not. I for one spent years in the mission field teaching about Jesus Christ to people in many countries. As for as being Failures in the eyes of God I have never believed that or taught that and have never heard that in any sermon or Bible Study in the 40 years that I have been a Christian.

Christianity wants people to believe they are failures, totally incapable of doing what Jesus asks. And Christianity wants people to believe that even though Jesus said differently.
I have never heard anyone say this or teach this in any Christian Church in my 40 years as a Christian. And I have been to hundreds of Churches all around this world.


Look at John 14:12 NIV:

12 "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

Jesus believes in you. YOU have to believe in Jesus.

 

[zephcom]

You would place Jesus among the Jewish Zealots of His day. That is not the role that Jesus undertook ...

Was it not the Jewish Zealots who were looking for a military commander to lead the Zealots in battle against the Roman Empire??

That is not where I've placed Him. I've placed Him right where He would be, looking after those people who are poor, oppressed, ostracized by community and culture, and otherwise down-trodden.

I've put Him in that place the Black woman...protecting, keep others safe, putting herself in path of danger to do that. I suspect that a great many of these other Christians don't see Jesus there either.

They see Him holding a job, coming home to a wife and family, and not making waves in the community. He got Himself KILLED for sedition.

 

[Thedictator]

I don't recall saying anything about Clinton. Frankly that has nothing at all to do with the behavior of the religious right in regard to its behavior toward the president.

You keep making general statement about so called Christian Behavior without any example of bad behavior or that Christians do not follow Jesus, just how do they not follow Jesus?

 

[Thedictator]

I'm not asking anyone to speak out against a national leader. I'm asking people to correct those people within their own religion for their heresy. In Matthew 18 Jesus teaches that it is the responsibility of believers to correct brothers and sisters when they 'sin'.

Again what heresy are you talking about? give examples.

 

[Thedictator]

Is not refusal to follow Jesus' teachings while claiming to be a follower not considered heresy???

If not, why not?

Give Examples

 

[Thedictator]

Of course not all Christians are white, capitalists or patriarchal. But look around America. That does describe a rather huge amount of people who vote in American elections.
Whites make up about 73% of America, could that be the reason for the large number of white voters? I go to Church with whites, blacks, some who are former Muslims from the Middle East, some American Indians, Hispanics and others, race does not matter to us, it only matters to the racist leftist and liberals who call them sale outs because they worship with white people.

The religious right have every right to pursue their goals no matter how hateful and divisive they are. That isn't my complaint. My complaint is that a whole lot of Americans who -should- know that behavior reflects badly on both Christianity and Jesus because these people allow them to enact their hatefulness and divisiveness under the banner of Christianity. Examples of Hate and divisiveness please ?

If people really think that Christianity represents Loving Behavior toward others, they should either reclaim their religion or accept that it is lost forever and start a religion that DOES follow Jesus' teachings.
It sounds like you have a lot of personal opinions about Christianity and very little truth to go with those opinions.

 

[Thedictator]

Obviously. And I lay that problem at the doorstep of Christianity because it is a failed religion. It turned its back on Jesus and is wandering aimlessly in a desert.

Self-sacrificing Love for others is so rare in America that the news media has to write stories about 'heroes' when they practice it.

The New Media, really !!

 

[zephcom]

You keep making general statement about so called Christian Behavior without any example of bad behavior or that Christians do not follow Jesus, just how do they not follow Jesus?

Jesus is recorded in Matthew 5-7 giving a long discourse which is labelled as a sermon. When one reads through that sermon one can just about tick off item after item that Christians don't follow. Jesus says to not resist and evil man, yet Christians are the first to rush to join armies to fight 'evil men'. Jesus says Blessed are the Peacemakers for they will be called Children of God, yet Christians not only join armies to break the peace but send Chaplains to help the government keep Christians killing others.

Jesus teaches that beyond not murdering, if one is even angry at a brother or sister they will be subject to judgement. Being angry at others seems almost a natural state for Christians in America. They are angry when someone gets an abortion, they are angry if someone wants to marry another of their same sex, they get angry if others even belong to the wrong political party.

Jesus set the bar for adultery higher than His own religion. He says that even looking at a woman lustfully is adultery. The Internet inappropriate content providers say their highest number of customers comes from portions of America with the highest level of 'Christians'. A significant number of these same Christians VOTED for a candidate who claims to be able to grab women by the crotch and kiss them.

Jesus says to love one's enemy. Yet, as I've already pointed out, Christians actively participate in killing their enemies by joining the military. Killing enemies simply can not be considered loving.

And that is just a third of the way through that one sermon.

The next chapter holds my all time favorite denial of Jesus' authority. Jesus tells His followers to not pray in public. He even tells them precisely HOW to pray. And Christians happily ignore the entire teaching because someone told them it doesn't apply to -them- even though Jesus was instructing -them-.

And those are just examples. The real clincher is how often Jesus Second Commandment is ignored. These 'religious right' Christians support taking medical care away from millions of Americans in a manner which there is no way anyone can consider an act of 'Loving'. They need the money to make America's military an even more potent killing machine.

 

[Thedictator]

Obviously. And I lay that problem at the doorstep of Christianity because it is a failed religion. It turned its back on Jesus and is wandering aimlessly in a desert.

Self-sacrificing Love for others is so rare in America that the news media has to write stories about 'heroes' when they practice it.

If you are getting your information about Christianity from the Media then you are getting a very bias, one sided, distorted view.

 

[zephcom]

Again what heresy are you talking about? give examples.

Is it not a sin to not follow Jesus' teachings and still claim to be a follower of Jesus??

Jesus set a high bar. If you decide that it is not for you, the decent thing to do is give back the title of Christian. Christ is, after all, His title. Pretending to be His while ignoring his teachings is....well....sinful. Right?

 

[Thedictator]

Jesus is recorded in Matthew 5-7 giving a long discourse which is labelled as a sermon. When one reads through that sermon one can just about tick off item after item that Christians don't follow. Jesus says to not resist and evil man, yet Christians are the first to rush to join armies to fight 'evil men'. Jesus says Blessed are the Peacemakers for they will be called Children of God, yet Christians not only join armies to break the peace but send Chaplains to help the government keep Christians killing others.

Jesus teaches that beyond not murdering, if one is even angry at a brother or sister they will be subject to judgement. Being angry at others seems almost a natural state for Christians in America. They are angry when someone gets an abortion, they are angry if someone wants to marry another of their same sex, they get angry if others even belong to the wrong political party.

Jesus set the bar for adultery higher than His own religion. He says that even looking at a woman lustfully is adultery. The Internet inappropriate content providers say their highest number of customers comes from portions of America with the highest level of 'Christians'. A significant number of these same Christians VOTED for a candidate who claims to be able to grab women by the crotch and kiss them.

Jesus says to love one's enemy. Yet, as I've already pointed out, Christians actively participate in killing their enemies by joining the military. Killing enemies simply can not be considered loving.

And that is just a third of the way through that one sermon.

The next chapter holds my all time favorite denial of Jesus' authority. Jesus tells His followers to not pray in public. He even tells them precisely HOW to pray. And Christians happily ignore the entire teaching because someone told them it doesn't apply to -them- even though Jesus was instructing -them-.

And those are just examples. The real clincher is how often Jesus Second Commandment is ignored. These 'religious right' Christians support taking medical care away from millions of Americans in a manner which there is no way anyone can consider an act of 'Loving'. They need the money to make America's military an even more potent killing machine.

First you have taken a lot of these verses out of context for your own political agenda, and have set up a whole self-righteous judgment against all Christians who don't meet your political criteria of what a Christian should be. Sorry I don't care for any man made criteria. Have a good night.

 

[zephcom]

[

First you have taken a lot of these verses out of context for your own political agenda, and have set up a whole self-righteous judgment against all Christians who don't meet your political criteria of what a Christian should be. Sorry I don't care for any man made criteria. Have a good night.

Actually, it really isn't my political agenda that gets in the way. I doubt I could have come up with the stuff Jesus taught even if I tried. If I were promoting a political agenda, it would be different than what Jesus was teaching.

These things are really the things Jesus taught...at least they are what the Bible records that He taught. And the Bible records Jesus as saying that those who love Him will (emphasis is mine) follow His teachings.

If one wants to find the real problem, one should examine Christianity and how it has modified Jesus into someone completely different than the Jesus of the Bible.

You have a good evening also.