Is Silence Acceptance?

keith99

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And what would you have these other christians to do ? Jesus said that LOVE is what will matter to those with the discernment to look for the followers of Christ.

You do know that Christianity has stood for 2,000 years, in many different forms, some better, some worse. And the followers of CHrist have loved across 2,000 years. Don't fear that a 50 year political movement (i.e. the Religious Right) will obliterate that history.

The Religious Right is part and parcel of that history. For most of those 2000 years Christians have persecuted those who belonged to a different sect. They are not an aberration, they are typical and far more restrained than was the case for much of the past. Though I tend to credit that to being in a secular society, not a big difference in their nature.
 
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A_Thinker

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Was it not the Jewish Zealots who were looking for a military commander to lead the Zealots in battle against the Roman Empire??

That is not where I've placed Him. I've placed Him right where He would be, looking after those people who are poor, oppressed, ostracized by community and culture, and otherwise down-trodden.

I've put Him in that place the Black woman...protecting, keep others safe, putting herself in path of danger to do that. I suspect that a great many of these other Christians don't see Jesus there either.

And there are christians who do all of these things, including voting for equal rights, establishing, funding, and manning missions and shelters to the poor and oppressed, etc.

They're just not the LOUD christians.

You are familiar with several of these missions (i.e. the Salvation Army, Compassion International, World Vision, Samaritan's Purse, Food for the Hungry, Children's Hunger Fund, Lutheran World Relief, Operation Blessing, etc.). You should also recall that christians were highly involved in the Abolitionist movement, as was Martin Luther King Jr. in the effort to obtain Civil Rights for African-Americans and others.
 
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A_Thinker

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They see Him holding a job, coming home to a wife and family, and not making waves in the community. He got Himself KILLED for sedition.

There's pastoral advice in the New Testament (from Paul) about this very thing ...

1 Thessalonians 4

9 Now about brotherly love, you do not need anyone to write to you, because you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another. 10 And indeed, you are showing this love to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. But we urge you, brothers, to excel more and more 11 and to aspire to live quietly, to attend to your own matters, and to work with your own hands, as we instructed you.

P.S. Jesus was setup to be killed by some in the Jewish religious hierarchy. Though He had never said anything against Rome, the Jewish religious leaders lied and said that He counseled sedition.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Jesus teaches that beyond not murdering, if one is even angry at a brother or sister they will be subject to judgement. Being angry at others seems almost a natural state for Christians in America. They are angry when someone gets an abortion, they are angry if someone wants to marry another of their same sex,
You're confusing selfish anger with righteous anger. Anger over sin is righteous (Matthew 21:12-17).

they get angry if others even belong to the wrong political party.
Friend, the only one I've seen here apparently angry about others being in the "wrong" political party self identifies as a deist, not a Christian.

Jesus set a high bar. If you decide that it is not for you, the decent thing to do is give back the title of Christian. Christ is, after all, His title. Pretending to be His while ignoring his teachings is....well....sinful. Right?
And thankfully, no where did Jesus say to clean up our acts up before we come to Him. We are all sinners -- you, me, everyone -- and we all fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Christ did not give His life for perfect people. He gave His life for sinners (Romans 5:8, Mark 2:17). Now of course, that doesn't mean we have a hall pass to continue sinning (Romans 6:1-2). But rather, we should humble ourselves before the Lord, submit to Him, and resist evil (James 4:6-8). And since we will occasionally fall short (Romans 3:23) upon doing so we should repent and receive the Lord's forgiveness (1 John 1:9). We should also be very careful to address our own sin before pointing fingers at others for their sins (Matthew 7:5).
 
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zephcom

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And there are christians who do all of these things, including voting for equal rights, establishing, funding, and manning missions and shelters to the poor and oppressed, etc.

They're just not the LOUD christians.

You are familiar with several of these missions (i.e. the Salvation Army, Compassion International, World Vision, Samaritan's Purse, Food for the Hungry, Children's Hunger Fund, Lutheran World Relief, Operation Blessing, etc.). You should also recall that christians were highly involved in the Abolitionist movement, as was Martin Luther King Jr. in the effort to obtain Civil Rights for African-Americans and others.

And where are they now while a radical branch of Christianity is defining Christianity for the world? Moderate Islam has long faced criticism in this country for not standing up and being counted in the battle against radical Islam.

Should Christians be granted special favors because they organized some charity programs? The radical right of Christianity has become the voice of Christianity simply because there is no other voice.

And the radical right plays right into the hands of those people who want to believe America represents the 'Great Satan'. For far too long Christians have been sitting in the comfort of their half million dollar homes, raising their 2.4 children and playing the game of capitalism believing that 'Jesus' will fix the mess.

I remember reading on Twitter two or three years ago one of the people involved in the Black Lives Matter movement asking a simple question: "Where are the churches?"

Apparently, the churches don't believe that Black lives do matter because they were AWOL. They were back home resting on the laurels of the people who came before them.
 
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zephcom

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You're confusing selfish anger with righteous anger. Anger over sin is righteous (Matthew 21:12-17).

Friend, the only one I've seen here apparently angry about others being in the "wrong" political party self identifies as a deist, not a Christian.

And thankfully, no where did Jesus say to clean up our acts up before we come to Him. We are all sinners -- you, me, everyone -- and we all fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Christ did not give His life for perfect people. He gave His life for sinners (Romans 5:8, Mark 2:17). Now of course, that doesn't mean we have a hall pass to continue sinning (Romans 6:1-2). But rather, we should humble ourselves before the Lord, submit to Him, and resist evil (James 4:6-8). And since we will occasionally fall short (Romans 3:23) upon doing so we should repent and receive the Lord's forgiveness (1 John 1:9). We should also be very careful to address our own sin before pointing fingers at others for their sins (Matthew 7:5).


Neither did I say anyone should clean up their acts before coming to Him. But it is clear from Jesus' teachings that once one HAS come to Him, He made it clear He expects them to follow His teachings.

Far too often people use that saying "we all fall short of the glory of God..." as an excuse to not even try. When one stops reading all the commentary by mere humans in the New Testament and just reads what Jesus said, it becomes really clear what is expected of those who Love Him.

Christianity doesn't want people to do that because they like doing what you just did...quote snippets of teachings from the commentary and ignore the teachings of the Master Teacher.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Neither did I say anyone should clean up their acts before coming to Him. But it is clear from Jesus' teachings that once one HAS come to Him, He made it clear He expects them to follow His teachings.
And part of that teaching is repentance when we stumble.

Far too often people use that saying "we all fall short of the glory of God..." as an excuse to not even try.
Which scripture also addresses, as I cited.

When one stops reading all the commentary by mere humans in the New Testament and just reads what Jesus said, it becomes really clear what is expected of those who Love Him.
It’s a common misconception by those outside (and some inside) the faith that scripture can be meaningfully divided into separate categories – Jesus’ quotes and all else. In reality, scripture is the inspired word of God. The same God who became man and uttered those words also guided “mere humans” to compile all of scripture. One cannot hope to understand God by studying only one small portion of scripture anymore than one could understand the workings of an internal combustion engine by being handed only a piston ring.

Christianity doesn't want people to do that because they like doing what you just did...quote snippets of teachings from the commentary and ignore the teachings of the Master Teacher.
Perhaps you overlooked my citations from Matthew and Mark. Regardless, once one understands what exactly scripture is they will then understand why it’s ALL the “teachings of [God].”
 
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jacks

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If they preach it but don't live it, yeah, they are failed religions. Look at the history of Christianity from the Fourth Century right up to the headlines of today. The article referenced in the OP is dated today.

Thank you for responding, and clarifying your views. Your stance is that any religion where the adherents don't live up to the tenants of their belief is a "failed religion". So it is not Christianity in particular; if this was a Hindu site, you would be saying that Hinduism is a "failed religion". Fair enough this is probably why you consider yourself a deist, which doesn't seem to have a moral code.
 
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zephcom

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And part of that teaching is repentance when we stumble.

Which scripture also addresses, as I cited.

It’s a common misconception by those outside (and some inside) the faith that scripture can be meaningfully divided into separate categories – Jesus’ quotes and all else. In reality, scripture is the inspired word of God. The same God who became man and uttered those words also guided “mere humans” to compile all of scripture. One cannot hope to understand God by studying only one small portion of scripture anymore than one could understand the workings of an internal combustion engine by being handed only a piston ring.

Perhaps you overlooked my citations from Matthew and Mark. Regardless, once one understands what exactly scripture is they will then understand why it’s ALL the “teachings of [God].”


The reality is that there is absolutely no reason for anyone to consider the entire N.T. to be 'inspired word of God'. Christianity created that myth so that it would have something to impeach the teachings of Jesus with.

Jesus is the only one who makes the claim that His teachings come directly from the Father. He never endorsed any writings which came after He left this realm as also being from the Father.

Jesus' teachings are complete within themselves. It is Jesus' teachings which convinced not only the apostles but the crowds which came to hear Him preach. The rest of the N.T. writings didn't exist for decades after Jesus taught. The Canon of the N.T. wasn't really finalized until Gutenberg made His printing press a millennium and a half after Jesus.

The other writings in the N.T. are just commentary written by mere humans and do not rise to the level of Jesus' teachings regardless of what Christianity tells you.
 
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Phil 1:21

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The reality is that there is absolutely no reason for anyone to consider the entire N.T. to be 'inspired word of God'. Christianity created that myth so that it would have something to impeach the teachings of Jesus with.

Jesus is the only one who makes the claim that His teachings come directly from the Father. He never endorsed any writings which came after He left this realm as also being from the Father.

Jesus' teachings are complete within themselves. It is Jesus' teachings which convinced not only the apostles but the crowds which came to hear Him preach. The rest of the N.T. writings didn't exist for decades after Jesus taught. The Canon of the N.T. wasn't really finalized until Gutenberg made His printing press a millennium and a half after Jesus.

The other writings in the N.T. are just commentary written by mere humans and do not rise to the level of Jesus' teachings regardless of what Christianity tells you.

Just for the sake of discussion, why do you trust what those "mere humans" recorded as Jesus' spoken words yet reject the validity of their other canonized writings, especially when those writings are not in conflict? I trust you know that Jesus didn't directly put pen to scroll to record his autobiography.
 
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Phil 1:21

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The reality is that there is absolutely no reason for anyone to consider the entire N.T. to be 'inspired word of God'. Christianity created that myth so that it would have something to impeach the teachings of Jesus with.
Please provide an example.
Jesus' teachings are complete within themselves.
As an exercise, using only Jesus' quotes in the NT, explain the significance of Calvary to us.
 
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zephcom

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Thank you for responding, and clarifying your views. Your stance is that any religion where the adherents don't live up to the tenants of their belief is a "failed religion". So it is not Christianity in particular; if this was a Hindu site, you would be saying that Hinduism is a "failed religion". Fair enough this is probably why you consider yourself a deist, which doesn't seem to have a moral code.

You are welcome. This is a Christian site so my discussions revolve around Christianity. But that does not mean other religions don't suffer the same issues.

Deism basically says there is a God but that God doesn't tinker with the physical realm. Given that, one wouldn't expect that a Deist would have a 'Divine' moral code. That does not presuppose that a Deist has no moral code.

For me, the morality found in Jesus teachings...regardless of who Jesus is/was...I have found to be compellingly accurate. One does not require a religion to live by Jesus' teachings. In fact, religion tends to get in the way of His teachings.

Jesus elevated human spirituality from a rules/law level of spirituality to a concept level of spirituality. Religion is functionally unable to deal with a concept driven spirituality. It requires rules/laws for it to function.

In Jesus' concept spirituality, one need only answer one question as they travel through life: Is my behavior towards others loving even to the detriment of myself?

Religion can't help you answer that question a thousand times a day. Jesus provided the guidance but following the guidance requires everyone to understand what loving behavior is and be able to accurately assess it within oneself. It is a much higher level of spirituality that goes far beyond being able to look something up in a law book.
 
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A_Thinker

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And where are they now while a radical branch of Christianity is defining Christianity for the world?

As you say ... Christianity depends upon the teachings of Christ, ... and nowhere in Christ's teachings is any instruction to wrangle with any others for the title of "true christians".

Jesus, essentially, said that christians will be known for their LOVING works, ... rather than their LOUD claims ...
 
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A_Thinker

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Should Christians be granted special favors because they organized some charity programs? The radical right of Christianity has become the voice of Christianity simply because there is no other voice.

You are simply mistaken.

The Religious Right may be the LOUDEST "christian" voice ... simply because they are the most accomodating to the world system (i.e. media, politics, etc.). But other christian voices are there, as well, for those who have ears to hear ... and are not just listening to the world.
 
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A_Thinker

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I remember reading on Twitter two or three years ago one of the people involved in the Black Lives Matter movement asking a simple question: "Where are the churches?"

Apparently, the churches don't believe that Black lives do matter because they were AWOL. They were back home resting on the laurels of the people who came before them.

The churches have been involved before, during, and after the ministry of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. The churches and BLM (which is new to the scene) are fundamentally DIFFERENT organizations. BLM is a PROTEST organization. Jesus' church is a MINISTERING organization.

Now I believe that there is a time and place for protest, ... but you don't find Jesus conducting, or participating in, ... any particular protests against the political systems of His time. You do, however, find Him ministering to people in their various afflictions (i.e. hunger, disease, disability, etc.).
 
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zephcom

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Just for the sake of discussion, why do you trust what those "mere humans" recorded as Jesus' spoken words yet reject the validity of their other canonized writings, especially when those writings are not in conflict? I trust you know that Jesus didn't directly put pen to scroll to record his autobiography.

I don't trust that the mere humans accurately recorded Jesus' words. In fact, it is painfully obvious they didn't since the Gospels have different last words of Jesus. But they are the only first Century writings of His words available to us.

Often I will qualify Jesus' teachings by saying "as recorded in the Bible" simply because there is no known method of verifying those words. And clearly our English translations fall far short of accurately portraying the ancient texts.

But through it all, one can see the profound nature of His teaching and how different it is from the commentary which surrounds it. At least for me, Jesus could have been mere human Himself without any credentials at all and His teaching on how to live a successful and spiritual life in this realm would still resonate as a special insight.
 
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zephcom

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The churches have been involved before, during, and after the ministry of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. The churches and BLM (which is new to the scene) are fundamentally DIFFERENT organizations. BLM is a PROTEST organization. Jesus' church is a MINISTERING organization.

Now I believe that there is a time and place for protest, ... but you don't find Jesus conducting, or participating in, ... any particular protests against the political systems of His time. You do, however, find Him ministering to people in their various afflictions (i.e. hunger, disease, disability, etc.).

So oppressed people in America are on their own because Jesus didn't protest the political systems of His time? Wikipedia defines sedition this way, "Sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that tends toward insurrection against the established order." And it was sedition charges which resulted in Him being killed.
 
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