Is sexual promiscuity solely the arena of more liberal Christianity?

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Luke seems to have dodged a bullet, though if Hannah had been sexually continent and agreed with him that would have been a wonderful testimony to Christian sexual morality on a popular TV show. Hannah chose the world over living the Gospel and celebrates it's standards rather than Christ's. It would be one thing for her to have fallen and admit her sin, it's quite another to celebrate it.

With regards to sexual promiscuity, conservatives are guilty of sexual sin as much as anyone else. The difference lies in that they don't want to justify their behavior, unlike liberals who seem to tolerate a vast amount of sexual sin that runs contrary to scripture and the Christian witness for these last two thousand years. I mean, how are we to interpret the example of the Virgin Mary through a liberal lens which sees sex before marriage as legitimate and morally acceptable? Why did God choose her instead of anyone else? Maybe if God had chosen a Prostitute they would have a point.

 

[bèlla]

Teens and young adults are more independent and have greater freedom. They’re going off to school and aren’t under their parent’s eye. You’d need to make significant shifts in exposure and lifestyle to counter the temptations they face.

 

[escapee]

Premarital sex should not be an issue, but evil spirits can use it too easily to damage the mind of a person even after you have long forgotten about each other. It is an open door to the devil for both of you, if either one of you gets attacked any time in the future. Extra marital sex is a regular typical frustration in deliverance ministries.

 

[dqhall]

Teens and young adults are more independent and have greater freedom. They’re going off to school and aren’t under their parent’s eye. You’d need to make significant shifts in exposure and lifestyle to counter the temptations they face.

Jesus taught not only is adultery wrong; lust is wrong. Lust is thinking about doing sexual immorality. In those days they did not have reliable birth control. The consequences of sex without marriage was illegitimate children and unsupported single mothers same as is happening in modern society. They may have forced the father to marry the mother of his child; the equivalent of a shotgun wedding. Marriage is supposed to be a life long commitment. It is not as likely to happen when people are constantly changing sexual partners. Some people think they are Christians because their parents had a Christmas tree. It is easier to declare oneself Christian than to have in depth knowledge of the Gospels. This fornication not only resulted in fathers abandoning children they produced, but was the cause of HIV, Hep C and other STD’s that cost 10’s of thousands of dollars to treat. While many matured as they aged, not everyone repents. The owner of the New England Patriots is 78. He was recently caught with a prostitute. President Trump also has a history of infidelity. They called him conservative.

 

[A_Thinker]

Moralistic Therapeutic Bachelorette

Discuss.

Before posting understand that Rod Dreher is an Eastern Orthodox believer and I don’t know if he actually wrote the headline. Please read the entire article because there is nuance in the body of the article not present in the headline. And remember, this is Christian forums not Twitter.

Sexual promiscuity is the arena of the world. Christians who stray into the arena are like Samson ... they risk their lives ... and destroy their witness. Not that God cannot restore, ... but almost always, at great cost.

Satan has scored quite a coup by focusing Evengelicals upon homosexuality, which threatens a select few of our christian young people, ... all the while turning a blind eye to heterosexual promiscuity, which threatens practically ALL of our youth.

The Bachelor/Bachelorette series are a reflection of our society's moral viewpoint on premarital sex. It is assumed that premarital sex is part and parcel of the process of finding a mate.

Christians who value their witness should seek to avoid that trap ...

 

[hedrick]

Teens and young adults are more independent and have greater freedom. They’re going off to school and aren’t under their parent’s eye. You’d need to make significant shifts in exposure and lifestyle to counter the temptations they face.

I try to cite evidence, but this is one I've lost the reference to. I read a study trying to compare attitudes in early America with today. It's hard, because we don't have survey data from them. But as far as they could tell, rates of premarital sex were similar. The difference is that in early America, you couldn't find a decent girlfriend without committing that if there was a child you'd marry her. Some of those might have been shot-gun marriages, but the impression was that it was actually an understood duty. (The following isn't the article I'm referring to, but it uses somewhat different evidence to point to the same conclusion: An analysis of out-of-wedlock births in the united states, except that they include abortion in the analysis.)

In their opinion, the big difference today is that this understanding is no longer present. If they're right, independence of young people isn't the major difference. They thought the change was due to birth control. While it's not a logical consequence, the cultural consequence seems to have been causing guys to conclude that the woman could prevent pregnancy, so they no longer had to take responsibility.

The analysis doesn't emphasize this, but one of the largest changes shown in their data is the "Ratio of adoptions to births to mothers not married within three years of birth." Women are choosing to keep children not born in wedlock and raise them alone. This is thought to be due to a decrease in stigma of being a single mother. It is surely good that people are supporting single mothers. They need it. But the data I'm aware of suggests that children do a lot better with two parents, so the implications of this number aren't good.

As I noted above, I'm making no specific ethical proposal. I don't know what a modern sexual ethic should look like. I think it would be different from the 1st Cent, because our lives and the options available are different, but I also don't think it should be "anything goes," because that's damaging people. What I know is that we're not going to restore 1st Cent circumstances, and that if we pretend that Christians will behave the same way, we're effectively giving no ethical guidance at all.

 

[bèlla]

The difference is that in early America, you couldn't find a decent girlfriend without committing that if there was a child you'd marry her. Some of those might have been shot-gun marriages, but the impression was that it was actually an understood duty.

I’m familiar with this and I don’t think it would be possible to do the same today. They’d probably have legal assistance dissolving the union due to parental force in each.

I would never force my daughter to marry. It’s a line I won’t cross and she’s an adult anyway. If she was younger and found herself with child my position would remain unchanged. Although we’ve addressed the subject and others and she’s aware of my stance. If she wanted to raise the child she would have the resources necessary to do so.

But pregnancy and covenant is another matter. I would not support a vow she was unwilling or unable to adhere to. That’s another layer of sin and I won’t put that on her shoulders. Others may disagree.

 

[aiki]

Moralistic Therapeutic Bachelorette

Discuss.

Before posting understand that Rod Dreher is an Eastern Orthodox believer and I don’t know if he actually wrote the headline. Please read the entire article because there is nuance in the body of the article not present in the headline. And remember, this is Christian forums not Twitter.

Sign of the times. For some, Jesus is merely a reflection of their own preferences and desires; he is whatever they want him to be, not the holy, righteous divine Judge to whom all will one day give account, who will divide eternally the sheep from the goats, and will reward each according to their deeds.

Hannah Brown is the product of the evangelical Protestant Church in the West that has become profoundly juvenile in its understanding of the Bible and increasingly sensual and carnal in its spiritual practices. Sadly, she is not unique. I attended a non-denominational church a few years ago that opened the service with a buxom peroxide blonde in a skin-tight, bright-red tube dress singing a Sass Jordan tune. You can bet no one was thinking about God while she swayed and bounced through her song, six-inch stillettos threatening to twist one of her well-turned ankles. I was appalled and never returned to the church. Things have not improved in many corners of Protestant Christendom.

I recall a poster here on CF starting a thread in which s/he contended that the Bible did not actually forbid pre-marital sex between couples intending to marry, only sexual promiscuity. Mind-boggling. But more and more common, I think.

do you think that it maybe more of a problem in more conservative Christian or orthodox Christian circles than we might want to believe? If not why or why not?

Yes. Western cultures are secularizing, abandoning Judeo-Christian morality and ethics with greater and greater fervor and speed, while at the same time the evangelical Protestant Church has been sliding for many decades now into spiritual and doctrinal imbecility. And so we have someone like Hannah Brown, the product of the dual influences of a God-hating World and a Self-loving Church, claiming to be a Christian but writing her own version of Christiantiy to serve her particular interests and preferences.

I don't know if Hannah is representative of a problem within conservative Christianity that is not being admitted. Hannah's thinking and behaviour is not characteristic of the conservative Christian communities in which I move. Her open promiscuity would be confronted if she were a member of my church and her unrepentant attitude would likely get her ejected from the church. None of the twenty-somethings in my church are behaving in a sexually-promiscuous way (as far as I know) or arguing for more sexual license.

So let me ask the question; what is the solution in behavior? I submit that one solution is to marry early so one does not burn with passion. What say ye? The reason I state the former is because I believe that young people were not made to live so long chaste in the single state.

This is not really the answer the Bible offers. The apostle Paul didn't put forward the "better to marry than to burn" thing as a cure-all for sexual promiscuity. Such promiscuity is symptomatic of deeper spiritual issues that aren't resolved merely by marrying.

All sin is symptomatic of a life not surrendered to God and divided in its love for Him. It is in these respects that change must occur if a person's sexual sin is to be halted. It would help, though, if the Church (at least, the evangelical Protestant Church in the West) returned to preaching holiness, pointing at the sins the Bible condemns and calling them what they are. Too many churches, though, have adopted the seeker-sensitive model, and such preaching would rapidly empty their pews.

 

[hedrick]

One random comment: the effects of attempts to change situations can be hard to predict. One recent fad is making high school kids take care of simulated babies. It seems to have backfired in a serious way: https://www.theverge.com/2016/8/26/12658162/robot-babies-teen-pregnancy-abortion-study. The article says it's used in 67% of US school districts, so if they're right it could have very serious effects for a whole generation.

That article says that only girls are asked to take care of the simulated infants. I think there are schools that share it with guys. However that has a potential to backfire as well: guys might well conclude that they want nothing to do with trying to care for an infant (even though in reality when it's your son or daughter, they might feel differently). Indeed that's what the thing is supposed to teach. But the hope is that it will reduce teenage pregnancy. It might instead increase the guys' tendency to take no responsibility for the birth.

 

[hedrick]

I’m familiar with this and I don’t think it would be possible to do the same today. They’d probably have legal assistance dissolving the union due to parental force in each.

I would never force my daughter to marry. It’s a line I won’t cross and she’s an adult anyway. If she was younger and found herself with child my position would remain unchanged. Although we’ve addressed the subject and others and she’s aware of my stance. If she wanted to raise the child she would have the resources necessary to do so.

But pregnancy and covenant is another matter. I would not support a vow she was unwilling or unable to adhere to. That’s another layer of sin and I won’t put that on her shoulders. Others may disagree.

Just out of curiosity, what does your church say about sexual ethics? The reason I ask is because I suspect what you've told your daughter is similar to what other parents say, liberal or conservative. But it's not entirely consistent with traditional Christian sexual ethics.

If nothing changes, de facto Christian sexual ethics are becoming

• I really wish you'd delay sex as long as possible, but if you do, be safe. I'll support you no matter what.
• a kind of serial monogamy. That is, you're expected to be faithful to your boyfriend or girlfriend, as well as your husband or wife. They may be the same or opposite gender.

Remember. please, that I'm not advocating anything. I'm observing what I think is actually going on.

 

[MournfulWatcher]

As for the question of how we resolve the issue of promiscuity in our current culture, for Christians at least, I would say we should encourage younger marriages. No, I'm not talking teen marriage, more like being married by 18-22 or so. I actually know quite a lot of other devout Christians who have gotten married at this age, despite both the husband and the wife still being in college. I even know one couple who are having baby this August and the wife is 21 and going into her senior year of college.

 

[mama2one]

our child is a preteen and ever since taught her what sex is (with the aid of a book), have also been talking about how sex is for marriage only

as she gets older, will talk more details & adjust to age
I think many parents don't discuss this topic and then kids are left on their own

parents do need to talk with their kids and often, keep communication open, and know what's going on

 

[bèlla]

Just out of curiosity, what does your church say about sexual ethics? The reason I ask is because I suspect what you've told your daughter is similar to what other parents say, liberal or conservative. But it's not entirely consistent with traditional Christian sexual ethics.

The position of the churches I’ve attended is abstinence until married. None supported premarital sex for youths or adults.

While I’ve advocated the same for my daughter, reality is often different. The ideal doesn’t come to pass. Compounding sin with possible sins is not an effective way to address the problem.

I really wish you'd delay sex as long as possible, but if you do, be safe. I'll support you no matter what.

I will come alongside her and offer support on account of love and parental duty. It’s no different than doing the same for believers in their struggles.

Sin begets consequences for all of us. Nevertheless, we must deal with the ramifications of our choices and keep going.

 

[bèlla]

No, I'm not talking teen marriage, more like being married by 18-22 or so.

That may be a viable solution for some but we ought to seek the Lord’s wisdom first. Marriage and family may be part of His plan. But it may not be the thing He desires them to focus on at present.

God uses many during their season of singleness to pursue works that are more challenging for married persons with children. The Body has many parts. We can’t pigeonhole people into marriages to avert pre-marital sex.

 

[hedrick]

As for the question of how we resolve the issue of promiscuity in our current culture, for Christians at least, I would say we should encourage younger marriages. No, I'm not talking teen marriage, more like being married by 18-22 or so. I actually know quite a lot of other devout Christians who have gotten married at this age, despite both the husband and the wife still being in college. I even know one couple who are having baby this August and the wife is 21 and going into her senior year of college.

I'd have no problem with that. It would be interesting to know what effect that would have on college. Being married is a big responsibility, and could make studying more difficult. However as a former college teacher I can tell you that older students take a different approach to studies. Someone who is married, possibly with kids, might well be a better student in some ways.

 

[PaulCyp1]

There is no such thing as "liberal Christianity". Christianity is what it is, what Jesus Christ designed it to be and commanded it to be, and it isn't liberal. You can't have it both ways.

 

[redleghunter]

As for the question of how we resolve the issue of promiscuity in our current culture, for Christians at least, I would say we should encourage younger marriages. No, I'm not talking teen marriage, more like being married by 18-22 or so. I actually know quite a lot of other devout Christians who have gotten married at this age, despite both the husband and the wife still being in college. I even know one couple who are having baby this August and the wife is 21 and going into her senior year of college.

A lot of society frowns on earlier marriage in modern times. But you are right there are many who do and have not divorced later. My wife and I were married when we were 22. Would have been sooner but for military obligations.

However, even back then almost 30 years ago, when I asked my wife’s father for her hand in marriage he asked how I would support her and the children we would have. So I laid out my education which he knew about and the fact that when we were married I would be a commissioned officer in the Army when we were to be wed.

 

[redleghunter]

I think the author of the article in the OP makes the best point here:

There has never been a time when Christians lived perfectly by the sexual teachings of the faith. What’s happening now is that Christians are flat-out denying those teachings. The relationship between sex and the body is not incidental to Christianity; it is close to the center. It is only in the past 60 years or so — since the arrival of the Sexual Revolution — that this has been disputed within Christian churches.

Since then, generations of Christians have been catechized not by their churches, but by the culture.​

 

[SayaOtonashi]

We have seem many people who claim to be traditional Christian actually are the ones who have been caught in promiscuity acts

 

[ViaCrucis]

I suppose I don't believe in liberal Christianity if it states that premarital sex is OK. It's like some denominations that call themselves Christian but don't follow the bible.

I doubt you'll find any mainstream church, regardless of being called "liberal" or "conservative", that condones sex outside of marriage.

-CryptoLutheran