Is scripture the highest authority?

[Thursday]

Matthew 16:
[When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.]

Does it change the meaning? :/

No. I don't know what point you are trying to make.

 

[Thursday]

Does your bible contain Ephesians? In chapter 2 -- in context, not single verses lifted out of context -- it says:"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions — it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

The book of James is often misinterpreted. James says that after you have been saved you are expected to do good works. This agrees with Ephesians 2:10, quoted above. If you don't actively love your neighbor then your faith is worthless.

In Matthew's gospel Jesus was speaking to the Jews of Jesus time, not to Christians -- there were none. In Matthew 7:15-23 Jesus is speaking about false prophets. He is saying to be careful of people who teach what is contrary to God's will, then come to Jesus expecting to be justified by their actions. It has nothing to do with salvation by grace. Jesus said "Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" Do you really think this has anything to do with Christians that have been saved by God's grace? Really?

The single verse that you quote from John, like the others, is out of context. Jesus is explaining to his (pre-Christian) disciples that he and they are one. "You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. " Like the teaching about false prophets, this actually proves that nobody is justified by their own works. He continues, "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples." That has nothing to do with justification by works -- zero!

It is a common error to take single verses out of context without considering to whom they were written/spoken, when they were written spoken (before the cross or after), and why. There is no doctrine of justification by works in scripture. It goes against the most fundamental teaching of the New Covenant.

I believe all of these bible passages.

None says that we are saved by faith alone. You, on the other hand, must reject the passages I posted.

You need to keep reading in Ephesians 5:

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Thursday, Let's take one of the traditions of the Church which is to burn incense and just to tell everyone that I hate picking fights I went through https://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/INCENSE.HTM to understand. So the smoke is a symbol of the LORD's ambiance. Fair enough. The only thing that makes me feel little bit on edge with the practice is that incense was strictly to be used by priests because it was meant to burn in the temple of Jerusalem. In fact, it was an anathema to use for pleasure purposes. I would like to assume you take it with the strictest order when doing it. However, the temple was destroyed and God hasn't sent instructions on the construction of the temples since the destruction. So the question is, is it of any service to use something the LORD stopped using a long time ago? As you say, it's a sacred tradition but I'm not sure if it should influence the presence of God in the parish or not because, He's interest changed from physical demands to spiritual demands and the heart of man. If I believe the smoke should make me feel closer to God it should be crucial to understand that God would always be there whether there's incense or not and not that, he's more present when there's smoke than when there isn't!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

2 Kings 18:4
KJ21
He removed the high places, and broke the images, and cut down the Asherah poles, and broke in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for until those days the children of Israel burned incense to it; and he called it Nehushtan.
ASV
He removed the high places, and brake the pillars, and cut down the Asherah: and he brake in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and he called it Nehushtan.
AMP
He removed the high places [of pagan worship], broke down the images (memorial stones) and cut down the Asherim. He also crushed to pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the Israelites had burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan [a bronze sculpture].

Matthew Henry Commentary
18:1-8 Hezekiah was a true son of David. Some others did that which was right, but not like David. Let us not suppose that when times and men are bad, they must needs grow worse and worse; that does not follow: after many bad kings, God raised one up like David himself. The brazen serpent had been carefully preserved, as a memorial of God's goodness to their fathers in the wilderness; but it was idle and wicked to burn incense to it. All helps to devotion, not warranted by the word of God, interrupt the exercise of faith; they always lead to superstition and other dangerous evils. Human nature perverts every thing of this kind. True faith needs not such aids; the word of God, daily thought upon and prayed over, is all the outward help we need.

 

[lesliedellow]

Peter Kreeft is an orthodox Catholic. He doesn't teach anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine. He is also a former Calvinist and a theologian who graduated from Calvin College.

So he is an orthodox Catholic, and he says, quite explicitly, that justification is by faith. Like I said, most Catholics seem not to know the doctrine of their own Church.

 

[pescador]

I don't know what you are referring to. Catholics believe the bible is the Word of God.

We also believe that Jesus established the Catholic Church to spread the gospel.

Exactly where does it say that? The Catholic church isn't mentioned anywhere in my Bible.

 

[pescador]

I believe all of these bible passages.

None says that we are saved by faith alone. You, on the other hand, must reject the passages I posted.

You need to keep reading in Ephesians 5:

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Exactly. Paul is saying that you can't be in "the world" and in Christ simultaneously. If you kept reading Ephesians you would read this...

"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. [He is obviously talking about a separate group of people].

For you were once darkness [imperfect tense], but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light."

This section of his letter clearly separates those in Christ from those who are not. One group are idolaters and are not in God's kingdom.. The others are in Christ and are in God's kingdom. You won't be disinherited by God by your actions. He is not a liar. Once you become his child that is your status for eternity.

 

[Peter Johnson]

No, there are no false teachings or contradictory doctrines in the Church.

Your statement in itself proves that there is false teaching in the Church.
To be sure, there are false teachings and divisions over truth in the church, for we read the evidence in the Lord's Scriptures. Here are a few examples..
1Co 11:18-19 NIV In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. (19) No doubt there have to be differences [hairesias] among you to show which of you have God's approval.

2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Tit_1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose [sound doctrine].

Tit 3:9-10 NIV But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. (10) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

Frankly, I wont have anything to do with the Catholic Church's ecclesiastical traditions of anti-Biblical teachings of RC perfectionism, or its proponents ... altogether the blind leading the blind.

 

[Jezmeyah]

The authority of the scriptures is testified by everyone who has heard the gospel of salvation so as to be saved. We can all say along with Jesus to the Father, "Your Word is Truth" (Jn.17:17). John 6:29 This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your statement in itself proves that there is false teaching in the Church.
For we read in the Lord's Scriptures,
1Co 11:18-19 NIV In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. (19) No doubt there have to be differences [hairesias] among you to show which of you have God's approval.

2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Tit_1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose [sound doctrine].

Tit 3:9-10 NIV But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. (10) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

Frankly, I wont have anything to do with the Catholic Church's ecclesiastical traditions and anti-Biblical teachings of RC perfectionism, or its proponents ... altogether the blind leading the blind.

Thanks be to YHWH for a faithful steward of HIS WORD and TRUTH in JESUS!

 

[topcare]

Christ is the Word of God

 

[Peter Johnson]

Sola Scripture does not work because it leads to multiple contradictory doctrines, divisions among followers of Jesus, confusion, and false teachings...

and... you have also said,

No, there are no false teachings or contradictory doctrines in the Church.

Now, Thursday, you cannot have it both ways!

In the first quote you say THERE ARE contradictory doctrines and false teachings among those who follow Jesus.
then, in the second quote of you say THERE ARE NO false teachings or contradictory doctrines in the Church. (I reasonably understand you mean the Catholic Church, here).

This is what I conclude, where any or all of what follow applies:
1. You don't know what you are talking about.
2. You are confused, and can't make up your mind.
3. You are so indoctrinated with RC ecclesiology you are blind to understanding the plain truth of what the Scriptures teach.
4. If you are right about no false teaching, etc, in your RC church, then your RC church does not follow Jesus, according to your first quote.

 

[Emmy]

Dear AnticipateHisComing. Is scripture the highest authority? Yes, and you have many agreeing to this.
In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds. The second is like it: Love your neighbour as yourself." In verse 40 we are told:
" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." We are told to Love God with all our beings, and love our neighbour as we love ourselves. (neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends)
The Bible tells us to " Ask and receive," Matthew 7; 7-10: we ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. God will see our loving efforts, and God will approve and Bless us. We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on loving and caring, be kind and always friendly.
God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters, the scripture tells us to prove our love to God. How??
By following God`s Commandments to love God and love our neighbour. A Christian`s great weapon is Love,
love helps us to overcome all bad behaviour. Love God and love our neighbour, that is what God wants from us.
I say this with love, AnticipateHisComing. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Thursday]

So he is an orthodox Catholic, and he says, quite explicitly, that justification is by faith. Like I said, most Catholics seem not to know the doctrine of their own Church.

Justification is by faith, but not by faith alone.

Salvation is by grace through faith and works.

Here's the catechism portion on Justification and Grace:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

 

[Thursday]

Exactly where does it say that? The Catholic church isn't mentioned anywhere in my Bible.

Jesus started one Church. He gave it his authority to forgive sins, make rules, and teach.

Which Church is led by the apostles and their successors?

Here's a quote from Ignatius in 107 AD. Ignatius was a disciple of John. He was eaten by lions in Rome for refusing to renounce Christ.

“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Nor is it permitted without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate the agape; but whatever he approve, this too is pleasing to God, so that whatever is done will be secure and valid.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop and Martyr; Letter to the Smyrneans § 8)

 

[civilwarbuff]

You know, one of the huge differences between Protestants and Catholics seem to be when Protestants support their POV we quote Biblical scripture; when Catholics support their POV they usually refer to something the RCC has said/written such as Catechism.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Jesus started one Church. He gave it his authority to forgive sins, make rules, and teach.

Which Church is led by the apostles and their successors?

Here's a quote from Ignatius in 107 AD. Ignatius was a disciple of John. He was eaten by lions in Rome for refusing to renounce Christ.

“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Nor is it permitted without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate the agape; but whatever he approve, this too is pleasing to God, so that whatever is done will be secure and valid.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop and Martyr; Letter to the Smyrneans § 8)

Yet both denominations of the Orthodox make the same claim so who is right? It seems a 3 way race as to who can come out on top.

 

[Thursday]

Exactly. Paul is saying that you can't be in "the world" and in Christ simultaneously. If you kept reading Ephesians you would read this...

"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. [He is obviously talking about a separate group of people].

For you were once darkness [imperfect tense], but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light."

This section of his letter clearly separates those in Christ from those who are not. One group are idolaters and are not in God's kingdom.. The others are in Christ and are in God's kingdom. You won't be disinherited by God by your actions. He is not a liar. Once you become his child that is your status for eternity.

You are adding to scripture.

Did you miss this:

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

 

[Thursday]

Yet both denominations of the Orthodox make the same claim so who is right? It seems a 3 way race as to who can come out on top.

Catholics and Orthodox agree that we were united as one Church for hundreds of years. Our debate has nothing to do with protestant claims which are easily debunked.

 

[Thursday]

Your statement in itself proves that there is false teaching in the Church.
To be sure, there are false teachings and divisions over truth in the church, for we read the evidence in the Lord's Scriptures. Here are a few examples..
1Co 11:18-19 NIV In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. (19) No doubt there have to be differences [hairesias] among you to show which of you have God's approval.

2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Tit_1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose [sound doctrine].

Tit 3:9-10 NIV But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. (10) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

Frankly, I wont have anything to do with the Catholic Church's ecclesiastical traditions of anti-Biblical teachings of RC perfectionism, or its proponents ... altogether the blind leading the blind.

The fact that certain individuals ignore or distort Church teaching has nothing to do with the validity of the teaching.

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead his church into ALL truth. Jesus keeps his promises.