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It's from Hebrews although it's also from Ephesians 6 where Paul tells the Christian to put on the full armour of God so that he can stand against the wiles of the devil, even the rulers of this dark world.. serious deceptive business.
Anyway, the word of God is an integral part of the Armour of God, it's a Spiritual Sword that cuts to the chase instantly and in a living and powerful way.
I think that we're proving with every post how on topic this actually is.
There's NO DOGMA or anything lacking in the Sword of the Spirit which IS the word of God which abides for ever.
Seems to me that the passages are about something far more expansive than the bible. That is not to minimise the importance of the bible. But the word of God is more than the bible. Both passages say as much and the commentary also observed the same.
By all means tell us then what else is the word of God besides the holy scriptures?
I know you couldn't be talking about the Catholic Church, every dogma we've defined has scriptural evidence. Not that you would recognize it if you saw it.
Well now, that's the 64 dollar question, isn't it? And then we have to ask what the Roman Catholic traditions are, the Eastern Orthodox traditions, the Oriental Orthodox traditions, the Old Catholic traditions, and then compare these legends that are supposed to be God's "other" word.
That sounds exhausting
And I don't think those seeds come with a guarantee
No, I'm certain that they don't. But as SpyderByte has indicated, the claim that "every dogma we've defined has scriptural evidence" is all that needs to be said by the traditionists.
Or to put it another way, it's all that CAN be said in the absence of any scriptural backing.
Josiah said:It is a foundational, dogmatic insistence in some Christian communities/denominations that while the Bible is inerrant and inspired by God, that it nonetheless is MISSING a whole bunch of really super important things that Jesus taught and that we must know and believe....
The spin goes like this....
God, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures:
The Holy Spirit inspired the Bible; it is His inscripturated words to the faithful. And He did so inerrantly. And thus, it is infallible. But.... the thing is....... well....... the Holy Spirit did a lousy job. Because He just forgot a whole mess of really, really, really important dogmas - essential, de fide dogmas - matters of highest importance possible and greatest certainty of fact possible, matters impacting the salvation of souls. Just.... forgot! Jesus taught these (we just have NOTHING that REMOTELY indicates that)..... and thus all 12-14 Apostles taught them (we just have NOTHING that REMOTELY indicates that)..... it's just that the Holy Spirit.... well...... forgot. He told us how many fish the disciples caught one day (153) but forgot a mess of super important, critical DOGMAS we gotta believe.
What to do?
Realizing the error, God could have done a re-write. But that would have been a lot of work. God just let it stand - and hoped for the best.
"Oral"
But...... while the Holy Spirit forgot, there was/were Christian(s) who remembered! And somehow (no one knows how)...... these super important DOGMAS Jesus and all the Apostles taught that the Holy Spirit forgot to include in Scripture.... well, they survived!
Eventually (maybe many, many centuries later), one denomination kinda learned about one or more of these!!!!! And eventually (maybe many, many centuries later) it itself decided to tell Christians about this!
This is sometimes called "Apostolic Tradition" (although it can NEVER, EVER be related to ANY much less all of the Apostles). It is sometimes also called "Second Testimony"
This missing stuff tends to be whatever is UNIQUE DOGMA in that specific denomination. "Jesus taught this as de fide dogma - it's just part of the forgot stuff but this denomination learned it somehow - and here it is." Oddly, these "forgotten dogmas" are never the same....
Stools
Some communities that buy into all the above (and they do so passionately and foundationally) state that because the Bible is so.... well, see above about God forgetting..... therefore we need TWO (maybe 3 - we'll get to that) EQUAL and SUPPLIMENTAL sources for our dogma:
1. Scripture (which is good - as far as it goes)
2. Oral Stuff (which is the forgotten stuff, equally important but usually more clear).
These are like two streams that blend into one inseparable river - one source, one revelation, one truth. All the equal teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and the Early Church (it's just that..... sadly...... we have NOTHING - absolutely nothing at all that indicates that Jesus or any of the Aposltes or anyone in the First Century and often for long after that ever even heard of any of these "oral stuff" Dogmas).
Now, some add a third stool: themselves (or the leaders self chooses from among self that are pleadged to agree with self). It just reinforces the ME part.
.
Exactly which dogmas and which community or communities do you have in mind. The anonymity in the above quote may be a ruse, I am inclined to think it is.
By all means tell us then what else is the word of God besides the holy scriptures?
I'm not sure what kind of seed you're sellin here
This is all speculation. .
Let's save time, and leaving aside the Bible verses that do indeed say just what you said here isn't in it.... Will your observation be followed by outraged denials if someone dares to say that traditionists don't have a very high opinion of the Bible?It simply cannot be proven that Scripture is the word of God
Josiah said:It is a foundational, dogmatic insistence in some Christian communities/denominations that while the Bible is inerrant and inspired by God, that it nonetheless is MISSING a whole bunch of really super important things that Jesus taught and that we must know and believe....
The spin goes like this....
God, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures:
The Holy Spirit inspired the Bible; it is His inscripturated words to the faithful. And He did so inerrantly. And thus, it is infallible. But.... the thing is....... well....... the Holy Spirit did a lousy job. Because He just forgot a whole mess of really, really, really important dogmas - essential, de fide dogmas - matters of highest importance possible and greatest certainty of fact possible, matters impacting the salvation of souls. Just.... forgot! Jesus taught these (we just have NOTHING that REMOTELY indicates that)..... and thus all 12-14 Apostles taught them (we just have NOTHING that REMOTELY indicates that)..... it's just that the Holy Spirit.... well...... forgot. He told us how many fish the disciples caught one day (153) but forgot a mess of super important, critical DOGMAS we gotta believe.
What to do?
Realizing the error, God could have done a re-write. But that would have been a lot of work. God just let it stand - and hoped for the best.
"Oral"
But...... while the Holy Spirit forgot, there was/were Christian(s) who remembered! And somehow (no one knows how)...... these super important DOGMAS Jesus and all the Apostles taught that the Holy Spirit forgot to include in Scripture.... well, they survived!
Eventually (maybe many, many centuries later), one denomination kinda learned about one or more of these!!!!! And eventually (maybe many, many centuries later) it itself decided to tell Christians about this!
This is sometimes called "Apostolic Tradition" (although it can NEVER, EVER be related to ANY much less all of the Apostles). It is sometimes also called "Second Testimony"
This missing stuff tends to be whatever is UNIQUE DOGMA in that specific denomination. "Jesus taught this as de fide dogma - it's just part of the forgot stuff but this denomination learned it somehow - and here it is." Oddly, these "forgotten dogmas" are never the same....
Stools
Some communities that buy into all the above (and they do so passionately and foundationally) state that because the Bible is so.... well, see above about God forgetting..... therefore we need TWO (maybe 3 - we'll get to that) EQUAL and SUPPLIMENTAL sources for our dogma:
1. Scripture (which is good - as far as it goes)
2. Oral Stuff (which is the forgotten stuff, equally important but usually more clear).
These are like two streams that blend into one inseparable river - one source, one revelation, one truth. All the equal teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and the Early Church (it's just that..... sadly...... we have NOTHING - absolutely nothing at all that indicates that Jesus or any of the Aposltes or anyone in the First Century and often for long after that ever even heard of any of these "oral stuff" Dogmas).
Now, some add a third stool: themselves (or the leaders self chooses from among self that are pleadged to agree with self). It just reinforces the ME part.
This is all speculation.
Sacred Scripture instructs us to cling to unwritten traditions/teachings!
Understanding God's Word whether by word or by letter, looks like the bible is telling us that we must listen to both the Oral Traditional Jewish Teaching Method used by Jesus along with the Holy Scripture, Both are necessary, as per bible.
Here is the actual verse you allude to but don't quote or reference:
2 Thessalonians 2:15, "So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter."
This says NOTHING about Dogmas Jesus and all the Apostles taught that the Holy Spirit forgot to put into Scripture. Nor does it imply that what was taught in spoken or written form was different.
And note, it says "... by US" It says nothing about some later teacher (church, denomination, sect, cult, etc.).
Wow. Jesus used only scripture. Nothing's else!
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