Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas? (2)

ThatTrueLight · Apr 21, 2015

A perfect example is the body of Christ which is the church of God. The RCC of course believes that a man is turning bread into God and that they're passing God through their digestive system..

Sheer nonsense.

The priest lifts it up and declares it to be the body of Christ (which again, is the church) and then men eat it thinking that they're eating God.. and of course they're not, they're eating the church.. because everyone knows (but them of course) that the church is the body of Christ.

Paul even tells us that we are that bread consisting of many members.. but of course the claim from those who can't be wrong are so wrong that it's hilarious.

fhansen · Apr 21, 2015

ThatTrueLight said:
A perfect example is the body of Christ which is the church of God. The RCC of course believes that a man is turning bread into God and that they're passing God through their digestive system..

Sheer nonsense.

The priest lifts it up and declares it to be the body of Christ (which again, is the church) and then men eat it thinking that they're eating God.. and of course they're not, they're eating the church.. because everyone knows (but them of course) that the church is the body of Christ.

Paul even tells us that we are that bread consisting of many members.. but of course the claim from those who can't be wrong are so wrong that it's hilarious.

All bow to the words of TTL.

fhansen · Apr 21, 2015

Albion said:
I hope that's supposed to be a joke.

Nope. It pretty well summed up your sentiment.

ThatTrueLight · Apr 21, 2015

fhansen said:
You're certainly wrong about there being no need for a visible church having authority-and have in fact demonstrated the need for that very authority over and over again with your errors.

You're simply affirming that you have no idea what the church of God is.

Great we agree on that. Water baptism is necessary for salvation. Good!

We don't agree on that, baptizing a person in water does not save them, the precious shed blood of Christ does and God alone places each member of HIS BODY into its place.

Albion · Apr 21, 2015

fhansen said:
Nope. It pretty well summed up your sentiment.

I don't see how. I wasn't even referring to you, and if you think that those who denounce Apostolic Succession because they think that today's bishops are believed to be actual Apostles...well, let's just forget it. You missed the point, obviously.

ThatTrueLight · Apr 21, 2015

fhansen said:
All bow to the words of TTL.

Better to bow to the simple truth of scripture rather than to your pope and his ring.

Albion · Apr 21, 2015

ThatTrueLight said:
We don't agree on that, baptizing a person in water does not save them, the precious shed blood of Christ does and God alone places each member of HIS BODY into its place.

I didn't think that there was ANYONE on CF who imagined that Baptism was necessary for salvation.

fhansen · Apr 21, 2015

ThatTrueLight said:
You're simply affirming that you have no idea what the church of God is.

We don't agree on that, baptizing a person in water does not save them, the precious shed blood of Christ does and God alone places each member of HIS BODY into its place.

Is this evasiveness or what?-every Christian I know believes that grace is the cause of our salvation. So, is water baptism necessary for salvation or not? What is the right understanding of Scripture on this matter?

Albion · Apr 21, 2015

fhansen said:
Is this evasiveness or what?-every Christian I know believes that grace is the cause of our salvation. So, is water baptism necessary for salvation or not?

No--and your own church can set you straight on this matter.

ThatTrueLight · Apr 21, 2015

fhansen said:
Is this evasiveness or what?-every Christian I know believes that grace is the cause of our salvation. So, is water baptism necessary for salvation or not? What is the right understanding of Scripture on this matter?

Water baptism doesn't save anyone.. in case you're unaware, the precious shed blood of Christ alone saves us as He is the saviour of all men, specially those that believe.

And NO, Mary is not a co-redeemer with Christ.

Root of Jesse · Apr 21, 2015

ThatTrueLight said:
A perfect example is the body of Christ which is the church of God. The RCC of course believes that a man is turning bread into God and that they're passing God through their digestive system..

Sheer nonsense.

What's sheer nonsense is your understanding of Catholicism. The priest actually calls on the Holy Spirit to descend to the altar and become the Body and Blood of Christ. Quite different.

The priest lifts it up and declares it to be the body of Christ (which again, is the church) and then men eat it thinking that they're eating God.. and of course they're not, they're eating the church.. because everyone knows (but them of course) that the church is the body of Christ.

The priest shows us Christ in the Eucharist, and we trust God to mean what he says. Quite different!

Paul even tells us that we are that bread consisting of many members.. but of course the claim from those who can't be wrong are so wrong that it's hilarious.

Paul also says that anyone who eats the bread and drinks the wine without discerning the Body and Blood of Christ is eating it unworthily. If it was just bread and wine, how could anyone eat it unworthily?

Root of Jesse · Apr 21, 2015

ThatTrueLight said:
Water baptism doesn't save anyone.. in case you're unaware, the precious shed blood of Christ alone saves us as He is the saviour of all men, specially those that believe.

And NO, Mary is not a co-redeemer with Christ.

Well, nobody said she was...but now that you bring it up, let me ask you a question...
Let's say you're mowing your lawn, and your son wants to help, so he gets in front of you, and 'helps' you push the lawnmower. When he looks up at you and says "I helped Daddy mow the lawn today", I'd bet you'll just shake your head and say "No, you didn't. I didn't need any help."
Similarly, Mary participates in the redemption, and therefore, she really could be called co-redeemer. So those who say she is, I can understand. But it's not necessary belief or dogma.

fhansen · Apr 21, 2015

ThatTrueLight said:
Water baptism doesn't save anyone.. in case you're unaware, the precious shed blood of Christ alone saves us as He is the saviour of all men, specially those that believe.

Yes that's undisputed-as least for those who believe- and Jesus instructed that those who believe must profess that faith through the act of baptism. Ignorance of His commands, which we obey out of love for Him (John 14:15), is the only reason one could justifiably neglect them.

ThatTrueLight · Apr 21, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
What's sheer nonsense is your understanding of Catholicism. The priest actually calls on the Holy Spirit to descend to the altar and become the Body and Blood of Christ. Quite different.

You mean the guy there who is no different than you or me who pretends that he is enabled by God to turn bread into God..

It's plain ridiculous not to mention a complete attack on the person of Christ.. as if some guy in your assembly is turning a tiny piece of bread into God.

Then you're all pretending that you pass God through your digestive tract and out your bowels.. yeah, that's glorifying to God.. right?

The priest shows us Christ in the Eucharist, and we trust God to mean what he says. Quite different!

You mean when he calls it the body of Christ.. LOL, we all know what the body of Christ is, it's the church of God.

Paul also says that anyone who eats the bread and drinks the wine without discerning the Body and Blood of Christ is eating it unworthily. If it was just bread and wine, how could anyone eat it unworthily?

Paul warns them of despising what...

The church of God.. because that is what the body of Christ is.

See for yourself;

What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not?

ThatTrueLight · Apr 21, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Well, nobody said she was...but now that you bring it up, let me ask you a question...
Let's say you're mowing your lawn, and your son wants to help, so he gets in front of you, and 'helps' you push the lawnmower. When he looks up at you and says "I helped Daddy mow the lawn today", I'd bet you'll just shake your head and say "No, you didn't. I didn't need any help."
Similarly, Mary participates in the redemption, and therefore, she really could be called co-redeemer. So those who say she is, I can understand. But it's not necessary belief or dogma.

Only thing is that scripture makes it perfectly clear that God's Son ALONE purged our sins.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

I realize that scripture doesn't matter to many here although that doesn't change the truth one bit.

ThatTrueLight · Apr 21, 2015

fhansen said:
Yes that's undisputed-as least for those who believe- and Jesus instructed that those who believe must profess that faith through the act of baptism. Ignorance of His commands, which we obey out of love for Him (John 14:15), is the only reason one could justifiably neglect them.

So what is it?

The precious shed blood of Christ and what?

Let's add water baptism to His perfect finished work.

What else should we add to the precious shed blood of Christ for the salvation of men?

Albion · Apr 21, 2015

A small footnote....

(Water) baptism being (or not being) necessary for salvation

and

(Water) baptism doesn't save anyone

are not identical ideas.

fhansen · Apr 21, 2015

Albion said:
No--and your own church can set you straight on this matter.

My church teaches that to neglect water baptism would be to deny a command of Jesus. We'd be culpable for that only unless ignorant of the command. Lutherans teach something similar. Commentators on Calvin are inconsistent from my experience.

fhansen · Apr 21, 2015

Albion said:
A small footnote....

(Water) baptism being (or not being) necessary for salvation

and

(Water) baptism doesn't save anyone

are not identical ideas.

Good. Now we're getting somewhere perhaps. So, do you agree with TTL that water baptism is unnecessary for salvation? We've already cleared the air that Christ alone saves.

concretecamper · Apr 21, 2015

ThatTrueLight said:
Water baptism doesn't save anyone.. in case you're unaware, the precious shed blood of Christ alone saves us as He is the saviour of all men, specially those that believe.

And NO, Mary is not a co-redeemer with Christ.

If you share the gospel with someone, and that someone is saved, you are a co redeemer......get the picture?

ThatTrueLight said:
Better to bow to the simple truth of scripture rather than to your pope and his ring.

Come on, everyone is doing it!

https://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/pope.jpg

Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas? (2)

John 1:9

Oldbie

Oldbie

John 1:9

Facilitator

John 1:9

Facilitator

Oldbie

Facilitator

John 1:9

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord

Oldbie

John 1:9

John 1:9

John 1:9

Facilitator

Oldbie

Oldbie

I stand with Candice.

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency