Is science at odds with philosophy?

[Hans Blaster]

"Corroborated and validated observational data and tested hypotheses" - popular consensus

Not "popular consensus", independent data and confirmation.

It's based entirely on the views of sinners.
Not only are humans wrong, but they can choose to deceive at will.

That's why we want independent tests and data. Plus, I don't care what your moral assessments scientists are. Most I have known are decent, honest, and upstanding people.

 

[SkyWriting]

That's why we want independent tests and data. Plus, I don't care what your moral assessments scientists are. Most I have known are decent, honest, and upstanding people.

Selfish prideful sinners, just like everyone else.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not "popular consensus", independent data and confirmation.



That's why we want independent tests and data.

That consist only of people trying to ride the coattails of success by building up or tearing down the existing "truths" . You don't really think anyone does science research for free do you?

The salaries of Research Scientists in the US range from $34,000 to $630,000 , with a median salary of $73,195 . The middle 60% of Research Scientists makes between $60,195 and $73,141, with the top 80% making $630,000.
Research Scientist Salary | Comparably

 

[Tom 1]

It's occured to me that science has led humanity on a path more in line with the study of facts, and proven things and such, and has led mankind toward the discouragement of philosophical thought. It seems that science has basically replaced philosophy.

Is it true that philosophy is ultimately outdated, pre-scientific thinking? Is philosophy "archaic" type thinking.?

I know what you mean. Scientists like David Eagleman who have also studied philosophy do tend to be more circumspect about what is actually knowable, and what just seems like a good hypothesis. We all tend to speak from what we know, and from the perspective our education and experience have given us, so if all you have is testable hypotheses there's a basic human need to push those beyond their own natural limits. Training in philosophy can give someone additional mental space to consider the finite limits of their own understanding.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Selfish prideful sinners, just like everyone else.

I don't sin anymore.

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't sin anymore.

Man is born into sin just as is fish is born into water.
None are dry, no not one.
Men can accept forgiveness, but that is the only salvation.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That consist only of people trying to ride the coattails of success by building up or tearing down the existing "truths" . You don't really think anyone does science research for free do you?

So you're going to do the old "scientists are doing it for the money" bit now. How disappointing.

Of course we expect to get paid. It's a job and one that rarely makes one rich.

(And I do know of people who've done scientific research with out pay. Usually it is because their old job ended and they haven't found a new one, but they keep working on their projects hoping to get paid for new ones.)

When some one does get rich from science it is either because their discovery is patentable (and their employer doesn't take full ownership) or they wrote a best-selling book that sold millions of copies.

 

[Landon Caeli]

So you're going to do the old "scientists are doing it for the money" bit now. How disappointing.

Of course we expect to get paid. It's a job and one that rarely makes one rich.

(And I do know of people who've done scientific research with out pay. Usually it is because their old job ended and they haven't found a new one, but they keep working on their projects hoping to get paid for new ones.)

When some one does get rich from science it is either because their discovery is patentable (and their employer doesn't take full ownership) or they wrote a best-selling book that sold millions of copies.

True. I once went to a house to do a job here in OC, at what looked like an abandoned home. The back deck was rotted out, with weeds poking between the planks, the grass was 4 feet tall, and garbage bags were piled up by the side gate.

Then a really normal looking guy pulls up in a prius, and tells us he lives there. Turns out he's a physicist, and starts explaining electrical theories to us.

...My analysis of the situation that day, was that he was a genius, and his mind was so actively involved in thought, that he didn't have time for any kind of home upkeep. Didn't look like he cared much about money either.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It's based entirely on the views of sinners.
Not only are humans wrong, but they can choose to deceive at will.

Fraud in science: a plea for a new culture in research - Nature
Currently, there are numerous and partly publicly discussed cases of research misconduct and fraud. These cases span various sciences, but are particularly common in biomedical research.

The fact that people may deliberately ignore the philosophy doesn't make the philosophy 'wrong'.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

"Corroborated and validated observational data and tested hypotheses" - popular consensus

Meh. That's either sublime ignorance or childish provocation.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It seems to me that people who feel the need to traduce the workers in a whole field of legitimate activity to defend their beliefs speak volumes about themselves and their beliefs...

 

[SkyWriting]

It seems to me that people who feel the need to traduce the workers in a whole field of legitimate activity to defend their beliefs speak volumes about themselves and their beliefs...

This says nothing about the people in the field. They are prideful, arrogant sinners like all the rest of us.
My point being that the Idea of men approving of the works of other men and layering it with certifications and prestige and social circles is fraught with the same pitfalls that allow for pedophile priests to scurry in the back alleys for decades.

My dad was a roofer in Chicago that specialized in church steeples. He told me stories about those back alleys for decades before they made the newspapers.

 

[SkyWriting]

So you're going to do the old "scientists are doing it for the money" bit now. How disappointing.Of course we expect to get paid. It's a job and one that rarely makes one rich.(And I do know of people who've done scientific research with out pay. Usually it is because their old job ended and they haven't found a new one, but they keep working on their projects hoping to get paid for new ones.)When some one does get rich from science it is either because their discovery is patentable (and their employer doesn't take full ownership) or they wrote a best-selling book that sold millions of copies.

Scientists getting rich? Ridiculous.
But they are paid to produce income producing research. In addition to prestige and pride, their livelihood is on the line. And the income is not dependable in many cases.

Research fraud: a long-term problem exacerbated by the clamour for research grants

How Many Scientists Fabricate and Falsify Research? A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Survey Data

 

[SkyWriting]

The fact that people may deliberately ignore the philosophy doesn't make the philosophy 'wrong'.

Just pointing out that it is a philosophy and not something much more god-like.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Just pointing out that it is a philosophy and not something much more god-like.

If that's what you meant, you should have said so. But who was claiming science is 'much more god-like' than a philosophy?

 

[dlamberth]

Scientists getting rich? Ridiculous.
But they are paid to produce income producing research. In addition to prestige and pride, their livelihood is on the line. And the income is not dependable in many cases.

It looks to me like your wrongly painting all scientist into single group. The geologist that I know for example do research that is outside of the work they do in order to make a living. None of them make a living off of the the focus of their research interest. And trust me, none of them are getting rich.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Scientists getting rich? Ridiculous.
But they are paid to produce income producing research. In addition to prestige and pride, their livelihood is on the line. And the income is not dependable in many cases.

Research fraud: a long-term problem exacerbated by the clamour for research grants

How Many Scientists Fabricate and Falsify Research? A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Survey Data

Scientist are people. They have a variety of incentives to commit or avoid fraudulent activity. These include keeping their jobs. (Frauds that are caught are fired and blackballed. Those who fail to produce usually lose their jobs eventually depending on the nature of their employment contracts.)

This isn't about "Getting rich".

Many scientists I know live for the chance to catch their rivals being wrong (not frauds, just wrong). I can only image how hard they'd go after a true fraud.

 

[SkyWriting]

This isn't about "Getting rich".

It was your idea, which was not well considered.

Hans Blaster said: ↑
It's a job and one that rarely makes one rich.(And I do know of people who've done scientific research with out pay. Usually it is because their old job ended and they haven't found a new one, but they keep working on their projects hoping to get paid for new ones.)When some one does get rich from science it is either because their discovery is patentable (and their employer doesn't take full ownership) or they wrote a best-selling book that sold millions of copies.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That consist only of people trying to ride the coattails of success by building up or tearing down the existing "truths" . You don't really think anyone does science research for free do you?

What profession are you in that is so pure no one does it for money?

 

[timewerx]

It's occured to me that science has led humanity on a path more in line with the study of facts, and proven things and such, and has led mankind toward the discouragement of philosophical thought. It seems that science has basically replaced philosophy.

You mean "Regulated Science"?? The type of science that is controlled by money and politics.

"Unbridled Science" is never at odds with Philosophy as it has freedom to seek the deepest layers of the truth.