Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

A_Thinker · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
Today one has to be careful when choosing a church. God is not pleased if we simply assemble where much false or weak doctrine is being taught. Only the truth will make you free.

Have you read of the churches of the New Testament ... how the church at Corinth was carnal, how the church at Galatia was swayed by the Judaizers ... and of the various issues of the churches Christ wrote to in the book of Revelations ?

A_Thinker · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
I did not say they are perfect. Imperfect believers are expected to find and do God's perfect will. God is perfect, and has supplied the perfect means for sinners saved by grace to be empowered to be led into all truth. Denominations box minds in and do not allow for thinking outside of its box.

I believe that denominations generally provide the basics for belief. Spiritual growth beyond that is dependent upon, in most cases, self-study, prayer, and serving God to the best of your present ability.

Denominations sprang up, predominately, because of the corruption in the Catholic church. Once the precedent of breaking away from a corrupt church was established, it proliferated.

Even so, the essentials of the faith have been preserved ... faith in Christ and His sacrifice for sin, the canon of scripture, regular meetings of the church, ministry to support the poor and needy, etc.

Albion · Feb 16, 2018

Denominations are neither the work of Satan nor of God. They result from a very human tendency to second-guess, assess, question, and etc. And that has been a feature of Christianity since the first century A.D.

That is not wrong in itself. Someone may say it's divisive, but it also can be described as pursuing the most accurate perspective on our relationship with God. That would be desirable, therefore.

But the real issue is not that there are denominations or how many of them there are. It's more a matter of understanding that all serious believers in Christ are one in principle, that there is a spiritual unity of all Christians regardless of denomination. Also remember that most denominations are divided from other ones on issues that, while important to us, are not over essentials. A large percentage of the extant denominations, for example, exist mainly because of ethnic differences, not substantial theological ones.

Shempster · Feb 16, 2018

A_Thinker said:
Denominations differ on minor points, while agreeing on major points, ... and most consider themselves to be in unity with the others.

In the essentails, UNITY
In non-essentials, LIBERTY
In ALL things, CHARITY

I love that saying and I agree with it. I went to a church for 10 years at a place that used that as their motto.
The whole time I had to wonder, though, why they split off from the other denominations. There was one "sister" denomination they vaguely accepted but of course, the other ones were still wrong. Not much unity.

IMO, the real cause of denominations is a combination of two things:
1. The misinterpretation of the bible.
2. The teaching that we MUST believe the right things or be damned.

All denominations began in this way. They felt they discovered a particular truth in the bible and felt it necessary to part from other Christians who didn't believe in the new truth.
I know people who are terrified that they might be hob-nobbing with someone who believes in a damnable heresy and that they might get infected or something. All that stuff is fear based and that should be how we know that it all IS caused by Satan using deceit as his weapon. He also exploits the tribalistic nature of people who feel safe in groups they agree with.

One thing I am sure of....the bible is of no private interpretation. That means NO MAN has the correct interpretation. Only Jesus knows the true interpretation.
The Holy Spirit can show us the truth in scripture but its only in understanding. If we tried to put it in words it would come out all wrong, because once again, man cannot know the interpretation.
Now this is all my opinion, so don't hassle me if you disagree. It's all in good discussion. I certainly don't want to start a new denomination with it

AlexDTX · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

Neither, it is mankind. Denominations are business franchises. They exist for the purpose of those who own and run the franchises, not the Lord. Indirectly it is Satan for a house divided can not stand and it serves Satan's desire.

A_Thinker · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
If the Holy Spirit were filling all believers there would be no denominations.

Only if people were following the Holy Spirit PERFECTLY ...

Albion · Feb 16, 2018

Shempster said:
All denominations began in this way. They felt they discovered a particular truth in the bible and felt it necessary to part from other Christians who didn't believe in the new truth.

Yes, reform movements have accounted for a number of new denominations being formed. So if a particular church goes wrong, someone will attempt to restore the true teachings and practices. Is there something wrong with that?

A_Thinker · Feb 16, 2018

You know ... a better question might be ... what is the witness of the Church to the world. At times, it has been different ...

In the days of Jesus and the New Testament, ... the church was seen as an abberant offshoot of Judaism ... which offered a new and loving relationship with God. The church was heavily persecuted in this time.

In the Catholic era, the church became a co-ruler with the State ... and was seen as advancing war ... and wiping out dissent.

In the Reformation era came the first hints that the church could be questioned ... and when satisfactory answers were not forthcoming, ... broken off from. It should be noted that the reforms of this era were, mostly, to lift oppressive burdens from God's people ... and to offer a fuller understanding of God's grace and its blessings.

In its early days, the view of the church in America was that of a bulwark of community, leading its members to a steadfast and pure (i.e. without excessive pomp) worship and service to God.

Today, that view has been widely replaced (in most cases, unfairly) with that of a body of people intent upon their own success, wealth, and power over Americans (church members or not). It is sometimes almost futile to argue that despite this most visible manifestation of American christianity, that God's work is still being done ... feeding the poor, ministering to the sick, encouraging the downtrodden, and spreading God's pure message of LOVE ...

Shempster · Feb 16, 2018

Albion said:
Yes, reform movements have accounted for a number of new denominations being formed. So if a particular church goes wrong, someone will attempt to restore the true teachings and practices. Is there something wrong with that?

Of course not. We would assume the motive is love. But the big question always becomes "did the true denomination get off track or did a small group attempt a coup with new teachings?
Well to answer that correctly you must rely on interpretation of scripture, so you're back where you started. Each person believes they are correct. No solution but a split to avoid infighting.
Well, there is one other solution....just love them, ignore the belief differences and stay united with one another.

Albion · Feb 16, 2018

Shempster said:
Of course not. We would assume the motive is love. But the big question always becomes "did the true denomination get off track or did a small group attempt a coup with new teachings?

I agree that each denomination's origins deserve scrutiny in order that we know what motivated the founders, and also whether what they are preaching is right or wrong, BUT the existence of denominations itself is not wrong.

I think you agree to that, although many people give a knee-jerk response when this issue comes up, saying that any and all denominations or denominational churches etc. etc. are categorically wrong and harmful.

DominicBaptiste · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

I think a lot of Protestant denominations were founded because people didn't want to pay money to the Roman Catholic Church. Even in church disputes today in Baptist communities, the main issue may be whether or not to pay for something, like building a new gym. Anglicanism came from Henry VIII's divorce and split from the Pope; Methodism from the failure of Anglican Bishops to send enough priests to the colonies; and Baptist came about because they didn't want to pay or deal with the Anglican priests or bishops at all. They all believe in Jesus, but they all split because they didn't want to mess with the people who were supposedly in charge. I think the Baptists just finally decided that Jesus is in charge, and I think that was probably a fair decision. If you ever wonder which denomination to go to, just pray to Jesus, and if you never make it into a particular church tradition, it will probably be okay. I tend to pray from several traditions, Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, and Jew. My family history is the literal history of Southern Baptists in the Southern United States, but I've sung in choirs and taken piano lessons led by Episcopalians, and I was also previously an Oblate of a Catholic Benedictine monastery. They took me as a Methodist. By the way, I'm currently on a Rosary theme, which is reflected in my profile. The Rosary is attributed to St. Dominic, a Catholic Priest from Spain and founder of the Dominican Order, also known as the Order of Preachers. Here's a link to hear the Rosary prayed, if anyone is interested: Come, Pray the Rosary | An online Rosary for participation in worldwide or individual prayer

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
They did not have a thousand denominations back then....

Today one has to be careful when choosing a church. God is not pleased if we simply assemble where much false or weak doctrine is being taught. Only the truth will make you free.

maybe the question should be, what was the original and does it still exist...
Which is almost 2000 yrs old?

dqhall · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

People are divided by language differences. There may be over 6000 different languages. There are ethnic differences based on appearances. There are other things that divide us such as: walls, national borders, mountain ranges, rivers, oceans, etc.

There are disagreements as to the order of worship and what is to be taught during worship services.
I read about Northern Ireland during the turn of the 19th to the 20th century. One in 100 marriages was between a Catholic and Protestant. Many did not marry outside of their religions.

Too much desire for unity corrupts good practices. I am not supposed to conform to wicked practices for the sake of unity.

Matthew 10:34 (WEB) "Don't think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn't come to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man at odds against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 A man's foes will be those of his own household.

37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me isn't worthy of me. 38 He who doesn't take his cross and follow after me, isn't worthy of me. 39 He who seeks his life will lose it; and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

On the other hand, one may agree about any true and good thing.

Brian Mcnamee · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

Hi at this point we are seeing Satan working both sides as division over trivial items is not good but unification with errors in serious doctrine is happening with Rome and many evangelicals and also Muslims and humanist setting up a platform for the New World Religion based on tolerance and equality not the idea that Jesus is the way life and truth and no one can come to the father apart from Him.
I point to the letters of the 7 churches in Revelation as evidence that the church was not a fortress of unified ideas, doctrine and practices as you read them only 2 out 7 received passing grades and things like false doctrine, immoral practices and the like. To Thyatira Jesus has very harsh words unless they repent,20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow[fn] that woman[fn] Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce[fn] My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

In these letters we see Jesus is still concerned about moral practices and doctrine and is against religiousity too as he tells Ephesus who had all correct doctrine and practices that they needed to return to their first love Jesus.
These issues have been all along and now we are entering the last days just prior to the 7 year tribulation and a great falling away is happening and a unification under world peace and unity which is in line with UN NWO ideology.

nonaeroterraqueous · Feb 16, 2018

genez said:
Denominations demand a tribal (worldly) type conformity that will not allow for thinking outside of what that denomination dictates is only to be accepted.

I don't know what kind of denominations you've been attending, but I've attended several, and never once have I been inclined to think inside that box of which you speak. Every denomination has its way of seeing things, and they are no more to be blamed for having a perspective than you are.

genez said:
God is not pleased if we simply assemble where much false or weak doctrine is being taught.

You preach unity, and then you preach this. If we're always getting picky about choosing a church with a perfect doctrine, then we're only destined to become more divided. If a church is part of the body of Christ, regardless of whatever lesser doctrines they miss, then they are not to be shunned. Otherwise, I'd have to shun you.

People whine about the multitude of denominations, but I thank God for it. The last time we were unified, the church leaders were burning members at the stake. We can all be wrong together, or we can be diverse, giving some the chance to actually be right.

Albion · Feb 16, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
maybe the question should be, what was the original and does it still exist...
Which is almost 2000 yrs old?

One thing is certain. It doesn't still exist.

Not in the sense of being the same as in the first century.

A handful of denominations/communions claim an institutional connection or lineage back to the first churches, it is true, but the idea that any are identical to what the church was in the Apostolic era...simply isn't valid.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 16, 2018

Albion said:
One thing is certain. It doesn't still exist.

Not in the sense of being the same as in the first century.

A handful of denominations/communions claim an institutional connection or lineage back to the first churches, it is true, but the idea that any are identical to what the church was in the Apostolic era...simply isn't valid.

I disagree. It HAS to still exist, Yeshua said it would. They may not be IDENTICAL (things change over time), but they are direct lineages of these churches.

Albion · Feb 16, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
I disagree. It HAS to still exist, Yeshua said it would. They may not be IDENTICAL (things change over time), but they are direct lineages of these churches.

As I said, it is possible to claim a direct lineage. A variety of different churches make that claim, and with reason.

However, it should be understood that there is no denomination or communion today that believes and worships in the same way as the first churches. The post that you replied to spoke of false or weak doctrine and of the truth, so I thought that was your focus when you spoke of the "original" in reply.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 16, 2018

Albion said:
However, it should be understood that there is no denomination or communion today that believes and worships in the same way as the first churches.

Exactly, no, but as I have said, they are direct unbroken lineages of these churches.

A_Thinker · Feb 16, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
I disagree. It HAS to still exist, Yeshua said it would. They may not be IDENTICAL (things change over time), but they are direct lineages of these churches.

I believe that the Church Jesus speaks of is universal ... and continues to hold fast to His core teachings ... faith in Christ and His sacrifice for sin, the canon of scripture, regular meetings of the church, God's call to holy living, ministry to support the poor and needy, etc. I don't know that a unified message can encompass much more than that.

Just take a look at the diversity of the New Testament churches Paul and Jesus testified to (Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Sardis, Laodecia, etc.) to see this ...

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

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