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Is Sanctification a PROCESS?

DeaconDean

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"Sin is sin" is Calvinist. Not Scripture.

Again, show me where there is a difference in sin.

And, if I take your word on it, even though I may lose part of my heavenly rewards, it would okay to even slip up and commit certain sins because one "sin" is not as bad as another or because it is not a "sin unto death".

And here again, unless you can tell me a name of any person who achieved that mark, you don't have a leg to stand on.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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No, justification is just the Lord letting us know we all have a right to be here. Sanctification is the process of the Lord leading us to repent of our sin.

Absolutely!

From a paper I wrote in seminary:

"The Meaning of “dikiaow”

Our Greek word has its root in the Greek word “dikh”. This word means “right”, “justice”; in the NT, judicial punishment, vengeance; 2 Thes. 1:9; Jude 7; sentence of punishment, judgment, Acts 25:15; personified, the goddess of justice or vengeance, Nemesis, Paena, Acts 28:4.


This word draws directly from the Hebrew word “tsadag” (tsaw-dak). Which is rendered in the OT as “justify”, “righteous”, “just”, “justice”, “cleansed”, “cleanse ourselves”, “righteousness”.

We say that justification is used in the “forensic” sense. The word “justify” is the language of the law, from the courts. It is a legal term. It is the sentence of a judge upon a person who has been brought before him for judgment. Let us illustrate; Colorado has the most liberal gun laws in the U.S. And they say that if a person feels threatened by an intruder in the process of breaking and entering into a person’s home, the homeowner has the right to use deadly force to secure his and/or his families safety.

A man is released from jail. That night he decides to break into a home and rob it. While breaking into the home, the homeowner is awakened and gets up. He goes to investigate he sees the intruder and startles him. The intruder turns to attack the homeowner. The homeowner produces a gun and shoots the intruder dead. If the homeowner is brought before a judge, he could not be charged with any crime because the requirements of the law had been fulfilled. Because the requirements of the law had been met, fulfilled, the homeowner was “justified” in using deadly force to secure his and his families safety. Therefore, the condemnation of the law could not be brought to bear against the homeowner. He was not guilty, the law could not condemn him.

And that is the language of the Bible. When on that great day when we believers come to stand before the judgment seat, the condemnation of God’s Law cannot condemn us, because all the requirements of the Law; i.e.; perfect obedience, has already been fulfilled by our substitute, Jesus Christ, He has fulfilled those requirements for us. “Therefore there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus”. We will stand justified in the sight of God.

Justification has to do with the “legal” side of salvation. And because it is a legal term, a judicial declaration, the scriptures make it perfectly clear who this is, and who its author is. The Apostle Paul says:

“It is God that justifieth.” –Rom. 8:33 (KJV)

This very same principle was laid down by God in the “Law”:

“If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.” –Deut. 25:1 (KJV)

Here we see from the “Law” how the word “justify” shows its “legal” origin, and how it is used in the forensic sense. God has laid down a rule to govern the judges in Israel: they must not justify or pass sentence in favor of the wicked."

A Study on the Baptist Position on Justification, By: Me

That is why we have Paul's great message in Romans 7: 14-25.

Has the Christ event happened so predominately, has the Christ event so eradicated sin in our lives that we can no longer sin?

No.

Do you believe sanctification is a life-long process to get sin out of your life? Do you have to work at it?

B.B. Warfield wrote:

"Entire Sanctification - 1 Thessalonians. 5:23-24

by B. B. Warfield

1 Thess. 5:23-24:—"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who will also do it."

And now, let us observe, thirdly, the period to which the Apostle assigns the accomplishment of this great hope. It is at once evident that he is not dealing with this perfection as a thing already in the possession of his readers. It is not a matter of congratulation to them—as some Christian graces were, for the presence of which in their hearts he thanks God,—but a matter of prayer to God for them. It is a thing not yet in possession but in petition. It is yet to come to them. He does not permit us to suppose, then, that the Thessalonians had already attained—or should already have attained—it. He thanks God, indeed, for their rescue from the state in which they were by nature. He thanks God for their great attainments in Christian living. But he does not suggest they had already reached the goal. On the contrary, a great part of the letter is taken up with exhortation to Christian duties not yet overtaken, graces of Christian living still to be cultivated. His readers are treated distinctly and emphatically as viatores, not yet as comprehensores. Not in and of them, but in and of God, is the perfection which he prays for. What we see is not hoped for, what we pray for is not already attained. Moreover the very pledge he gives of the attainment of this perfection bears in it an implication that it is yet a matter of hope, not of possession. He pledges the faithfulness of God, the Caller. Accordingly, the perfection longed for and promised is not given in the call itself; it is not the invariable possession of the Christian soul. He that is called looks yet for it; it is sought still; and at the hands of the Caller whose faithfulness assures the performance. The performance, therefore, still lags.

It is clear, therefore, that Paul, though promising this perfection as the certain heritage of every Christian man, presents it as a matter of hope, not yet seen; not as a matter of experience, already enjoyed. That it belongs to us as Christians we can be assured only by the faithfulness of God, the Performer as well as the Caller. Can we learn from Paul when we can hope for it? Assuredly, he has not left us in ignorance here. He openly declares, indeed, the term of our imperfection—the point of entrance into our perfection. "May the God of peace," he prays, "sanctify you wholly and may there be preserved blamelessly perfect your spirit and soul and body, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" You see it is on the second advent of Christ—and that is the end of the world, and the judgment day—that the Apostle has his eyes set. There is the point of time to which he refers the completeness of our perfecting."

Here again, I am asking for you to show me one single person, from the time of Jesus' death, until now, who has attained "entire sanctification".

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Again, show me where there is a difference in sin.

And, if I take your word on it, even though I may lose part of my heavenly rewards, it would okay to even slip up and commit certain sins because one "sin" is not as bad as another or because it is not a "sin unto death".

And here again, unless you can tell me a name of any person who achieved that mark, you don't have a leg to stand on.

God Bless

Till all are one.

What I am trying to emphasize with this post is that sanctification is not a process of getting rid of willful sin. That was completed all the way back at the moment we are justified and sanctified. That doesn't mean we are over getting rid of trespasses. That is part of the glorification process. Trespasses are cleansed automatically while we walk in the Spirit - walking in glory - walking in the light, as long as we forgive the trespasses others may do against us. 1 John 1:7 and the Lord's Prayer.

1 John 5:16-17 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Leviticus 5:15 " “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord

Numbers 15:22-36 New King James Version (NKJV)
Laws Concerning Unintentional Sin
22 ‘If you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments which the Lord has spoken to Moses— 23 all that the Lord has commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day the Lord gave commandment and onward throughout your generations— 24 then it will be, if it is unintentionally committed, a]">[a]without the knowledge of the congregation, that the whole congregation shall offer one young bull as a burnt offering, as a sweet aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one kid of the goats as a sin offering. 25 So the priest shall make atonement for the whole congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them, for it was unintentional; they shall bring their offering, an offering made by fire to the Lord, and their sin offering before the Lord, for their unintended sin. 26 It shall be forgiven the whole congregation of the children of Israel and the stranger who dwells among them, because all the people did it unintentionally.

27 ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering. 28 So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. 29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.

Law Concerning Presumptuous Sin (Willful Sin)
30 ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’ ”

Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
 
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Traveling teacher

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of course God can do things in an instant.....

but He has given man free will......

and because
1 corinthians 13......loves does not insist on its own way....

then God gives us up to our sinful ways.....

it has taken 6000 years....2000 since Jesus the son of God came.....
I dont think that is an instant.....

reading history...or recent news in America....
i dont believe men is doing very good right now...sad to say.....

Jesus talks about a great falling away and a great harvest after that....

we are in the great falling away...the harvest will come after mens rebellion ends....
dont expect quick results or you will be disapointed....
luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls. 20
 
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DeaconDean

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What I am trying to emphasize with this post is that sanctification is not a process of getting rid of willful sin. That was completed all the way back at the moment we are justified and sanctified. That doesn't mean we are over getting rid of trespasses. That is part of the glorification process.

In a sense, yes your right. But again, your wrong.

Righteousness and Justification is imparted to us at the moment of salvation. And, to a certain point, so is sanctified.

Sanctification means "to be set apart". As a Christian, we are set apart from others. However, "entire sanctification as defined by John Wesley is not the proper understanding.

According to John Wesley, we occasionally sin "because we are imperfect persons in an imperfect world, perfection 'in love' is consistent with a 'thousand mistakes.'

However, I also point out that this world will always be "imperfect". Not until a New Earth and New Heaven" are created will it be perfect. (cf. Rev. 21:1)

And in this life, entire sanctification" as it is known in Arminian theology is not possible. It is a mark we should strive for, but we will not achieve until Christ returns. (cf. 1 John 3:2)

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Arthur Pink comments saying:

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (verse 26). The general truth here set forth is that, Should those who have been converted and become Christians apostatize from Christ their state would be hopeless. This is presented under the following details. First, because of the nature of this sin, namely, a deliberate and final abandonment of the Christian faith. Second, the ones warned against the committal of it. Third, the terrible aggravation of it did such commit it. Fourth, the unpardonableness of it.

"For if we sin willfully." The causal particle whereby this verse is premised has at least a threefold force. First and more immediately, it points the plain and inevitable conclusion from what has just been said in verse 25: they who "forsake" and abandon the Christian assemblies with all that they stand for, commit a sin for which the sacrifice of Christ avails not. Should it be said that Scripture declares "the blood of Christ cleanseth from all sin," the reply is, that it only says "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin," and none of those spoken of throughout that verse (1 John 1:7) ever commit this sin! Moreover, that very

same epistle plainly teaches there is a sin for which the blood of Christ does not avail: see 1 John 5:16. Second, and more generally, a reason is here adduced as to why Christians need to heed the exhortations given in verses 22-25: the duties therein prescribed are the means which God has appointed for preserving His people against this unpardonable crime. Third and more remotely, a solemn warning is here given against a wrong use being made of the precious promise recorded in Hebrews 10:17—that blessed declaration is not designed to encourage a course of carelessness and recklessness.

"For if we sin willfully." "The word sin here is plainly used in a somewhat peculiar sense. It is descriptive not of sin generally, but of a particular kind of sin,—apostasy from the faith and profession of the truth, once known and professed. ‘The angels that sinned’ are the apostate angels. The apostasy described is not so much an act of apostasy as a state of apostasy. It is not, ‘If we have sinned, if we have apostatized’; but ‘If we sin, if we apostatize, if we continue in apostasy’" (John Brown). English translators prior to the A.V. read "If we sin willingly," the change being made in 1611, to avoid giving countenance to the supposition that there is no recovery after any voluntary sin. The Greek word will not permit of this change: the only other occurrence of it in 1 Peter 5:2, clearly gives its scope: "Taking the oversight not by constraint, but willingly."

"For if we sin willingly," that is voluntarily, of our own accord, where no constraint is used. The reference is to a definite decision, where an individual deliberately determines to abandon Christ and turn away from God. "In the Jewish law, as is indeed the case everywhere, a distinction is made between sins of oversight, inadvertence, or ignorance (Lev. 4:2, 13, 22; 5:15; Numbers 15:24, 27-29: compare Acts 3:17, 17:30), and sins of presumption, sins that are deliberately and intentionally committed: see Exodus 21:14, Numbers 15:30, Deuteronomy 17:12, Psalm 19:13. The apostle here has reference, evidently, to such a distinction, and means to speak of a decided and deliberate purpose to break away from the restraints and obligations of the Christian religion" (A. Barnes).

"For if we sin willingly," etc. Who are the ones that are here warned against this terrible sin? Who are they that are in danger of committing it? The answer is, allwho make a profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. But are genuine Christians in any such danger? Looked at from the standpoint of God’s everlasting covenant, which He made with them in the person of their Sponsor, which covenant is "ordered in all things and sure;"—no. Looked at according to their standing and state in Christ, as those who have been "perfected forever" (Heb. 10:14);—no. But considered as they are in themselves, mutable creatures (as was un-fallen Adam), without any strength of their own;—yes. Viewed as those who still have the sinful nature within them,—yes. Contemplated as those who are yet the objects of Satan’s relentless attacks,—yes. But it may be said, "God sees His people only in Christ." Not so, is the reply. Were that the case, He would never chasten (Heb. 12:5-10) us! God views the Christian both in Christ legally and in this world actually. He addresses us as responsible beings (2 Pet. 1:10) and regulates the manifestations of His love for us according to our conduct (John 14:23)."

An Exposition of Hebrews, Arthur W. Pink, Apostasy, Hebrews 10:25-27

Moreover, I object to you using the OT Law as your "proof-texts" as applied to Gentiles.

The OT laws never applied to Gentiles. We know for a fact, just how much of the "Torah" applied to Gentiles as given by the First Apostolic Council in Acts 15.

Not to mention, that inspite of it being, as Paul wrote: "law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (cf. Rom. 7:12) It had a fatal flaw!

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second." -Heb. 8:7 (KJV)

I can show that the Decalogue and the Torah were bound up together as one, in one verse in the OT.

"And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." -Deut. 4:13 (KJV)

In this one verse, the Decalogue and the Torah are bound together. And everything commanded by the "Torah", which you are so quick to quote, was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ. Our Surety.

I will not be bound to a set of "Laws" that I have been freed from.

Sanctification, is a process, it starts at the moment of salvation, and continues until we are made perfect, just like Christ Himself.

And, as shown, both Peter and Paul, from scriptures, willfully sinned. So if I take your word for it, according to the passage of scripture you quoted from (cf. Hebrews 10) then they lost their salvation.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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1stcenturylady

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In a sense, yes your right. But again, your wrong.

Righteousness and Justification is imparted to us at the moment of salvation. And, to a certain point, so is sanctified.

Sanctification means "to be set apart". As a Christian, we are set apart from others. However, "entire sanctification as defined by John Wesley is not the proper understanding.

According to John Wesley, we occasionally sin "because we are imperfect persons in an imperfect world, perfection 'in love' is consistent with a 'thousand mistakes.'

However, I also point out that this world will always be "imperfect". Not until a New Earth and New Heaven" are created will it be perfect. (cf. Rev. 21:1)

And in this life, entire sanctification" as it is known in Arminian theology is not possible. It is a mark we should strive for, but we will not achieve until Christ returns. (cf. 1 John 3:2)



Arthur Pink comments saying:

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (verse 26). The general truth here set forth is that, Should those who have been converted and become Christians apostatize from Christ their state would be hopeless. This is presented under the following details. First, because of the nature of this sin, namely, a deliberate and final abandonment of the Christian faith. Second, the ones warned against the committal of it. Third, the terrible aggravation of it did such commit it. Fourth, the unpardonableness of it.

"For if we sin willfully." The causal particle whereby this verse is premised has at least a threefold force. First and more immediately, it points the plain and inevitable conclusion from what has just been said in verse 25: they who "forsake" and abandon the Christian assemblies with all that they stand for, commit a sin for which the sacrifice of Christ avails not. Should it be said that Scripture declares "the blood of Christ cleanseth from all sin," the reply is, that it only says "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin," and none of those spoken of throughout that verse (1 John 1:7) ever commit this sin! Moreover, that very

same epistle plainly teaches there is a sin for which the blood of Christ does not avail: see 1 John 5:16. Second, and more generally, a reason is here adduced as to why Christians need to heed the exhortations given in verses 22-25: the duties therein prescribed are the means which God has appointed for preserving His people against this unpardonable crime. Third and more remotely, a solemn warning is here given against a wrong use being made of the precious promise recorded in Hebrews 10:17—that blessed declaration is not designed to encourage a course of carelessness and recklessness.

"For if we sin willfully." "The word sin here is plainly used in a somewhat peculiar sense. It is descriptive not of sin generally, but of a particular kind of sin,—apostasy from the faith and profession of the truth, once known and professed. ‘The angels that sinned’ are the apostate angels. The apostasy described is not so much an act of apostasy as a state of apostasy. It is not, ‘If we have sinned, if we have apostatized’; but ‘If we sin, if we apostatize, if we continue in apostasy’" (John Brown). English translators prior to the A.V. read "If we sin willingly," the change being made in 1611, to avoid giving countenance to the supposition that there is no recovery after any voluntary sin. The Greek word will not permit of this change: the only other occurrence of it in 1 Peter 5:2, clearly gives its scope: "Taking the oversight not by constraint, but willingly."

"For if we sin willingly," that is voluntarily, of our own accord, where no constraint is used. The reference is to a definite decision, where an individual deliberately determines to abandon Christ and turn away from God. "In the Jewish law, as is indeed the case everywhere, a distinction is made between sins of oversight, inadvertence, or ignorance (Lev. 4:2, 13, 22; 5:15; Numbers 15:24, 27-29: compare Acts 3:17, 17:30), and sins of presumption, sins that are deliberately and intentionally committed: see Exodus 21:14, Numbers 15:30, Deuteronomy 17:12, Psalm 19:13. The apostle here has reference, evidently, to such a distinction, and means to speak of a decided and deliberate purpose to break away from the restraints and obligations of the Christian religion" (A. Barnes).

"For if we sin willingly," etc. Who are the ones that are here warned against this terrible sin? Who are they that are in danger of committing it? The answer is, allwho make a profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. But are genuine Christians in any such danger? Looked at from the standpoint of God’s everlasting covenant, which He made with them in the person of their Sponsor, which covenant is "ordered in all things and sure;"—no. Looked at according to their standing and state in Christ, as those who have been "perfected forever" (Heb. 10:14);—no. But considered as they are in themselves, mutable creatures (as was un-fallen Adam), without any strength of their own;—yes. Viewed as those who still have the sinful nature within them,—yes. Contemplated as those who are yet the objects of Satan’s relentless attacks,—yes. But it may be said, "God sees His people only in Christ." Not so, is the reply. Were that the case, He would never chasten (Heb. 12:5-10) us! God views the Christian both in Christ legally and in this world actually. He addresses us as responsible beings (2 Pet. 1:10) and regulates the manifestations of His love for us according to our conduct (John 14:23)."

An Exposition of Hebrews, Arthur W. Pink, Apostasy, Hebrews 10:25-27

Moreover, I object to you using the OT Law as your "proof-texts" as applied to Gentiles.

The OT laws never applied to Gentiles. We know for a fact, just how much of the "Torah" applied to Gentiles as given by the First Apostolic Council in Acts 15.

Not to mention, that inspite of it being, as Paul wrote: "law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (cf. Rom. 7:12) It had a fatal flaw!

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second." -Heb. 8:7 (KJV)

I can show that the Decalogue and the Torah were bound up together as one, in one verse in the OT.

"And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." -Deut. 4:13 (KJV)

In this one verse, the Decalogue and the Torah are bound together. And everything commanded by the "Torah", which you are so quick to quote, was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ. Our Surety.

I will not be bound to a set of "Laws" that I have been freed from.

Sanctification, is a process, it starts at the moment of salvation, and continues until we are made perfect, just like Christ Himself.

And, as shown, both Peter and Paul, from scriptures, willfully sinned. So if I take your word for it, according to the passage of scripture you quoted from (cf. Hebrews 10) then they lost their salvation.

God Bless

Till all are one.

You're quoting people as your proof texts???
 
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DeaconDean

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You're quoting people as your proof texts???

All my research comes from studying. Studying commentary. Studying the Greek. Studying the Hebrew.

So if I quote such-and-such in a commentary on a verse of scripture, you can bank on it being correct.

I quote sources, and provide the link to them. But in all my comments with you, you 9 times out of 10, give your own comments.

I would rather rely on commentary that was 200 years old by a person with a Phd, then somebody giving their own opinion. And until you can prove 100% that my sources are wrong...

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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1stcenturylady

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All my research comes from studying. Studying commentary. Studying the Greek. Studying the Hebrew.

So if I quote such-and-such in a commentary on a verse of scripture, you can bank on it being correct.

I quote sources, and provide the link to them. But in all my comments with you, you 9 times out of 10, give your own comments.

I would rather rely on commentary that was 200 years old by a person with a Phd, then somebody giving their own opinion. And until you can prove 100% that my sources are wrong...

God Bless

Till all are one.

John Calvin didn't believe the gifts of the Spirit are for us today. Does that put him above the Word of God?
 
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DeaconDean

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John Calvin didn't believe the gifts of the Spirit are for us today. Does that put him above the Word of God?

And that pertains how?

There are a ton of "Christians" that believe the gifts of the Spirit ended long ago.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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1stcenturylady

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And that pertains how?

There are a ton of "Christians" that believe the gifts of the Spirit ended long ago.

God Bless

Till all are one.

The point it, you believe John Calvin OVER the Bible. Don't put your faith in PHDs.
 
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DeaconDean

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The point it, you believe John Calvin OVER the Bible. Don't put your faith in PHDs.

Ok, you have "officially" crossed the line here.

I am a Christian, I was saved by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

John Calvin was a theologian, not a savior.

And I point out to you that not single "theologian" except Christ, has/had a 100% correct theology.

John Calvin accepted and believed in "infant baptism". I do not.

So in the future, DO NOT REFER TO ME AS A FOLLOWER OF JOHN CALVIN OR BELIEVE HIM OVER SCRIPTURE!

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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dms1972

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John Calvin didn't believe the gifts of the Spirit are for us today. Does that put him above the Word of God?

I have never heard that. I am not a Calvinist but I have his Institutes, so will be interesting to see how he viewed it.

I think you have a point in regard to Sanctification as past tense, but that book I quoted from The Dynamics of Spiritual Life, said there is something in modern Christianity which could be called the 'sanctification gap'. You should check it out, he explains how it came about in Protestant teaching.

Nevertheless I still hold that sanctification is both positional, and progressive. Even the early Wesley said entire santification came with a 2nd blessing, not in initial conversion. So given his later views on it I think what he was describing is just a leap forward in sanctification.

I think what may happen is one stymies their progress in sanctification, or what the Lord wants to do in their life, or on the other hand one may pursue it in a moralistic manner, rather than by faith.

In other cases it may be that though professing some people are not really christians at all, they have a notional orthodoxy, but have not been born from above.

But this sort of discussion I find a bit crazy-making, so I will leave it at that.
 
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Danthemailman

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I certainly see being "sanctified" in which we are "set apart" or "made holy" in standing before God postionally in Christ -- 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus..

Yet I also see progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time, past event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time, past event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness as we continue to grow in grace and strive towards maturity.
 
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dms1972

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Ok, you have "officially" crossed the line here.

I am a Christian, I was saved by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

John Calvin was a theologian, not a savior.

And I point out to you that not single "theologian" except Christ, has/had a 100% correct theology.

John Calvin accepted and believed in "infant baptism". I do not.

So in the future, DO NOT REFER TO ME AS A FOLLOWER OF JOHN CALVIN OR BELIEVE HIM OVER SCRIPTURE!

God Bless

Till all are one.

Mind me asking why your infobox says 'Calvinist'?
 
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DeaconDean

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Mind me asking why your infobox says 'Calvinist'?

Because I believe that what came to be known as T.U.L.I.P. is 100% correct.

There is a lot of John Calvin's theology that I believe is correct. And by the same token, there is a part that I believe he was wrong about.

When I went to seminary I had a professor who saw to it, I was taught Reformed theology. Martin Luther, John Calvin, Theodore Beza, etc. I have even spent time researching what James Arminus taught.

I was raised an Independent Baptist. Just before I started seminary, I changed to Southern Baptist.

It is also worthy to be repeated:

"No one man in the history of the world, has/had a 100% correct theology except the Lord Jesus Christ."

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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The point it, you believe John Calvin OVER the Bible. Don't put your faith in PHDs.

One last challenge.

Either you produce one single post here for everybody to see, where I quoted anything by John Calvin.

Otherwise retract or apologize for accusing me of something I did not post.

Its one thing to hate me because I believe a certain theology over another. Its quite different to say I follow a man when nowhere in this thread have I said that.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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