Is Sanctification a PROCESS?

[dms1972]

I've run into these terms before. Like I say, repent and you will do well (Matt 4:17).

I am not going to debate further with you, I will take my counsel from God's Word the whole of it, and His Spirit.

 

[dreadnought]

I am not going to debate further with you, I will take my counsel from God's Word the whole of it, and His Spirit.

Okay, but you seem to be missing an important point: Sanctification IS repentance, led by the Lord.

 

[dms1972]

Good word. I think transformation is the same as glorification. But not in the sense we are still having to struggle with sin. That is over when the Spirit entered, and we WERE sanctified. Just being dead to sin doesn't make us completely like Christ - that was only one of His attributes. Now comes the process of being turned into his likeness.

What I'm most concerened about is the misnomer that we will always sin as we are sanctified. That sanctification is ongoing because we will always sin. That is anti-christ to the apostles teachings that we are dead to sin by Paul, and John saying a Christian cannot sin. But this teaching is one of the most prevalent in the post 1st century church.

A misnomer is something misnamed.

I think I have answered it as best I can, yes there definitely is a past tense a positional aspect to sanctification, it is not just a process. It has to do with Regeneration, which is like a beachhead for sanctification.

This from a book called Dynamics of Spiritual Life (Richard F. Lovelace):

"Regeneration is the re-creation of spiritual life in those who are dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1) It occurs in the depth of the human heart at the roots of consciousness, infusing new life which is capable of spiritual awareness, perception and response, and is no longer "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) The conscious effects of regeneration are summed up in conversion, the response of turning toward God in repentant faith which accompanies the hearing of the Gospel."


In regard to transformation and glorification, you seem to be confounding the two. Believers are said to reflect with unveiled faces the glory they behold in the face of Christ. But how could we be actually glorified in this life, and then die, and our glorified body decay!! Its not possible, because in this life we only reflect glory. But our natural body must die before it becomes a spiritual body (note a spiritual body, not a pure spirit) as a seed dies when planted in the ground, before it becomes a plant, and then in the Resurrection believers are glorified and given a body patterned after Jesus' glorified body.

That's as best as I can explain it at my current level of understanding.

 

[dms1972]

Okay, but you seem to be missing an important point: Sanctification IS repentance, led by the Lord.

By saying "Repent, and you will do well", you forget repentance has to be toward God. James "says you believe God is One, you do well, so does the Devil." So there is more than just believing in God.

You are missing half the Gospel which is Repentance toward God, not just cleaning up your act, but towards God, and faith in Jesus Christ that is the part about forgiveness of sins. Mortification and repentance, as well as justification and sanctification and faith are all connected but they are not all the same things.

Anyway I am too tired to keep explaining these things, I want to get on my own life with God and away from the computer, many of these discussions are a snare.

There is plenty of good teaching on books and tapes and in churches, why don't people just get some of it, get on with it and stop debating!!

That's me finished with this one

 

[1stcenturylady]

I will address your post backwards.

No, I do not accept Wesleyan theology.

Unless I'm mistaken, sin is sin. Period.

Your statement made no distinction of "sins unto death". Is looking "in lust" a more serious sin than "stealing"? No, sin is sin.

Fact: after the point of salvation, Peter sinned "willingly" at least twice. He disobeyed God, (cf. Acts 10), then "hypocrisy" in Galatians 2.

Fact: after the point of salvation, Paul sinned by disobeying the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 21) In fact, several times.

In Acts 23, he was guilty of reviling the High Priest.

"Moving on to perfection" as John Wesley put it, is a mark that absolutely nobody has reached or achieved.

If they have, I would ask you to point them out to me. Because if they have, it was a mark that at two of the Apostles who saw, walked, and talked with Jesus, could not achieve.

God Bless

Till all are one.

"Sin is sin" is Calvinist. Not Scripture.

 

[1stcenturylady]

A misnomer is something misnamed.

I think I have answered it as best I can, yes there definitely is a past tense a positional aspect to sanctification, it is not just a process. It has to do with Regeneration, which is like a beachhead for sanctification.

This from a book called Dynamics of Spiritual Life (Richard F. Lovelace):

"Regeneration is the re-creation of spiritual life in those who are dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1) It occurs in the depth of the human heart at the roots of consciousness, infusing new life which is capable of spiritual awareness, perception and response, and is no longer "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) The conscious effects of regeneration are summed up in conversion, the response of turning toward God in repentant faith which accompanies the hearing of the Gospel."


In regard to transformation and glorification, you seem to be confounding the two. Believers are said to reflect with unveiled faces the glory they behold in the face of Christ. But how could we be actually glorified in this life, and then die, and our glorified body decay!! Its not possible, because in this life we only reflect glory. But our natural body must die before it becomes a spiritual body (note a spiritual body, not a pure spirit) as a seed dies when planted in the ground, before it becomes a plant, and then in the Resurrection believers are glorified and given a body patterned after Jesus' glorified body.

That's as best as I can explain it at my current level of understanding.

Misnomer is correct in the way I'm using it. I'm talking about "the process." What some have described as sanctification, I believe should be named glorification.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I think "wherein you once walked..." is from Ephesians.

It was from your own post #52. It may be stated again in Ephesians as well as 1 Corinthians, but funny you should question your own reference...

Colossians 3:6-7 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

John Owen wrote a whole book explaining Mortification of Sin, it is now available in a new edition titled Overcoming Sin and Temptation.

I don't need a how-to book, as I'm not the one that needs to learn how out of a carnal nature. All we need is the power of the Holy Spirit which is a gift from Jesus after we repent from sin. He knows how and all I need to do is walk in the Spirit.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Okay, but you seem to be missing an important point: Sanctification IS repentance, led by the Lord.

Chiming in here again... I think you still have sanctification confused with justification. Justification is the first step, when you repent and are cleansed of ALL your sin. Growing up I always learned it as just-if-I-had-never-sinned. To be sanctified, you must first be clean. For temple use they didn't sanctify dirty objects. We are justified by faith, but it is based on our repentance out of that faith in Christ. Why I think you believe "Sanctification IS repentance," is because you believe repentance is a life-long process also. But that would mean you keep sinning in order to keep repenting. False. 1 John 3:9

This is why I made this OP. Sanctification is not a process of cleansing. We ARE cleansed of all sin when we first repented and were justified. 1 John 1:9. That false doctrine that it is a process of cleansing leads into all sorts of weak theology - weak in that it convinces and allows a person to remain weak in the mind rather than to walk in the strength of the Spirit already given them. They make an excuse that getting sin out of their lives is a life-long!!! process - never achievable until death. Which is also false. The whole purpose of this OP is to wake people up to the life-changing scriptures of reckoning ourselves dead to sin - a fact - past tense. So why sin again when the desire to sin has been broken? It's the old serpent saying, did God really say...

 

[dreadnought]

By saying "Repent, and you will do well", you forget repentance has to be toward God. James "says you believe God is One, you do well, so does the Devil." So there is more than just believing in God.

You are missing half the Gospel which is Repentance toward God, not just cleaning up your act, but towards God, and faith in Jesus Christ that is the part about forgiveness of sins. Mortification and repentance, as well as justification and sanctification and faith are all connected but they are not all the same things.

Anyway I am too tired to keep explaining these things, I want to get on my own life with God and away from the computer, many of these discussions are a snare.

There is plenty of good teaching on books and tapes and in churches, why don't people just get some of it, get on with it and stop debating!!

That's me finished with this one

I don't know that I've forgotten anything.

 

[dreadnought]

Chiming in here again... I think you still have sanctification confused with justification. Justification is the first step, when you repent and are cleansed of ALL your sin. Growing up I always learned it as just-if-I-had-never-sinned. To be sanctified, you must first be clean. For temple use they didn't sanctify dirty objects. We are justified by faith, but it is based on our repentance out of that faith in Christ. Why I think you believe "Sanctification IS repentance," is because you believe repentance is a life-long process also. But that would mean you keep sinning in order to keep repenting. False. 1 John 3:9

This is why I made this OP. Sanctification is not a process of cleansing. We ARE cleansed of all sin when we first repented and were justified. 1 John 1:9. That false doctrine that it is a process of cleansing leads into all sorts of weak theology - weak in that it convinces and allows a person to remain weak in the mind rather than to walk in the strength of the Spirit already given them. They make an excuse that getting sin out of their lives is a life-long!!! process - never achievable until death. Which is also false. The whole purpose of this OP is to wake people up to the life-changing scriptures of reckoning ourselves dead to sin - a fact - past tense. So why sin again when the desire to sin has been broken? It's the old serpent saying, did God really say...

No, justification is just the Lord letting us know we all have a right to be here. Sanctification is the process of the Lord leading us to repent of our sin.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, justification is just the Lord letting us know we all have a right to be here. Sanctification is the process of the Lord leading us to repent of our sin.

Do you believe sanctification is a life-long process to get sin out of your life? Do you have to work at it?

 

[dreadnought]

Do you believe sanctification is a life-long process to get sin out of your life? Do you have to work at it?

Your first question is hard to answer because I still struggle. I keep thinking I can get it done, but I keep struggling. As for the second question, yes I have to work at it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Your first question is hard to answer because I still struggle. I keep thinking I can get it done, but I keep struggling. As for the second question, yes I have to work at it.

Have you ever experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or do you just take on faith that you have been?

 

[dreadnought]

Have you ever experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or do you just take on faith that you have been?

As far as an "official" baptism, I was baptized as an infant. The Lord made his presence known to me when I was 20. I try to walk with him.

 

[1stcenturylady]

As far as an "official" baptism, I was baptized as an infant. The Lord made his presence known to me when I was 20. I try to walk with him.

Making His presence known is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but the drawing. This could be why you are still struggling. I'm going to PM you my testimony. I went to church for nearly 30 years before the power of the Holy Spirit fell on me. The 'struggle' ended overnight.

Watch your inbox.

 

[dreadnought]

Making His presence known is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but the drawing. This could be why you are still struggling. I'm going to PM you my testimony. I went to church for nearly 30 years before the power of the Holy Spirit fell on me. The 'struggle' ended overnight.

Watch your inbox.

I will watch, but I try to be in constant prayer.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I will watch, but I try to be in constant prayer.

Thanks for reading.

 

[1stcenturylady]

As far as an "official" baptism, I was baptized as an infant. The Lord made his presence known to me when I was 20. I try to walk with him.

BTW, I was baptized as an infant too, though I never knew about it until I was about 40 and my mother gave me my 'baby book'. Since then I was immersed twice, but still as a sinner. In other words, I was buried alive! But since the baptism of the Holy Spirit and becoming literally dead to sin, I finally buried the old man by immersion once again - for the last time, and officially the first. But baptism is a whole other post. It is what you do out of a good conscience. (I didn't have a good conscience until I was dead to sin.)

 

[Traveling teacher]

american culture says....instant coffee.....intant fast food....
instant cell phone service...
instant relationships?????
instant finances?????
instant salvation?????

be careful pulling God down to America!!!!!!

no where in scripture does it ever say salvation is easy or will be accepted by the masses or is it ever a 1 time event......

the key to salvation is LOVE.....
if you love God ..his Son you will obey.....you will bring forth fruits of repentence...
you will be sanctified....you will endure to the end....
you will then be saved......

John 21 ....Jesus showed this to Peter....
that he wasnt really truely saved cause he didnt love....
and he had to love and serve the brethren his entire life
and then he would be awarded his salvation.....

 

[1stcenturylady]

american culture says....instant coffee.....intant fast food....
instant cell phone service...
instant relationships?????
instant finances?????
instant salvation?????

be careful pulling God down to America!!!!!!

no where in scripture does it ever say salvation is easy or will be accepted by the masses or is it ever a 1 time event......

the key to salvation is LOVE.....
if you love God ..his Son you will obey.....you will bring forth fruits of repentence...
you will be sanctified....you will endure to the end....
you will then be saved......

John 21 ....Jesus showed this to Peter....
that he wasnt really truely saved cause he didnt love....
and he had to love and serve the brethren his entire life
and then he would be awarded his salvation.....

God created the whole world with new things each day - with just a word - in an instant. It is the demonic evolutionist that says, not an instant, but over billions of years. They have spiritual blinders securely placed over their hearts.

Just because justification and sanctification are back to back at the baptism of the Holy Spirit and is instant, doesn't mean we are done growing. It is just we are not weighted down with sin any longer. It is the perfecting of our faith that continues to grow, and grow, and grow if you don't quench the Spirit with the cares of this world, but keep our eyes fixed on Jesus. I believe, this process is called glorification. This realization that we are not still struggling with sin, gets our mind off sin where the devil would like us to dwell. We are free to grow into sons and daughters of the living God.