Is salvation conditional?

[believeume]

This is what I'd describe as a "transactional" view of salvation: Salvation involves a transaction--I accept X, Y, and Z and God responds by saving me.

That's a common idea, but it's far from how many--most--Christians understand salvation.

As others noted, there are several views you'll find among Christians; I'd argue that even where you find very different views among Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminians, Catholics, and Orthodox they all will more than likely identify salvation not as some sort of transaction, but rather about being in Christ. The locus of salvation is going to be placed in the person of Jesus, His death on the cross, and His resurrection from the dead--and thus the question is going to be chiefly how do we become the benefactors of His saving work?

As a Lutheran I believe that this involves the gracious work of God, apart from myself (even my own will), through the efficacious means of His Word and Sacraments to grant and create faith in me. Lutherans speak of faith as extra nos, that is, "from outside ourselves", meaning that faith is something God gives us, something God creates and puts in us.

From Luther's Large Catechism:

"For neither you nor I could ever know anything of Christ, or believe on Him, and obtain Him for our Lord, unless it were offered to us and granted to our hearts by the Holy Ghost through the preaching of the Gospel. The work is done and accomplished; for Christ has acquired and gained the treasure for us by His suffering, death, resurrection, etc. But if the work remained concealed so that no one knew of it, then it would be in vain and lost. That this treasure, therefore, might not lie buried, but be appropriated and enjoyed, God has caused the Word to go forth and be proclaimed, in which He gives the Holy Ghost to bring this treasure home and appropriate it to us. Therefore sanctifying is nothing else than bringing us to Christ to receive this good, to which we could not attain of ourselves."

Thus it is entirely apart from ourselves that we are saved and freely justified--this is solely by the work of Christ, which is ours as a gift, granted to us as grace by the working of the Holy Spirit through Word and Sacrament. That is to say, "All of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27).

Thus our salvation isn't found in our works, efforts, feelings, or even our beliefs. Our salvation is found in the Person and work of Jesus, and this alone; it is ours on account of God's grace alone, and which He appropriates to us through faith alone.

Rather than it being up to our "faithfulness" it would be more accurate to say that it is up to His faithfulness, and that He is faithful even when we are faithless. It's not about measuring up with some sort of quantity or quality of faith, or by our own efforts--these things will always fail, will always fall short, and if we measure our standing before God based on our own abilities we will always fail and fall into despair because we remain, until our last breath, sinners before a righteous God. But rather there is faith that trusts upon His faithfulness, and it is here that we remain confident of our salvation, and the hope we have in Him. If we come to reject Him, to turn away, and abandon Christ then yes we forfeit our salvation because Christ Himself is our salvation. Our salvation is not found in our abilities, or our faithfulness, or our strength, or our efforts; it is found solely in Jesus Christ--and thus we trust upon Him for our salvation, trusting in the promises of God's grace which our ours in Christ by the working of the Holy Spirit on our behalf.

So if I say it is "conditional" on our trusting in Christ, do not misunderstand in thinking that it is conditional on us getting things right, or getting our t's crossed, our i's dotted; it's not. But rather, it is about understanding Who our salvation is and that it is found no where else except Him.

-CryptoLutheran

So if it's in God's hands primarily, how does he ever lose those to hell.

 

[believeume]

That is an excellent question, believeume. Assuming one is genuinely saved to begin with, can one leave their salvation behind and be un-saved through losing/leaving one's faith. Scripture is not entirely clear on this subject.

Paul tells us:

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8:38-39)

Yet the author of Hebrews tells us:

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6)

There are two ways that we can reconcile these two passages. Some would say that Paul does not exclude someone deliberately walking away from their faith. On the other hand, those who hold to eternal security believe that the passage in Hebrews is speaking of people who were never truly saved. They would contend that the word "partakers" in the phrase "partakers of the Holy Spirit" does not mean posession/indwelling, but only an experience that included the Spirit.

The answer ultimately, in my mind, is that God does not intend us to be absolutely certain of our salvation as long as we are not walking in faith with Him. There are other passages on both sides of the debate.

So, if one wants to be certain of their salvation, walk in faith, trusting in Jesus, and everything will work itself out.

Romans and Hebrews, same author?

 

[believeume]

At the point of 'accepting' Jesus sacrifice for our sins, we crucified, buried and risen with Christ, and given a new nature where we have no desire to become unfaithful (though due to the weakness of our old nature we can stray).

Being risen with Christ has nothing to do with our faithfulness but His.

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
(Col 2:11-12)

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
(Rom 6:3-5)

Well I went through that, of what was believable. It's not like I actually knew knew at that time, later I thought I knew more. Then much later I released I knew nothing, then what I first believed flew out the window.

 

[believeume]

Salvation is conditional upon believing, effectual, Abrahamic-type faith being counted for righteousness, and appropriating justification, “for, if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.” (Galatians 3:21)

Yet which saving faith is that which effects the obedience of faith, "things that accompany salvation.' (Hebrews 6:9; cf. 1Ths. 1:4ff) ) The faith that is behind works is what justifies one in heart before God, but works justify one as being a true believer. Thus salvation is promised and given to those who believe and thus who obey, but the latter is not what appropriates justification for the sinner. (Jn. 3:16,36; 5:24; Rm. 2:13; 4:1-7ff; Mt, 25: 31-40)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28)

And as the just shall live by faith, thus we have many exhortations to continue in the faith:

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory [katechō=hold fast] what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. (1Co 15:1-2)

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. (Heb 3:6)

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (Heb 3:14)

Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. (Hebrews 10:35-36)

And thus the same believers are warned - as believers - against drawing back in unbelief, of falling from grace, making Christ of no effect, either by assent to a false gospel (such as salvation actually by merit) or impenitent sinning:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:1-4)

For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain. (1 Thessalonians 3:5)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:12)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. (Hebrews 10:26-30)

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:38-39)

Therefore God works via chastisement to bring us to repentance, for "when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:32)

Thus as Scripture exhorts souls to be saved by believing, which faith appropriates justification before God, making us accepted in the Beloved and seated with Him in Heaven, (Gal. 1:6;2:6) so that if we die in faith we shall ever be with the Lord; (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17)

So also we are exhorted to continue in the faith, and warned against forfeiting what faith appropriated. We cannot take any credit for believing and being saved, for we could not and would not believe unless God and convicted , (Jn. 16:8) drew, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32) and opened our heart, (Acts 16:14) and granted repentance (Acts 11:18) and gave faith, (Eph. 2:8,9) and then worked in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure the works He commands us to do. (Phil. 2:13; Eph. 2:10)

But neither can we blame God for falling away, for that is our choice which we are able to make.

That's alot of Bible passages to look up.

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es me off.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

That's alot of Bible passages to look up.[

That is what Truth-preachers and seekers do:

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (Luke 24:44)

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, (Acts 17:2)

For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. (Acts 18:28)

And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. (Acts 28:23)

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11)

 

[1watchman]

If this the case why do some Christians say to non believers who challenge them about the unfairness of eternal hell fire "Salvation is not up to me, God knows the heart"

I don't get that.

All souls are sinners before our holy God by nature and are under judgment of eternal condemnation. God knows the heart and mind of every soul for sure! Saints can only know one "by their fruits" as God says. He knows who has received His "beloved Son" and who has not ---some are ignorant and still seeking, and some are rebellious and are clearly rejecting God's "...so great salvation" Christians don't always know for sure if one is truly "born again", so they keep preaching Christ to help one who is not showing true devotion, communion, and trust in the Lord Jesus, the Christ of God (not just following His ways).

 

[believeume]

That is what Truth-preachers and seekers do:

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (Luke 24:44)

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, (Acts 17:2)

For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. (Acts 18:28)

And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. (Acts 28:23)

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11)

I've read the bible, I don't see a connection to what you're saying.

As much as I know the apostles when they quoted scripture it was interwoven with their teachings, sometimes they directly quoted verses, sometimes they got it wrong.

Can you see that.

 

[crossnote]

Well I went through that, of what was believable. It's not like I actually knew knew at that time, later I thought I knew more. Then much later I released I knew nothing, then what I first believed flew out the window.

Sounds like perhaps too much time spent with liberal serpents and wolves?

 

[believeume]

All souls are sinners before our holy God by nature and are under judgment of eternal condemnation. God knows the heart and mind of every soul for sure! Saints can only know one "by their fruits" as God says. He knows who has received His "beloved Son" and who has not ---some are ignorant and still seeking, and some are rebellious and are clearly rejecting God's "...so great salvation" Christians don't always know for sure if one is truly "born again", so they keep preaching Christ to help one who is not showing true devotion, communion, and trust in the Lord Jesus, the Christ of God (not just following His ways).

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[believeume]

Sounds like perhaps too much time spent with liberal serpents and wolves?

Probably.

 

[redleghunter]

So, if one wants to be certain of their salvation, walk in faith, trusting in Jesus, and everything will work itself out.

Sage advice.

 

[redleghunter]

The Bible is like a picture there's so many ways I can look at it.

We can all look at the words in our own understanding. That would be eisegesis. To know what the Author intended is exegesis.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...To know what the Author intended is exegesis.

Not usually.
I had to look it up to be sure:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exegesis

Definition of exegesis
plural exegesesplay \-ˈjē-(ˌ)sēz\

: exposition, explanation; especially : an explanation or critical interpretation of a text

 

[redleghunter]

That's alot of Bible passages to look up.

It's exploring Christianity. Should not be an issue to thumb through and examine what @PeaceByJesus listed.

 

[redleghunter]

Not usually.
I had to look it up to be sure:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exegesis

Definition of exegesis
plural exegesesplay \-ˈjē-(ˌ)sēz\

: exposition, explanation; especially : an explanation or critical interpretation of a text

Better explanation :

https://www.gotquestions.org/Biblical-exegesis.html

And here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html

 

[aiki]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

Blind post. Sorry.

In short, my answer to your question is "No." Salvation is a monergistic work of God in the believer. Paul writes that all of us before we were saved were "dead in trespasses and sins." (Eph. 2:1) As a result, we could not act to save ourselves, to contribute at all to the work of our redemption from sin. God had to reach down to us when we were "enemies in our minds toward God by our wicked works" (Col. 1:21), incapable of understanding or caring about God's gift of salvation, and illuminate our understanding, convict us of our sin, and draw us to Himself. Why is this important to realize? Because it shows us what role the quality of our conduct plays in our being adopted into God's family which is none at all. As Scripture declares,

Titus 3:4-6
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

If our behaviour has no part to play in our being saved, can it have any part to play in our remaining saved? No. Just as our salvation was not our doing, our continuing to be saved, to be an adopted child of God, is not our doing. We are "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:6) who is Christ on the basis of our acceptance of him as our Saviour and Lord. He clothes us in his perfect righteousness, his faultless righteousness is imputed to us, and this makes us acceptable to God. And just as Christ's righteousness is unchanging in its perfection, our acceptance by God on the basis of that moral perfection is also unchanging. God does not vacillate in His acceptance of us because His acceptance of us has nothing to do with us but with Christ. God is fully satisfied with Christ, fully accepting of Him always, and so, by extension, of us as well.

Can a genuine believer walk away from their adoption into God's family? I think not. Their adoption by God was never their doing. God took the initiative in saving them and He maintains that initiative as their Heavenly Father ever after. No one can undo what He has done in this regard. Our adoption is not ours to reject or refuse. It is God's work which He promises to bring to completion.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.

Selah.

 

[Anguspure]

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How about this thought from Pauls letter to the Romans:
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.(Romans 8)

 

[Anguspure]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

Here is a trustworthy saying that might give you an answer:
If we died with him, we will also live with him;
if we endure, we will also reign with him.
If we disown him, he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself. (2 Timothy 2)

 

[Berean777]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

Yes, as Jesus would say be faithful even unto death. Paul before his immanent execution would say I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

 

[Anguspure]

Yes, as Jesus would say be faithful even unto death. Paul before his immanent execution would say I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Paul wrote something different in his letter to Timothy for all of us who are Ragamuffin Christians:
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.(1 Timothy 1)