Is salvation conditional?

[believeume]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

 

[Uber Genius]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

Depends on your view of salvation. The Catholic view is synergistic, that is to say, God works and man works works of righteousness. So just being faithful to Jesus would not produce salvation on Catholicism.

On Calvinism, we don't even have the freedom to respond, or reject Christ if we are indeed "The Elect."

On the Arminian view our works play no part in justification, but do play a part in sanctification. Loss of salvation is not a result of sin except Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Which is rejecting the HS message of our sin condition and Christ's substitutionary death on the cross. If we reject Christ later in life we can have our name "blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

This area is known as eternal security of the believer. IVP press has a counterpoints book representing the various positions.

 

[redleghunter]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

I believe several have addressed this question in your thread named "working out your salvation." Same topic.

 

[1watchman]

I did not see the previous post on this subject, but I will share some thoughts here:

1. Salvation, according to the Bible --New Testament (the only place this matters today) is that repentance of one's sinful nature before God, and receiving God's beloved Son, the Lord Jesus, into one's heart as Savior, will bring the Holy Spirit to seal that one as a "child of God" forever (new birth --John 3; and see also 1 Jn. 5:10-12). No one can become unborn, though they sin at times.

2. One truly needs to be faithful to God and His Word for blessings in their new life in Christ, and rewards in Heaven; and one needs to be reading all the New Testament to know God and His mind for us.

3. One needs to be very sure they have received the Lord Jesus and are devoted to Him; not just trying to follow after His teachings and example.

 

[bling]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

After becoming a Christian, you have been showered with unbelievable wonderful gifts there is no more to give, but you are not immediately taken to heaven. You are given a birthright to heaven (this is like a deed to a home in heaven). This birthright cannot be stolen from you, misplaced (lost), earned, paid for down the road and even God will not take it back, but like Esau sold (gave away) his birthright, you can give your birthright away (since you truly own this deed to a heavenly home). Satan will buy this birthright from you as cheaply as you will sell it.

All the “commands” for the Christian are not there to get you anything; since you have it all, but are there to help you value your birthright. You do not want to get caught up in selfish love to the point Godly type Love has no value to you and thus you would give it up.

 

[crossnote]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

Your premise answers itself and then you interpose a question that inherently doubts/contradicts your premise.

One accepts God's Son's Sacrifice for their sins which means there they acquired Salvation (Jesus is our salvation) from sin destruction and hell ...all true because it is given as a gift.
But then you turn around and with a question doubt the Gift given by asking 'is it on condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?'.

That's like me giving you a car and then you asking 'do I have to drive it in order for it to be mine?'

 

[Greg J.]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

In Biblical terminology, you need to genuinely believe (trust, have faith) in Jesus. God will judge people according to their hearts. The Bible isn't clear on the minimum to be saved, because God's call is for people to devote themselves to him, not how they can squeak past punishment. If one thinks he is saved, but is not at least genuinely thankful to God for it, then they may actually have saving faith.

As a result of the Bible not clearly stating the minimum to be saved, humans have come up with lots of attempts to describe exactly what the minimum is to be saved is, but the detailed arguments need not necessarily be exactly the same for each person. God will judge people according to their hearts, not which pieces of information are in their minds. e.g., does one need to believe that God, the Father raised Jesus, the Son of God from the dead to be saved?

Here's the way I describe the "minimum," although as I said, only being interested in the minimum or examining the minimum might not be sufficient. In James chapter 2, James describes two kinds of faith ("faith" and "dead faith"). Saving faith always results in actions according to that faith. These two kinds of faith are applicable to more than just salvation.

If I tell you a meteor is going to crash into your office in the next few minutes, you probably wouldn't believe me. If you then saw an article on an Internet web site that a meteor was about to crash within a block of you, your faith that it wasn't going to happen might be shaken up. If you heard the local warning sirens and police using bullhorns to tell people to evacuate, you might believe the meteor was coming, but "who could really know if it was going to hit your office?" If three of your friends were at the window and said they could see the meteor and it was headed right at the window but a shower of dust prevented you from seeing the meteor for yourself, you would probably believe them enough to act on that information immediately. Only the last one is saving faith. The point is, you reached a point of genuine belief the meteor would hit your office, and as a result you acted on it—and it had nothing to do with the action you did or didn't take (leaving the building or not). At the end of every day, you leave the building, but on those other days leaving the building had nothing to do with faith about a meteor. What matters is what the faith was like in your heart about the meteor coming.

One way to describe the absolute minimum requirements is that one must:

• Believe God is real
• Believe that God sent his Son, Jesus, the Christ to pay the penalty of our sins for us
• Believe God is GOD (has the right to tell us what is right and wrong and to hold us accountable)
• Accept God as one's GOD (yield to this Lordship and thus, his commands)

Having saving faith in these will always result in a person taking action from their heart (not because they think they're "supposed" to take action).

Beyond these basic points, it matters who you ask, but more importantly it matters what the context is in which you are asking. The salvation message could include other (also important) things. Does the person believe we have all done wrong and have no way to pay for our wrongs (we can't change what we did in the past)? Does a person need to believe what God said in the Bible, such as God, the Father raised Jesus from the dead?

A person who has genuinely believed is saved, but he won't know he is saved. The desire to know one's Lord better is the result of genuine salvation. The pursuit to know about God more (and know him better personally) will raise questions in a person's heart and mind about what God asserts in the Bible. After understanding what God said, believing (the kind that turns into actions) what he said will grow the person's faith. Eventually there will be enough faith that a person knows they are saved. Doubts will arise along the way. How one handles those doubts matters a huge amount. The person either chooses to keep moving forward in believing (and looks for evidence) or stalls or turns away. No one but God knows without a doubt when a person is actually saved.

Some will say that they want to believe, but just don't. Everyone starts out that way in some fashion. Believing the truth about God is a gift that God grants. Such people need to ask God to grant them to believe in the truth about him. If it is genuinely true that they want to believe, then they will start doing what God said: be obedient (which includes learning what it means to be obedient). It is not the obedience which saves, but God grants faith in response to our efforts to do what we think God wants rather than what we want (i.e., obedience).

 

[ViaCrucis]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

This is what I'd describe as a "transactional" view of salvation: Salvation involves a transaction--I accept X, Y, and Z and God responds by saving me.

That's a common idea, but it's far from how many--most--Christians understand salvation.

As others noted, there are several views you'll find among Christians; I'd argue that even where you find very different views among Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminians, Catholics, and Orthodox they all will more than likely identify salvation not as some sort of transaction, but rather about being in Christ. The locus of salvation is going to be placed in the person of Jesus, His death on the cross, and His resurrection from the dead--and thus the question is going to be chiefly how do we become the benefactors of His saving work?

As a Lutheran I believe that this involves the gracious work of God, apart from myself (even my own will), through the efficacious means of His Word and Sacraments to grant and create faith in me. Lutherans speak of faith as extra nos, that is, "from outside ourselves", meaning that faith is something God gives us, something God creates and puts in us.

From Luther's Large Catechism:

"For neither you nor I could ever know anything of Christ, or believe on Him, and obtain Him for our Lord, unless it were offered to us and granted to our hearts by the Holy Ghost through the preaching of the Gospel. The work is done and accomplished; for Christ has acquired and gained the treasure for us by His suffering, death, resurrection, etc. But if the work remained concealed so that no one knew of it, then it would be in vain and lost. That this treasure, therefore, might not lie buried, but be appropriated and enjoyed, God has caused the Word to go forth and be proclaimed, in which He gives the Holy Ghost to bring this treasure home and appropriate it to us. Therefore sanctifying is nothing else than bringing us to Christ to receive this good, to which we could not attain of ourselves."

Thus it is entirely apart from ourselves that we are saved and freely justified--this is solely by the work of Christ, which is ours as a gift, granted to us as grace by the working of the Holy Spirit through Word and Sacrament. That is to say, "All of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27).

Thus our salvation isn't found in our works, efforts, feelings, or even our beliefs. Our salvation is found in the Person and work of Jesus, and this alone; it is ours on account of God's grace alone, and which He appropriates to us through faith alone.

Rather than it being up to our "faithfulness" it would be more accurate to say that it is up to His faithfulness, and that He is faithful even when we are faithless. It's not about measuring up with some sort of quantity or quality of faith, or by our own efforts--these things will always fail, will always fall short, and if we measure our standing before God based on our own abilities we will always fail and fall into despair because we remain, until our last breath, sinners before a righteous God. But rather there is faith that trusts upon His faithfulness, and it is here that we remain confident of our salvation, and the hope we have in Him. If we come to reject Him, to turn away, and abandon Christ then yes we forfeit our salvation because Christ Himself is our salvation. Our salvation is not found in our abilities, or our faithfulness, or our strength, or our efforts; it is found solely in Jesus Christ--and thus we trust upon Him for our salvation, trusting in the promises of God's grace which our ours in Christ by the working of the Holy Spirit on our behalf.

So if I say it is "conditional" on our trusting in Christ, do not misunderstand in thinking that it is conditional on us getting things right, or getting our t's crossed, our i's dotted; it's not. But rather, it is about understanding Who our salvation is and that it is found no where else except Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[food4thought]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

That is an excellent question, believeume. Assuming one is genuinely saved to begin with, can one leave their salvation behind and be un-saved through losing/leaving one's faith. Scripture is not entirely clear on this subject.

Paul tells us:

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8:38-39)

Yet the author of Hebrews tells us:

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6)

There are two ways that we can reconcile these two passages. Some would say that Paul does not exclude someone deliberately walking away from their faith. On the other hand, those who hold to eternal security believe that the passage in Hebrews is speaking of people who were never truly saved. They would contend that the word "partakers" in the phrase "partakers of the Holy Spirit" does not mean posession/indwelling, but only an experience that included the Spirit.

The answer ultimately, in my mind, is that God does not intend us to be absolutely certain of our salvation as long as we are not walking in faith with Him. There are other passages on both sides of the debate.

So, if one wants to be certain of their salvation, walk in faith, trusting in Jesus, and everything will work itself out.

 

[Kenny'sID]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

Absolutely.

Some teach the easy way, the way they choose to believe because, well...it's the easy way, they can have the cake and eat it too. That deception also draws congregations.

And some preach the truth, the truth of the narrow and wide path, the truth that the easy way does away with completely. They make the narrow path wide, meaning it is no longer a chore to follow it.

And some will state those that took the easy way and end up in hell, never were saved to begin with, while the reason they were never saved is someone taught them the easy way and they bought it hook, line and sinker.

It's a mess these days when it comes to asking people what the deal is, so read your Bible, and don't go into it all with selfishness in your heart and I'm confident you will get the truth.

 

[believeume]

Depends on your view of salvation. The Catholic view is synergistic, that is to say, God works and man works works of righteousness. So just being faithful to Jesus would not produce salvation on Catholicism.

On Calvinism, we don't even have the freedom to respond, or reject Christ if we are indeed "The Elect."

On the Arminian view our works play no part in justification, but do play a part in sanctification. Loss of salvation is not a result of sin except Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Which is rejecting the HS message of our sin condition and Christ's substitutionary death on the cross. If we reject Christ later in life we can have our name "blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

This area is known as eternal security of the believer. IVP press has a counterpoints book representing the various positions.

Thank you for those tidbits of information, do you know more.

Yum yum yum.

 

[believeume]

I believe several have addressed this question in your thread named "working out your salvation." Same topic.

The Bible is like a picture there's so many ways I can look at it.

 

[crossnote]

The Bible is like a picture there's so many ways I can look at it.

When the Author (of Scripture) is abiding in you, then there is the Author's way vs so many other ways.

 

[believeume]

I did not see the previous post on this subject, but I will share some thoughts here:

1. Salvation, according to the Bible --New Testament (the only place this matters today) is that repentance of one's sinful nature before God, and receiving God's beloved Son, the Lord Jesus, into one's heart as Savior, will bring the Holy Spirit to seal that one as a "child of God" forever (new birth --John 3; and see also 1 Jn. 5:10-12). No one can become unborn, though they sin at times.

2. One truly needs to be faithful to God and His Word for blessings in their new life in Christ, and rewards in Heaven; and one needs to be reading all the New Testament to know God and His mind for us.

3. One needs to be very sure they have received the Lord Jesus and are devoted to Him; not just trying to follow after His teachings and example.

If this the case why do some Christians say to non believers who challenge them about the unfairness of eternal hell fire "Salvation is not up to me, God knows the heart"

I don't get that.

 

[believeume]

After becoming a Christian, you have been showered with unbelievable wonderful gifts there is no more to give, but you are not immediately taken to heaven. You are given a birthright to heaven (this is like a deed to a home in heaven). This birthright cannot be stolen from you, misplaced (lost), earned, paid for down the road and even God will not take it back, but like Esau sold (gave away) his birthright, you can give your birthright away (since you truly own this deed to a heavenly home). Satan will buy this birthright from you as cheaply as you will sell it.

All the “commands” for the Christian are not there to get you anything; since you have it all, but are there to help you value your birthright. You do not want to get caught up in selfish love to the point Godly type Love has no value to you and thus you would give it up.

Whooooo are you.

Terrific stuff, that would mean I'm still born again.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The Bible is like a picture there's so many ways I can look at it.

The Devil loves to distort that picture. There are many ways to see it, our choice, often brought on by our motives, but it remains the one single picture.

 

[believeume]

Your premise answers itself and then you interpose a question that inherently doubts/contradicts your premise.

One accepts God's Son's Sacrifice for their sins which means their they acquired Salvation (Jesus is our salvation) from sin destruction and hell ...all true because it is given as a gift.
But then you turn around and with a question doubt the Gift given by asking 'is it on condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?'.

That's like me giving you a car and then you asking 'do I have to drive it in order for it to be mine?'

Well at the point of accepting Jesus sacrifice for your sin, can you know Jesus enough then to not remain faithful?

Is the condition to remain faithful contingent on not going to hell?

Because then how do you really love anyone on a contingency.

 

[crossnote]

Well at the point of accepting Jesus sacrifice for your sin, can you know Jesus enough then to not remain faithful?

Is the condition to remain faithful contingent on not going to hell?

Because then how do you really love anyone on a contingency.

At the point of 'accepting' Jesus sacrifice for our sins, we crucified, buried and risen with Christ, and given a new nature where we have no desire to become unfaithful (though due to the weakness of our old nature we can stray).

Being risen with Christ has nothing to do with our faithfulness but His.

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
(Col 2:11-12)

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
(Rom 6:3-5)

 

[PeaceByJesus]

After accepting God's sacrifice, his son Jesus the Christ. And from there acquiring salvation from sin and destruction/hell, is it on the condition that you remain faithful to Jesus?

Salvation is conditional upon believing, effectual, Abrahamic-type faith being counted for righteousness, and appropriating justification, “for, if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.” (Galatians 3:21)

Yet which saving faith is that which effects the obedience of faith, "things that accompany salvation.' (Hebrews 6:9; cf. 1Ths. 1:4ff) ) The faith that is behind works is what justifies one in heart before God, but works justify one as being a true believer. Thus salvation is promised and given to those who believe and thus who obey, but the latter is not what appropriates justification for the sinner. (Jn. 3:16,36; 5:24; Rm. 2:13; 4:1-7ff; Mt, 25: 31-40)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28)

And as the just shall live by faith, thus we have many exhortations to continue in the faith:

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory [katechō=hold fast] what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. (1Co 15:1-2)

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. (Heb 3:6)

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (Heb 3:14)

Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. (Hebrews 10:35-36)

And thus the same believers are warned - as believers - against drawing back in unbelief, of falling from grace, making Christ of no effect, either by assent to a false gospel (such as salvation actually by merit) or impenitent sinning:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:1-4)

For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain. (1 Thessalonians 3:5)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:12)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. (Hebrews 10:26-30)

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:38-39)

Therefore God works via chastisement to bring us to repentance, for "when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:32)

Thus as Scripture exhorts souls to be saved by believing, which faith appropriates justification before God, making us accepted in the Beloved and seated with Him in Heaven, (Gal. 1:6;2:6) so that if we die in faith we shall ever be with the Lord; (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17)

So also we are exhorted to continue in the faith, and warned against forfeiting what faith appropriated. We cannot take any credit for believing and being saved, for we could not and would not believe unless God and convicted , (Jn. 16:8) drew, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32) and opened our heart, (Acts 16:14) and granted repentance (Acts 11:18) and gave faith, (Eph. 2:8,9) and then worked in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure the works He commands us to do. (Phil. 2:13; Eph. 2:10)

But neither can we blame God for falling away, for that is our choice which we are able to make.

 

[believeume]

In Biblical terminology, you need to genuinely believe (trust, have faith) in Jesus. God will judge people according to their hearts. The Bible isn't clear on the minimum to be saved, because God's call is for people to devote themselves to him, not how they can squeak past punishment. If one thinks he is saved, but is not at least genuinely thankful to God for it, then they may actually have saving faith.

As a result of the Bible not clearly stating the minimum to be saved, humans have come up with lots of attempts to describe exactly what the minimum is to be saved is, but the detailed arguments need not necessarily be exactly the same for each person. God will judge people according to their hearts, not which pieces of information are in their minds. e.g., does one need to believe that God, the Father raised Jesus, the Son of God from the dead to be saved?

Here's the way I describe the "minimum," although as I said, only being interested in the minimum or examining the minimum might not be sufficient. In James chapter 2, James describes two kinds of faith ("faith" and "dead faith"). Saving faith always results in actions according to that faith. These two kinds of faith are applicable to more than just salvation.

If I tell you a meteor is going to crash into your office in the next few minutes, you probably wouldn't believe me. If you then saw an article on an Internet web site that a meteor was about to crash within a block of you, your faith that it wasn't going to happen might be shaken up. If you heard the local warning sirens and police using bullhorns to tell people to evacuate, you might believe the meteor was coming, but "who could really know if it was going to hit your office?" If three of your friends were at the window and said they could see the meteor and it was headed right at the window but a shower of dust prevented you from seeing the meteor for yourself, you would probably believe them enough to act on that information immediately. Only the last one is saving faith. The point is, you reached a point of genuine belief the meteor would hit your office, and as a result you acted on it—and it had nothing to do with the action you did or didn't take (leaving the building or not). At the end of every day, you leave the building, but on those other days leaving the building had nothing to do with faith about a meteor. What matters is what the faith was like in your heart about the meteor coming.

One way to describe the absolute minimum requirements is that one must:

• Believe God is real
• Believe that God sent his Son, Jesus, the Christ to pay the penalty of our sins for us
• Believe God is GOD (has the right to tell us what is right and wrong and to hold us accountable)
• Accept God as one's GOD (yield to this Lordship and thus, his commands)

Having saving faith in these will always result in a person taking action from their heart (not because they think they're "supposed" to take action).

Beyond these basic points, it matters who you ask, but more importantly it matters what the context is in which you are asking. The salvation message could include other (also important) things. Does the person believe we have all done wrong and have no way to pay for our wrongs (we can't change what we did in the past)? Does a person need to believe what God said in the Bible, such as God, the Father raised Jesus from the dead?

A person who has genuinely believed is saved, but he won't know he is saved. The desire to know one's Lord better is the result of genuine salvation. The pursuit to know about God more (and know him better personally) will raise questions in a person's heart and mind about what God asserts in the Bible. After understanding what God said, believing (the kind that turns into actions) what he said will grow the person's faith. Eventually there will be enough faith that a person knows they are saved. Doubts will arise along the way. How one handles those doubts matters a huge amount. The person either chooses to keep moving forward in believing (and looks for evidence) or stalls or turns away. No one but God knows without a doubt when a person is actually saved.

Some will say that they want to believe, but just don't. Everyone starts out that way in some fashion. Believing the truth about God is a gift that God grants. Such people need to ask God to grant them to believe in the truth about him. If it is genuinely true that they want to believe, then they will start doing what God said: be obedient (which includes learning what it means to be obedient). It is not the obedience which saves, but God grants faith in response to our efforts to do what we think God wants rather than what we want (i.e., obedience).

In Biblical terminology, you need to genuinely believe (trust, have faith) in Jesus. God will judge people according to their hearts. The Bible isn't clear on the minimum to be saved, because God's call is for people to devote themselves to him, not how they can squeak past punishment. If one thinks he is saved, but is not at least genuinely thankful to God for it, then they may actually have saving faith.

As a result of the Bible not clearly stating the minimum to be saved, humans have come up with lots of attempts to describe exactly what the minimum is to be saved is, but the detailed arguments need not necessarily be exactly the same for each person. God will judge people according to their hearts, not which pieces of information are in their minds. e.g., does one need to believe that God, the Father raised Jesus, the Son of God from the dead to be saved?

Here's the way I describe the "minimum," although as I said, only being interested in the minimum or examining the minimum might not be sufficient. In James chapter 2, James describes two kinds of faith ("faith" and "dead faith"). Saving faith always results in actions according to that faith. These two kinds of faith are applicable to more than just salvation.

If I tell you a meteor is going to crash into your office in the next few minutes, you probably wouldn't believe me. If you then saw an article on an Internet web site that a meteor was about to crash within a block of you, your faith that it wasn't going to happen might be shaken up. If you heard the local warning sirens and police using bullhorns to tell people to evacuate, you might believe the meteor was coming, but "who could really know if it was going to hit your office?" If three of your friends were at the window and said they could see the meteor and it was headed right at the window but a shower of dust prevented you from seeing the meteor for yourself, you would probably believe them enough to act on that information immediately. Only the last one is saving faith. The point is, you reached a point of genuine belief the meteor would hit your office, and as a result you acted on it—and it had nothing to do with the action you did or didn't take (leaving the building or not). At the end of every day, you leave the building, but on those other days leaving the building had nothing to do with faith about a meteor. What matters is what the faith was like in your heart about the meteor coming.

One way to describe the absolute minimum requirements is that one must:

• Believe God is real
• Believe that God sent his Son, Jesus, the Christ to pay the penalty of our sins for us
• Believe God is GOD (has the right to tell us what is right and wrong and to hold us accountable)
• Accept God as one's GOD (yield to this Lordship and thus, his commands)

Having saving faith in these will always result in a person taking action from their heart (not because they think they're "supposed" to take action).

Beyond these basic points, it matters who you ask, but more importantly it matters what the context is in which you are asking. The salvation message could include other (also important) things. Does the person believe we have all done wrong and have no way to pay for our wrongs (we can't change what we did in the past)? Does a person need to believe what God said in the Bible, such as God, the Father raised Jesus from the dead?

A person who has genuinely believed is saved, but he won't know he is saved. The desire to know one's Lord better is the result of genuine salvation. The pursuit to know about God more (and know him better personally) will raise questions in a person's heart and mind about what God asserts in the Bible. After understanding what God said, believing (the kind that turns into actions) what he said will grow the person's faith. Eventually there will be enough faith that a person knows they are saved. Doubts will arise along the way. How one handles those doubts matters a huge amount. The person either chooses to keep moving forward in believing (and looks for evidence) or stalls or turns away. No one but God knows without a doubt when a person is actually saved.

Some will say that they want to believe, but just don't. Everyone starts out that way in some fashion. Believing the truth about God is a gift that God grants. Such people need to ask God to grant them to believe in the truth about him. If it is genuinely true that they want to believe, then they will start doing what God said: be obedient (which includes learning what it means to be obedient). It is not the obedience which saves, but God grants faith in response to our efforts to do what we think God wants rather than what we want (i.e., obedience).

Oh ok I get that concept.