Is revelation ongoing?

[anopenhand]

Simple question; do many Christians believe that more prophets will/have come since the time of Christ?

 

[Rescued One]

Simple question; do many Christians believe that more prophets will/have come since Christ?

Do we need more scripture or were God's words in the Bible sufficient? Do we have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth or has the Holy Spirit been sent away? Is the Holy Spirit incapable of teaching us truth? Where is our faith?

The Holy Spirit reveals truth to us; isn't that revelation?

Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

 

[anopenhand]

Agreed Phoebe. Some congregants in my Church didn't think so, I just wanted to see what others thought.

 

[Swart]

Simple question; do many Christians believe that more prophets will/have come since Christ?

Most Christians don't, however, this is at odds with Bible teachings on the matter.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Ephesians 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[A New Dawn]

Prophecy is a gift of the spirit, but I guess it depends on what you mean by "prophets". Do you mean someone to steer us back on course? or to speak to us from God? In the OT, all the prophecies foretold of Christ. Christ has been revealed, and, as Phoebe Ann posted, the Bible says that God speaks to us in the last days through His Son. The Holy Spirit's job is to guide us to all truth, so I'm not seeing a role in prophets at this time.

God's greatest revelation was Christ, and Christ reveals himself to us, so revelation, in that sense, is ongoing, but I don't think that there is anything else that needs revealed to us. We have it all in Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

Prophecy is a gift of the spirit, but I guess it depends on what you mean by "prophets". Do you mean someone to steer us back on course? or to speak to us from God? In the OT, all the prophecies foretold of Christ. Christ has been revealed, and, as Phoebe Ann posted, the Bible says that God speaks to us in the last days through His Son. The Holy Spirit's job is to guide us to all truth, so I'm not seeing a role in prophets at this time.

God's greatest revelation was Christ, and Christ reveals himself to us, so revelation, in that sense, is ongoing, but I don't think that there is anything else that needs revealed to us. We have it all in Christ.

 

[interpreter]

Yes, the Revelation is ongoing. It began to unfold in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds, and Jesus came into power through the first Christian horseman, St. Consatntine, who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow.
It has unfolded until currently the US is the 4th horseman to rule the earth, founded by George Washington who rode a pale horse. Our nuclear weapons bring hell and death.

 

[interpreter]

Yes, I believe that more prophets have come since the time of Christ. First, it could be argued that St. John was one. There was also Bosnia's Prince Lazarus (who predicted the rise of Republica Serpska), and George Washington (who predicted the fall of the twin towers) to name a few. And I don't like to brag, but I also predicted 9/11 (in 2001 in Bible Prophecy on Beliefnet).

 

[Martinius]

Simple question; do many Christians believe that more prophets will/have come since the time of Christ?

Revelation is never ending; it would only stop if no new humans were being born and if the processes of thought and discernment of faith stopped occurring. Prophets since the time of Christ? Not sure about that, but we could certainly use a good one right now.

In the OT, all the prophecies foretold of Christ.

I don't think you mean ALL the prophecies, as there were many, many prophets and prophecies and some of them were addressed to the people of that time and were about things occurring at that time. Not every prophecy was foretelling Christ.

I don't think that there is anything else that needs revealed to us.

How would we know until it was revealed? I have the feeling most people believed as you did in the year 29 A.D., but they were wrong.

The Holy Spirit reveals truth to us; isn't that revelation?

Exactly. The Holy Spirit works within us and among us constantly, so we never know what will be revealed to us, or from what direction it will come. God does not usually hammer revelations into us or illuminate them in neon lights. Revelation is usually quite subtle, so we must be alert to it at all times.

 

[A New Dawn]

How would we know until it was revealed? I have the feeling most people believed as you did in the year 29 A.D., but they were wrong.

Believed as I did .......... how is that?

Do you believe that there is something greater than Christ that needs to be revealed?

 

[Martinius]

Believed as I did .......... how is that?

That there is nothing else to be revealed.

Do you believe that there is something greater than Christ that needs to be revealed?

Not necessarily greater but more, certainly. Just thinking about all the disagreements and controversies over what Jesus said and did and what it means to mankind could indicate that not everything has been revealed. We have incomplete understanding. If that wasn't the case, all the output from philosophers, theologians and preachers over the centuries was for....what?

You said that revelation is "ongoing". You also referred to the two meanings and uses of prophecy, and to me the most important of those may be "to steer us back on course". That is what many of the OT prophets were trying to do, and what Jesus was trying to do. The need is still there.

 

[A New Dawn]

That there is nothing else to be revealed.



Not necessarily greater but more, certainly. Just thinking about all the disagreements and controversies over what Jesus said and did and what it means to mankind could indicate that not everything has been revealed. We have incomplete understanding. If that wasn't the case, all the output from philosophers, theologians and preachers over the centuries was for....what?

You said that revelation is "ongoing". You also referred to the two meanings and uses of prophecy, and to me the most important of those may be "to steer us back on course". That is what many of the OT prophets were trying to do, and what Jesus was trying to do. The need is still there.

This was the reasoning behind such modern day prophets such as Joseph Smith, Moon, Koresh, etc. How do we decide, if someone comes out with something that disagrees with what the Bible says, who is right and who isn't? And if they reveal something that is not different from the Bible, then what is the use of that revelation? Not trying to be difficult, but, having come out of a sister church to the LDS, and having to come to grips with the ramifications of "prophecy", etc., I have to doubt, highly, that there is more to be revealed, and since Christ said "It is finished", I have to believe Him.

 

[Martinius]

How do we decide, if someone comes out with something that disagrees with what the Bible says, who is right and who isn't? And if they reveal something that is not different from the Bible, then what is the use of that revelation? Not trying to be difficult, but, having come out of a sister church to the LDS, and having to come to grips with the ramifications of "prophecy", etc., I have to doubt, highly, that there is more to be revealed, and since Christ said "It is finished", I have to believe Him.

I was responding to and building on what you said, which was that revelation is ongoing and that one purpose of prophecy is to guide us back to the right path. NOT new paths or different paths, but the right path. If everyone is walking the right path now then there is no need for prophets, but I suspect that neither you nor I think that everyone is following the right "way".

I cannot agree with the idea that when Jesus said "it is finished" he was talking about revelation. The fact of his resurrection disproves that. The most important of his revelations occurred after he rose from the dead.

Finally, something could be revealed that is not different from the bible and still be important. Did Jesus really reveal anything "new"? Or was it the authority with which he taught, and the ways he demonstrated and emphasized his teachings?

I look at what some people have done or said in the past 2,000 years about God, Christianity and the Gospel and see much of it as additional revelation, of either clarifying what the Gospel message was about or prodding us to change our lives (repent) and live according to God's commands.

 

[SoftSpoken]

This was the reasoning behind such modern day prophets such as Joseph Smith, Moon, Koresh, etc. How do we decide, if someone comes out with something that disagrees with what the Bible says, who is right and who isn't?

Additional questions would be "How do I know if the interpretation of the Bible that I accept is correct?" because there are multitudinous interpretations of it. And "Can one even begin to accurately square extra-Biblical teachings with the truths of the Bible until he is actually in possession of the truths of the Bible?" And like you, I'm not trying to be difficult.

And if they reveal something that is not different from the Bible, then what is the use of that revelation? Not trying to be difficult, but, having come out of a sister church to the LDS, and having to come to grips with the ramifications of "prophecy", etc., I have to doubt, highly, that there is more to be revealed, and since Christ said "It is finished", I have to believe Him.

I don't believe that Christ was declaring all prophecy to have been finished. In fact, the apostles went on to prophesy a great many things beyond what had been prophesied prior to the resurrection of Christ. Was Christ not simply declaring the atonement to have been finished?

 

[A New Dawn]

I don't believe that Christ was declaring all prophecy to have been finished. In fact, the apostles went on to prophesy a great many things beyond what had been prophesied prior to the resurrection of Christ. Was Christ not simply declaring the atonement to have been finished?

I think Christ was referring to most everything when he said "It is finished". Except for the Revelation of St. John, the only other revelation given in the NT was that the gospel was to be taken to the gentiles, also, but that wasn't even a new revelation, per se, Christ did heal the daughter of the Roman centurion, and he did accept the rebuke of the Greek woman who wanted him to cast out the devil from her daughter in Mark, so really, there is nothing new since Christ died. Most of the NT is application of what Jesus said and did.

 

[SoftSpoken]

I think Christ was referring to most everything when he said "It is finished". Except for the Revelation of St. John, the only other revelation given in the NT was that the gospel was to be taken to the gentiles, also, but that wasn't even a new revelation, per se, Christ did heal the daughter of the Roman centurion, and he did accept the rebuke of the Greek woman who wanted him to cast out the devil from her daughter in Mark, so really, there is nothing new since Christ died. Most of the NT is application of what Jesus said and did.

I understand your point of view. I'm not personally able to square it with what I see in the Bible though. Even if there were only one new revelation beyond (as in a revelation of truths not pre-dating Christ's resurrection), then it is clear that revelation/prophecy did not cease with the resurrection. And you seem to agree that there was at least one. If there was one, why could there not be more yet?

 

[A New Dawn]

I understand your point of view. I'm not personally able to square it with what I see in the Bible though. Even if there were only one new revelation beyond (as in a revelation of truths not pre-dating Christ's resurrection), then it is clear that revelation/prophecy did not cease with the resurrection. And you seem to agree that there was at least one. If there was one, why could there not be more yet?

I guess we don't disagree that there is prophecy/revelation, what we do disagree about is the nature and purpose of the revelation/prophecy.

 

[Rescued One]

Exactly. The Holy Spirit works within us and among us constantly, so we never know what will be revealed to us, or from what direction it will come. God does not usually hammer revelations into us or illuminate them in neon lights. Revelation is usually quite subtle, so we must be alert to it at all times.

New revelation to the the church is not necessary; we have the word of God. The purpose of revelation from the Holy Spirit is to guide us and teach us what has been revealed to the body of Christ.

One person shares the Word of God with us; the Holy Spirit convicts us and washes us with regeneration. He opens our eyes. Then the Holy Spirit continues to guide us and remind us of what we have been taught.

 

[Rescued One]

I was responding to and building on what you said, which was that revelation is ongoing and that one purpose of prophecy is to guide us back to the right path. NOT new paths or different paths, but the right path. If everyone is walking the right path now then there is no need for prophets, but I suspect that neither you nor I think that everyone is following the right "way".

If, in the Millennium, there are some who still need conversion, then additional prophecy wouldn't be the solution. Conversion is a matter of the heart and the word of God. He reveals the truth of it to us.

Finally, something could be revealed that is not different from the bible and still be important.

If it is not different from the Bible, it is in the Bible.

What is important is believing the scripture that has been revealed and how it should apply to our lives. The scripture teaches us what we need to know about doing the works we were ordained to walk in.

I look at what some people have done or said in the past 2,000 years about God, Christianity and the Gospel and see much of it as additional revelation, of either clarifying what the Gospel message was about or prodding us to change our lives (repent) and live according to God's commands.

The commandments are right there in the Bible. The Gospel message is also clear to those who believe it. Of course, there is opposition to it. How does the fact that there is opposition to it make it untrue or inadequate?

 

[SoftSpoken]

I guess we don't disagree that there is prophecy/revelation, what we do disagree about is the nature and purpose of the revelation/prophecy.

That could be. I'd say that ultimately all revelation is inteded to strengthen our faith in Christ, but that there are often other purposes as well.