Is Remaining in Illness God's Will?

Alive_Again · Dec 3, 2012

It is a sobering thought to consider our actions or inactions have consequences and those consequences cost us something. In his case, it cost him 1% use of his arm. No pain, but just a reminder.

It is reasonable to assume that many do not give heed to the word in their lives (for them in their hearts) and years go by and they pay a much higher price. These are no doubt the secret things that belong unto the Lord that He spoke to Hagin at times.

It's also a lesson though that if we repent, He WILL heal us of our infirmities.

K2K · Dec 3, 2012

JimB said:
It seems dishonest to me to preach something you admit you cant live. Word are cheap. You can claim anything, but the proof of the pie is in the pudding and the proof of the pudding is in the eating. James 2.18 says as much: Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

If you really believe God can replace a limb by an act of faith, show me; dont lecture me. The old "proof by silence" works here too. If you say that Jesus never turned anyone away unhealed or never refused to heal someone who came to him for healing because the scripture is silent on the subject and, therefore, that's "proof" that all who come to Jesus (in faith, of course) will be healed, then I can use that same standard to say that Jesus never replaced an amputated limb because there is no record in scripture that he ever did. Its a silly argument on both sides. We do not know whether Jesus ever replaced an amputated limb or not because, according to Johns testimony, there are many things that Jesus did that are not recorded in scriptureThere many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. (John 21.25).

The Scriptures explained clearly that all things are possible with God!!

Do we believe that!!

The Scriptures also show that we tend to be men of little faith. Can we accept that and work on it?

The Scriptures also have much to say against scoffers. Can we look at ourselves to see if the log is in our own eye?

If someone says they believe in the Bible and their preaching is based upon it, then turn around and say that somethings are not possible with God, are they indeed preaching the Jesus Christ in the Bible? No.

If someone says I won't believe it until it see it; is that a man living by faith?

I have seen God do incredible things in my life, which people will not believe even though I testify to them. And it is written that if all the things Jesus did (and that even in the short time He had on earth) were written down, perhaps the whole earth could not contain them.

I met a man that prayed for a nostril for a girl that had been born with only one nostril, and instantly the girl got another nostril. And I have seen and have heard many tell me about limbs growing longer. So knowing that we are men, not God or even angels and do not have their type of faith, and we men have still seen limbs grow, how is it someone can think that a God to whom all things are possible can't grow out an entire limb?

Jesus told those in Nazareth (people He grew up with) that He couldn't do great miracles there because of their disbelief. So what do we say about our belief when we say God can't do this or that?

What does a scoffer sound like? What does a perseon who lacks faith sound like?

Perhaps God might not do everything that I want; do I do everything that He wants? But I should not like to find myself saying, "not all things are possible with God." I would then find myself clearly saying the opposite of my Lord and what is written in the Scriptures which claim to be correct.

And concerning those that say "show me", didn't Jesus say to the city of Nazarath, "No doubt you will quote this proverb to Me, 'Physician, heal yourself' (Lk 4:23) They were scoffers saying 'show me', but He told them "Truly I say to you, no prophet is welcome in his hometown..."

Yes - Jesus Christ is preached and grows up in many that are in churches today, but they turn out to be scoffers who say "show me", instead of living with a faith that says "All things are possible with God." So they say show me, instead of asking Him, to whom all things are possible, for help.

If you have a limb that needs to be grown out, or even a missing limb, start talking to Him to whom all things are possible. Ask Him if He is willing, and listen by faith.

My wife had cartiledge removed from her knee, and it was replace by God during a meeting that a Bill Johnson lead. Bill explained that God wanted to fix people's knees who had surgery to remove cartiledge. Then asked those who had that surgery to stand up, and had the people around them pray. Bill reminded the people that because the cartiledge was no longer there, that the people praying need to pray for a 'creative miracle', not healing.

God is the Creator, and Bill Johnson understood that and believed that. I saw a great miracle happen in my wife that day because of his belief. It was a creative miracle, not a healing. And I thank God that He is the Creator, and for the people who prayed and believed like Bill Johnson (the guest speaker) for a creative miracle.

I post on the Charismatic portion of this sight, because I like those who believe for more, not less. I like the discusions about God on this sight. A person might learn the difference between a creative miracle and a healing miracle. Yet I don't like hearing people scoff at God. I can love the people, but not the scoffing. All things are possible with God!!! Believe it~~

Ps My Lord wanted me to add that; "act of faith and show me, - do not belong next to each other!"

Frogster · Dec 3, 2012

the problem is, all the countless christians that have faith, asked to be healed, believe in the Lord, are lower class citizens, because there is no mercy for them, because they are being beat up with text because they for some reason are not healed, so any doctrine that omits grace, and has no mercy, is not of God.

and that also means, anyone poor, like the macedonians churches were, or the jerusalem church, don't have "faith" either, because they have not "received the blessing", like they did not ask or something.

same thing, healing or financial issues, it's all a doctrine of non mercy in any church that presents it that way, any denomination, in it's awful presentation, where only "the strong" survive.

Frogster · Dec 3, 2012

K2K said:
The Scriptures explained clearly that all things are possible with God!!

Do we believe that!!

The Scriptures also show that we tend to be men of little faith. Can we accept that and work on it?

The Scriptures also have much to say against scoffers. Can we look at ourselves to see if the log is in our own eye?

If someone says they believe in the Bible and their preaching is based upon it, then turn around and say that somethings are not possible with God, are they indeed preaching the Jesus Christ in the Bible? No.

If someone says I won't believe it until it see it; is that a man living by faith?

I have seen God do incredible things in my life, which people will not believe even though I testify to them. And it is written that if all the things Jesus did (and that even in the short time He had on earth) were written down, perhaps the whole earth could not contain them.

I met a man that prayed for a nostril for a girl that had been born with only one nostril, and instantly the girl got another nostril. And I have seen and have heard many tell me about limbs growing longer. So knowing that we are men, not God or even angels and do not have their type of faith, and we men have still seen limbs grow, how is it someone can think that a God to whom all things are possible can't grow out an entire limb?

Jesus told those in Nazareth (people He grew up with) that He couldn't do great miracles there because of their disbelief. So what do we say about our belief when we say God can't do this or that?

What does a scoffer sound like? What does a perseon who lacks faith sound like?

Perhaps God might not do everything that I want; do I do everything that He wants? But I should not like to find myself saying, "not all things are possible with God." I would then find myself clearly saying the opposite of my Lord and what is written in the Scriptures which claim to be correct.

And concerning those that say "show me", didn't Jesus say to the city of Nazarath, "No doubt you will quote this proverb to Me, 'Physician, heal yourself' (Lk 4:23) They were scoffers saying 'show me', but He told them "Truly I say to you, no prophet is welcome in his hometown..."

Yes - Jesus Christ is preached and grows up in many that are in churches today, but they turn out to be scoffers who say "show me", instead of living with a faith that says "All things are possible with God." So they say show me, instead of asking Him, to whom all things are possible, for help.

If you have a limb that needs to be grown out, or even a missing limb, start talking to Him to whom all things are possible. Ask Him if He is willing, and listen by faith.

My wife had cartiledge removed from her knee, and it was replace by God during a meeting that a Bill Johnson lead. Bill explained that God wanted to fix people's knees who had surgery to remove cartiledge. Then asked those who had that surgery to stand up, and had the people around them pray. Bill reminded the people that because the cartiledge was no longer there, that the people praying need to pray for a 'creative miracle', not healing.

God is the Creator, and Bill Johnson understood that and believed that. I saw a great miracle happen in my wife that day because of his belief. It was a creative miracle, not a healing. And I thank God that He is the Creator, and for the people who prayed and believed like Bill Johnson (the guest speaker) for a creative miracle.

I post on the Charismatic portion of this sight, because I like those who believe for more, not less. I like the discusions about God on this sight. A person might learn the difference between a creative miracle and a healing miracle. Yet I don't like hearing people scoff at God. I can love the people, but not the scoffing. All things are possible with God!!! Believe it~~

Ps My Lord wanted me to add that; "act of faith and show me, - do not belong next to each other!"

hate to interrupt you here, but we can't omit the suffering verses in the text. The text has exemption clauses in it for "all things possible".

K2K · Dec 3, 2012

"All thing possible" does not mean that He will do all things! Just that He can! He could remove all suffering right now, but perhaps He has a plan that does not include removing all suffering right now.

Alive_Again · Dec 3, 2012

With all of the opinions (or even judgments) of self and those delivered by the church as to why people's healing have not yet manifested, I am reminded of the push the woman with the issue of blood had.

Legally, she could not even go near anyone because she was unclean. Whoever she touched would be unclean too. She had to make her way through the press of everyone else trying to get to Him. She couldn't even presume to get His attention. There were too many others in the way, she was a woman, and she considered her own unclean state.

Yet, she pursued her faith. Our example is that she first heard of Jesus. She had to hear this in the heart and anything that clears up our gardens to receive the seed of the Word, make for growing conditions that promote healing. Whether we try and receive it like this woman, or whether we reach out when "He comes by" with the healing anointing in a church meeting, or in your home. You have to hear and believe in who He is. God gives you space, kind of a platform to receive, conditions in your heart to fulfill and a space for you to identify what YOU desire and come forth to get it.

"If I may touch the hem of His garment". She saw with the eye of faith and stated her claim. You'll have to make your way past (even) the church. Why wouldn't any one else care to press into toward Him unless they believed. But God can make a way through when there seems to be no way.

Rather than condemning others (telling them to dare to believe and have faith is NOT condemning anyone, it's preaching to dare to hope), we can preach the things that make for relationship. Someone has to dare to preach healing, even though a room full of people who only have hope, seek to obtain and promise and fail (because it isn't by hope that we obtain). We wait in hope for the fulfillment, but we MUST have faith.

I think if God tells you to tell someone about Him, this can go a LONG way toward you getting your healing than just reading a book about healing. It's important, but walking after the promptings in your heart will build faith more than anything (because this is what you're hearing). I think God has already told us to keep His Word in front of us day and night. If we don't do that, we know of one area to overcome already.

We have to have faith that forgets the legalities of the situation, everyone else in our way, and reach forth through every obstacle and obtain like our life depends on it. Sometimes it takes that very situation to get us to reach forth.

K2K · Dec 3, 2012

Yes indeed "You have to hear and believe in who He is."

If you hear, don't you understand that He has a time, and even if you are unclean.

JimB · Dec 3, 2012

K2K said:
The Scriptures explained clearly that all things are possible with God!!

Do we believe that!!

The Scriptures also show that we tend to be men of little faith. Can we accept that and work on it?

The Scriptures also have much to say against scoffers. Can we look at ourselves to see if the log is in our own eye?

If someone says they believe in the Bible and their preaching is based upon it, then turn around and say that somethings are not possible with God, are they indeed preaching the Jesus Christ in the Bible? No.

If someone says I won't believe it until it see it; is that a man living by faith?

I have seen God do incredible things in my life, which people will not believe even though I testify to them. And it is written that if all the things Jesus did (and that even in the short time He had on earth) were written down, perhaps the whole earth could not contain them.

I met a man that prayed for a nostril for a girl that had been born with only one nostril, and instantly the girl got another nostril. And I have seen and have heard many tell me about limbs growing longer. So knowing that we are men, not God or even angels and do not have their type of faith, and we men have still seen limbs grow, how is it someone can think that a God to whom all things are possible can't grow out an entire limb?

Jesus told those in Nazareth (people He grew up with) that He couldn't do great miracles there because of their disbelief. So what do we say about our belief when we say God can't do this or that?

What does a scoffer sound like? What does a perseon who lacks faith sound like?

Perhaps God might not do everything that I want; do I do everything that He wants? But I should not like to find myself saying, "not all things are possible with God." I would then find myself clearly saying the opposite of my Lord and what is written in the Scriptures which claim to be correct.

And concerning those that say "show me", didn't Jesus say to the city of Nazarath, "No doubt you will quote this proverb to Me, 'Physician, heal yourself' (Lk 4:23) They were scoffers saying 'show me', but He told them "Truly I say to you, no prophet is welcome in his hometown..."

Yes - Jesus Christ is preached and grows up in many that are in churches today, but they turn out to be scoffers who say "show me", instead of living with a faith that says "All things are possible with God." So they say show me, instead of asking Him, to whom all things are possible, for help.

If you have a limb that needs to be grown out, or even a missing limb, start talking to Him to whom all things are possible. Ask Him if He is willing, and listen by faith.

My wife had cartiledge removed from her knee, and it was replace by God during a meeting that a Bill Johnson lead. Bill explained that God wanted to fix people's knees who had surgery to remove cartiledge. Then asked those who had that surgery to stand up, and had the people around them pray. Bill reminded the people that because the cartiledge was no longer there, that the people praying need to pray for a 'creative miracle', not healing.

God is the Creator, and Bill Johnson understood that and believed that. I saw a great miracle happen in my wife that day because of his belief. It was a creative miracle, not a healing. And I thank God that He is the Creator, and for the people who prayed and believed like Bill Johnson (the guest speaker) for a creative miracle.

I post on the Charismatic portion of this sight, because I like those who believe for more, not less. I like the discusions about God on this sight. A person might learn the difference between a creative miracle and a healing miracle. Yet I don't like hearing people scoff at God. I can love the people, but not the scoffing. All things are possible with God!!! Believe it~~

Ps My Lord wanted me to add that; "act of faith and show me, - do not belong next to each other!"

Of course, I believe that all things are possible, as long as they are "according to his will" (1 John 5.14; Eph. 1.11). That does not mean I can sprout wings and fly just by asking to do so, no matter how hard I believe I can, or change myself from a man to a woman because God did not create me to have wings and fly or to be a woman. That is not his will for me. I still say, if you can believe you can sprout wings and fly or move literal mountain ranges from one place to another by just believing you can do it, then do it, for crying out loud, and don’t waste your time lecturing me on how it is “possible.” If it’s the Word it will work; if it don’t work, it ain't the Word, no matter how much you “believe” it is. That’s so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it. “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. … Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works” (James 2.17-18). So, yes, in this instance, you can count me in the “show me crowd.”

JimB · Dec 3, 2012

Alive_Again said:
It is a sobering thought to consider our actions or inactions have consequences and those consequences cost us something. In his case, it cost him 1% use of his arm. No pain, but just a reminder.

It is reasonable to assume that many do not give heed to the word in their lives (for them in their hearts) and years go by and they pay a much higher price. These are no doubt the secret things that belong unto the Lord that He spoke to Hagin at times.

It's also a lesson though that if we repent, He WILL heal us of our infirmities.

If you say so. But some here would like an unambiguous scripture or two to back up what you say. They do not place much value in experiences.

Alive_Again · Dec 3, 2012

I understand what you're saying, but in this case, as is in the case in many testimonies, you have to bear witness to it in the Spirit.

Mary ran to the disciples and told them Jesus had risen! The 11 were the first unbelievers. Sometimes (maybe always!) we're accountable to have listening ears when a testimony is given. They were of the "show me" crowd too. Jesus told them what was going to happen to them, but they were unable to understand really what happened.

I want to believe as well when I am seeking understanding. I'm sure I have walked by many a testimony on some things and did not receive it.

I so often hear the Lord from Hagin's testimonies of his vast experience. The Spirit of God many times really makes it alive. I've heard the Lord so many times before in His preaching, it kind of paved the way for my natural man to get out of the way.

In this case, I had a similar experience myself. The warning was much sharper and the warning and the event took place on the same day, yet I was the one saddened by not having my hand (as a guitarist in the music ministry).

Greater signs and wonders are yet to come, but we would be wise to hear them in the spirit when some of the many testimonies go forth, because they are real.

JimB · Dec 3, 2012

Alive_Again said:
I understand what you're saying, but in this case, as is in the case in many testimonies, you have to bear witness to it in the Spirit.

Mary ran to the disciples and told them Jesus had risen! The 11 were the first unbelievers. Sometimes (maybe always!) we're accountable to have listening ears when a testimony is given. They were of the "show me" crowd too. Jesus told them what was going to happen to them, but they were unable to understand really what happened.

I want to believe as well when I am seeking understanding. I'm sure I have walked by many a testimony on some things and did not receive it.

I so often hear the Lord from Hagin's testimonies of his vast experience. The Spirit of God many times really makes it alive. I've heard the Lord so many times before in His preaching, it kind of paved the way for my natural man to get out of the way.

In this case, I had a similar experience myself. The warning was much sharper and the warning and the event took place on the same day, yet I was the one saddened by not having my hand (as a guitarist in the music ministry).

Greater signs and wonders are yet to come, but we would be wise to hear them in the spirit when some of the many testimonies go forth, because they are real.

Thanx for your gracious response. Actually, I do believe some healings are partial, but a miracle healing (like the ones we read about in the Bible), were all complete and instant. Not all healings are miraculous because God heals in many ways. All healing is divine, IMO, whether it comes from medical attention, medication, therapy, diet, environment, etc., etc.James 1.17 says that every good and perfect gift comes down from above, from the Father of lights. But a miracle healing is different, IMO, and would not be something done halfway. But, if you can show me otherwise (from scripture, please), I will stand corrected.

K2K · Dec 3, 2012

JimB said:
Of course, I believe that all things are possible, as long as they are "according to his will" (1 John 5.14; Eph. 1.11). That does not mean I can sprout wings and fly just by asking to do so, no matter how hard I believe I can, or change myself from a man to a woman because God did not create me to have wings and fly or to be a woman. That is not his will for me. I still say, if you can believe you can sprout wings and fly or move literal mountain ranges from one place to another by just believing you can do it, then do it, for crying out loud, and dont waste your time lecturing me on how it is possible. If its the Word it will work; if it dont work, it ain't the Word, no matter how much you believe it is. Thats so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it. Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works (James 2.17-18). So, yes, in this instance, you can count me in the show me crowd.

There are two things misunderstood above.

First is that our faith in not in ourselves but it God. So proposing that asking God for wings means that I just get them is not expressing faith in God, but myself.

Still, not believing that God can and might give them to me if I asked, is expressing a disbelief in God. And a person thinking that God wouldn't or couldn't I have me sprout wings because I asks is expressing a disbelief in God!! So what is written above?

"That does not mean I can sprout wings and fly just by asking to do so"

I'm sorry, but having faith in God does mean I can sprout wings and fly just by asking, but it might not mean that I will.

And that is the problem!! People say they believe in God, but then tell others what God can and can not do, or what God will or will not do, yet they do not know God's mind, nor do they really believe all things are possible with God like they say.

As for James, you missed an important part of that verse.

James 2:18 But someone way well say, "You have faith and I have works, show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

James is addressing those that are doing works, but not because they actually believe that God is. People like that tend to say, "show me" because they don't believe. Those people have works, but are not actually doing what the Lord tells them. Doing what God tells you, are works of faith, and those doing works of faith know that He regularly backs up what He told you to do with miracles.

So one person tells others about Jesus Christ and say that He won't to this or can't do that. Yet the other, because they have been doing works of faith and seeing the incredible things that the Lord does, won't say such a thing because they have seen so many things that they never figured could or would happen.

So you can tell me that if I ask God for wings it does mean that I can get them, but I am telling you that because of what I have seen, that if I do ask Him for wings He might actually give them to me. Like Paul, I know a man taken up into the heavens, whether in the body or flesh I do not know, but what do you think that man saw there? Were there not angels, and what did they have?

Always in His Presence · Dec 3, 2012

FoundInGrace said:
yes sometimes I believe it is definitely God's will that some remain in illnesses.

In John 9:1-3 Jesus answers this I believe:

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

The blind man was blind not because of sin but so that the Glory of God would be shown in his life.

Did you read the next few verses?

John 9:4 I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” 6 When He had said these things, He spat on the ground and made clay with the saliva; and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. 7 And He said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which is translated, Sent). So he went and washed, and came back seeing.

Yes Jesus answered it - and the answer left the man healed, not still waiting.

You can't support your position without removing the following verses.

Always in His Presence · Dec 3, 2012

If remaining in sickness is God's will, can someone, anyone show one scripture where Jesus demonstrated the will of God by saying wait or no to someone asking Him for healing.

Of course you can't, because it's not there.

It is a huge false teaching that is prevalent on CF and in several sects today.

To prove the sickness is God's will false doctrine you have to add something to scripture, take something from scripture or guess at what was happening (silence).

None of which is valid, nor good theology.

Be honest enough to understand and say it - there is NO clear and unambiguous scripture showing Jesus ever said no, or wait, or it's not God's will to heal anyone who asked.

Remember when Jesus taught the disciples how to pray?

Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.

Jesus, in His own Words praying that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus came to earth and demonstrated God's will continuously. Not one time Did Jesus say no, or wait or it's not my will.

Faith says - if God said it, it's God

Pragmatism says - if I can get it to work, it's God.

That's the difference.

Always in His Presence · Dec 3, 2012

JimB said:
. And, yes, for reasons I have discussed more time than I care to repeat, Pauls thorn in the flesh was an infirmityhe said so four times in 2 Cor. 11.30-12.10and an infirmity for anyone who has a concordance, is NT language for an illness or physical disability.

Just sayin' (since you brought it up).

Really? let's do that.

But first, let's look at the verses in 2 Cor 11 you conveniently left out.

22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?I speak as a foolI am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?

Those my friend, are Paul's infirmities - he describes them quite specifically. You will notice that there is NO mention of sickness or disease. None, not one.

Now finish where you started:

2 Cor 11:30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity. (described in the preceding verses)31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 In Damascus the governor, under Aretas the king, was guarding the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desiring to arrest me; 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped from his hands.

12 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years agowhether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knowssuch a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a manwhether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. 6 For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christs sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

That's pretty easy to see, there is no mention of sickness before or after the mention of the 'thorn in the flesh'.

So there is no connection in these verses between infirmity and sickness, but there is a connection between infirmity and weakness.

Maybe that is why not every version uses the word infirmity.

As an example: 2 cor 11:30

ASV :30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things that concern my weakness.

CEV: 30 If I have to brag, I will brag about how weak I am.

Holman: 30 If boasting is necessary, I will boast about my weaknesses.

NASB: 30 If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness.

NCV: 30 If I must brag, I will brag about the things that show I am weak.

NIV 30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.

NLV: 30 If I must talk about myself, I will do it about the things that show how weak I am.

NLT: 30 If I must boast, I would rather boast about the things that show how weak I am.

NRSV: 30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.

Not one version uses sickness.

Sorry J it just doesn't hold water.

Christophercbm · Dec 3, 2012

There are also those who believe that Paul had poor eyesight that he was never healed of, and that's the reason he wrote in large letters.

Gal 4:15 What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.

Gal 6:11 Look at what large letters I use as I write to you in my own handwriting.

Alive_Again · Dec 3, 2012

That would seem true. Hagin was in the hospital and it did not say that he threw off his cast even though the Lord Jesus appeared to him in the hospital!

He had a greatly accelerated "healing" (not a miracle). Mine wasn't either.

We might also learn from Hagin that you won't receive a reward (miracle) for disobedience. In the discussion as to while certain people are standing for God to restore and it takes time (possibly outwardly going either or both ways during the progression of time). If the enemy would come to steal even our healing (progressive healing), then along the way we still have to stand.

The enemy has stolen many miracles by faking symptons. Of course if you had a new arm, that would be harder to steal, because you saw it with your natural eye.

It is all the more important to be hearing from the Spirit of God when you have a great need. If God seems to get quiet (when He wasn't) and you're in trouble, and you do to do what you know to do, and things STILL don't change, then I would call it a repentance issue.

Living in the Light · Dec 3, 2012

ByronArn said:
Many use the example of the thorn in Paul's side as Scriptural proof that sometimes its God's will that Christians remain with chronic illnesses. My view is that the thorn in his side was a demonic being tormenting Paul because of the phrase "messenger (same Greek word meaning angel) of Satan" used in the text. People remain in illness because they do not ask in faith for healing. In the Bible, we don't see people remaining in illness, but rather healed!

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

No, I do not believe that it is God's will for anyone to remain in illness. I think it's important to understand the difference between a healing and a miracle. Miracles are rare, but such things as growing a new limb or raising of the dead are, indeed, possible.

Healings are common and occur when holy, divine thinking takes root in a person's mind. In other words, weeding out the negative, impure, malicious thoughts that all of us have participated in. Pure thinking focused on love, compassion, and harmony with everyone is a fertile environment in our minds with which a healing will occur. I believe certain diseases such as schizophenia/mental illness, cancer, heart disease, and many others good candidates for a Divine Healing. Prayer is very valuable, but we must also do our part in healthy living, healthy thinking, and proper use of physicians. Healings occur best with a multi-faceted approach.

Do I believe that sickness and disease are punishments from God? No, because we have done it to ourselves. Call it karma, sowing and reaping, or what goes around, comes around if you wish, but we have done it. God will help us become whole. Change or repentance must occur to initiate the healing.

K2K · Dec 3, 2012

I believe it is God will that we talk to Him and listen to what He has to say.

He sent His Son, knowing that His Son would wind up at the cross. I can't say that He wanted His Son to suffer, but under the circumstance He made a decision that envolved the sacrifice of His Son.

So I can't say that it is God's will that anybody suffer, but under the circumstances, it might be just the things needed.

It is written "With their ears they barely hear and with their eyes they don't see, otherwise they would turn back to Me and I would heal them." And a further study into this verse finds that it was fist told to a prophet in regard to speaking to the people in such a way as to keep them from hearing, seeing, and understanding. That apparently because they were rebellious people. So He might leave people in need of healing so that they first repent of their ways.

Frogster · Dec 3, 2012

Simply Put said:
If remaining in sickness is God's will, can someone, anyone show one scripture where Jesus demonstrated the will of God by saying wait or no to someone asking Him for healing.

Of course you can't, because it's not there.

It is a huge false teaching that is prevalent on CF and in several sects today.

To prove the sickness is God's will false doctrine you have to add something to scripture, take something from scripture or guess at what was happening (silence).

None of which is valid, nor good theology.

Be honest enough to understand and say it - there is NO clear and unambiguous scripture showing Jesus ever said no, or wait, or it's not God's will to heal anyone who asked.

Remember when Jesus taught the disciples how to pray?

Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.[/INDENT]

Jesus, in His own Words praying that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus came to earth and demonstrated God's will continuously. Not one time Did Jesus say no, or wait or it's not my will.

Faith says - if God said it, it's God

Pragmatism says - if I can get it to work, it's God.

That's the difference.

"On earth, as it is in heaven", can be used a hyper eschatology teaching, there are too many suffering verses that show that not to be what Jesus meant.

Jesus himself learned obedience, by what he suffered, and peter said we walk in those steps in 1 Peter 2:21.

Is Remaining in Illness God's Will?

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