Is putting your baby up for adoption a sin, or at least against what God would want?

[GodLovesCats]

this is the tricky part in the abortion debate, it's always centered around woman's right and the unborn's personhood, but nobody ever mentions the father. But think about it, from the father's perspective, if the woman chooses life, he would be tied to the child and forced to pay child support for the next 18 years; if he's married and already has a family and a reputation, then such infidelity could cost him everything, it could ruin his whole life; if she chooses abortion, however, then it ends quietly in the hollow tube, there's zero consequence or responsibility, he doesn't even have to know because it's "a medical decision between the woman and her doctor," and it encourages and emboldens him to continue sleeping around. So what would you choose in this situation? The answer is quite obvious.

It has absolutely nothing to do with ending personhood. Only the pregnant woman is a person. It is ending a human life that had the potential to become a person.

Men often say abortion should be illegal because that right gives women a choice to not take responsibility for future children, unlike the paternity fees forced on them for the next 18 years if she chooses to give birth. They totally ignore the fact that the man benefits from a life he fathered is a good thing for him. Men often kill pregnant woman specifically to avoid paying paternity fees and getting involved with child care for the next 18 years. Abortion opponents should be asking why they think it is always the mother's fault if the unborn human life is killed and if as the biological father, they would want to take responsibility for the woman's choice to end or continue her pregnancy.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It has absolutely nothing to do with ending personhood. Only the pregnant woman is a person. It is ending a human life that had the potential to become a person.

Men often say abortion should be illegal because that right gives women a choice to not take responsibility for future children, unlike the paternity fees forced on them for the next 18 years if she chooses to give birth. They totally ignore the fact that the man benefits from a life he fathered is a good thing for him. Men often kill pregnant woman specifically to avoid paying paternity fees and getting involved with child care for the next 18 years. Abortion opponents should be asking why they think it is always the mother's fault if the unborn human life is killed and if as the biological father, they would want to take responsibility for the woman's choice to end or continue her pregnancy.

“Men often kill pregnant women?” That’s too much of an exaggeration. If they seek to avoid the consequences, they just run away without goodbye. You’ve watched too many Lifetime dramas.

 

[GodLovesCats]

“Men often kill pregnant women?” That’s too much of an exaggeration. If they seek to avoid the consequences, they just run away without goodbye. You’ve watched too many Lifetime dramas.

If you don't believe that, it is your choice to be ignorant for the sake of having an anti-liberal agenda. I never watched a lifetime drama in my life. It is what happens in the real world.

 

[RDKirk]

If you don't believe that, it is your choice to be ignorant for the sake of having an anti-liberal agenda. I never watched a lifetime drama in my life. It is what happens in the real world.

I'd like to see some statistics on that particular crime in America. And I'd be interested to see how they determined that the women were killed specifically because they were pregnant.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I'd like to see some statistics on that particular crime in America. And I'd be interested to see how they determined that the women were killed specifically because they were pregnant.

You will have to wait a while because I have football games to watch.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

If you don't believe that, it is your choice to be ignorant for the sake of having an anti-liberal agenda. I never watched a lifetime drama in my life. It is what happens in the real world.

I would've believed you if you toned down your rhetoric and presented some reasonable argument instead of "killing pregnant women". This is not witch hunting or holocaust we're talking about.

 

[Michie]

Homicide is a leading cause of death in pregnant women in the US | BMJ

Women in the US are more likely to be murdered during pregnancy or soon after childbirth than to die from the three leading obstetric causes of maternal death.

www.bmj.com

Maternal Mortality: Homicide is a Top Cause of Death During Pregnancy

A new editorial in The BMJ is sharing a stark warning about the risk of violence facing pregnant people in the United States.

www.healthline.com

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Homicide is a leading cause of death in pregnant women in the US | BMJ

Women in the US are more likely to be murdered during pregnancy or soon after childbirth than to die from the three leading obstetric causes of maternal death.

www.bmj.com

Maternal Mortality: Homicide is a Top Cause of Death During Pregnancy

A new editorial in The BMJ is sharing a stark warning about the risk of violence facing pregnant people in the United States.

www.healthline.com

This looks like just another hit piece under the narrative of "all men are pigs". Plain old fearmongering and hatemongering. Even if this is true, is there any evidence showing that terminating a normal pregnancy is an effective solution to save the woman and deter murder? And what message does it send to women? That you have to abort your own flesh and blood to appease your violent abusive partner?

 

[comana]

This looks like just another hit piece under the narrative of "all men are pigs". Plain old fearmongering and hatemongering. Even if this is true, is there any evidence showing that terminating a normal pregnancy is an effective solution to save the woman and deter murder? And what message does it send to women? That you have to abort your own flesh and blood to appease your violent abusive partner?

Instead of assuming what the articles are saying, why not read them.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Instead of assuming what the articles are saying, why not read them.

I did, no such evidence. Just fear mongering. Don’t you get depressed reading such stuffs?

 

[comana]

I did, no such evidence. Just fear mongering. Don’t you get depressed reading such stuffs?

It wasn’t fear mongering. It is fact, reality. It is depressing but it is a real problem.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It wasn’t fear mongering. It is fact, reality. It is depressing but it is a real problem.

In this day of age, research is mostly me-search, information is mostly affirmation, the almighty algorithm only shows what you wanna see, which is not necessarily the fact. Unless you've seen it with your own eyes or you know somebody who has personally experienced such atrocity, it's all just hearsay.

 

[comana]

In this day of age, research is mostly me-search, information is mostly affirmation, the almighty algorithm only shows what you wanna see, which is not necessarily the fact. Unless you've seen it with your own eyes or you know somebody who has personally experienced such atrocity, it's all just hearsay.

Medical journals are not reliable? I do personally know multiple women threatened in pregnancy by their partner. Keep you head in the sand I guess.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Medical journals are not reliable? I do personally know multiple women threatened in pregnancy by their partner. Keep you head in the sand I guess.

I didn't question that source's credibility. I questioned this article's revelance to abortion - or adoption. What the article says is one thing, what conclusion you draw from it is another.

 

[comana]

I didn't question that source's credibility. I questioned this article's revelance to abortion - or adoption. What the article says is one thing, what conclusion you draw from it is another.

The Conclusion that “ all men are pigs” from your interpretation is the problem. The article at no point portrayed that, yet you went that route. Women in danger from a partner need help. Currently, and even 50 years ago, abortion is perceived as the safest option. To steer women in these situations towards adoption or keeping the baby, this danger needs to be addressed. The danger is primarily from men.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The danger is primarily from men.

So you did draw the conclusion that "all men are pigs", didn't you? And how exactly could abortion save the woman from such dangerous men? Why should woman terminate her pregnancy to appease instead of fighting back, running away or reporting him to the police? Nowhere in that article recommends or implies abortion, you did. It has been reported that some of such abusive partners who personally dragged the pregnant women into abortion clinics, is that still a "safe option"?

 

[RDKirk]

Homicide is a leading cause of death in pregnant women in the US | BMJ

Women in the US are more likely to be murdered during pregnancy or soon after childbirth than to die from the three leading obstetric causes of maternal death.

www.bmj.com

Maternal Mortality: Homicide is a Top Cause of Death During Pregnancy

A new editorial in The BMJ is sharing a stark warning about the risk of violence facing pregnant people in the United States.

www.healthline.com

Both of those articles were based on the same BMJ article ("Internet Lens Effect" in effect).

That article asserted:

Women in the US are more likely to be murdered during pregnancy or soon after childbirth than to die from the three leading obstetric causes of maternal death (high blood pressure disorders, hemorrhage, or sepsis), say experts in The BMJ today.

The article says homicide is a more likely cause of death than three specific obstetric causes.

It is written to imply that husbands are the greatest threat to women who have borne children, and thus it's better to be an unwed mother than a married mother.

It doesn't compare homicide to any other causes than those three, so it says nothing about the rate of women dying during pregnancy or soon after childbirth from any other causes.

Nor does it compare the homicide rate of women during pregnancy or soon after childbirth with the rate of women murdered during any other period of their lives or during any other activity.

 

[comana]

So you did draw the conclusion that "all men are pigs", didn't you? And how exactly could abortion save the woman from such dangerous men? Why should woman terminate her pregnancy to appease instead of fighting back, running away or reporting him to the police? Nowhere in that article recommends or implies abortion, you did.

That is not my conclusion. Some men are very dangerous. I did not recommend abortion. However, abusive relationships are very hard to leave and abortion allows women to escape and not be tied to a violent, manipulative man because she bore his child. Police are often no help. Multiple calls and the police leave the man to continue to abuse. She is too scared to tell the full truth. Not understanding domestic abuse often leads to blaming women for desperate decisions. I wish and hope for more available options for these women.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

That is not my conclusion. Some men are very dangerous. I did not recommend abortion. However, abusive relationships are very hard to leave and abortion allows women to escape and not be tied to a violent, manipulative man because she bore his child.

You're clearly contradicting yourself. You are certainly recommending abortion.

 

[comana]

You're clearly contradicting yourself. You are certainly recommending abortion.

I’m stating a truth. Not recommending.