• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is Orthodoxy the quickest path to atheism?

Brushstroke

Veteran
Feb 12, 2006
2,641
105
USA
✟25,806.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I made a thread recently to say hello to everyone in here. I used to frequent this forum for quite awhile back around 2007, 2008 and the early part of 2009. I was a member of the Church at the time. I now no longer consider myself a member.

The reasons why I came to Orthodoxy are very broad. Mainly it was the historical implications of the Orthodox Church from my reading of the early church fathers and the "mystical" aspects of the Orthodox faith as compared to other Christian traditions. Also included would be its therapeutic form of spirituality (again, when compared to other Christian traditions) and its emphasis on personal responsibility not only in your ethics and morality but even in your spiritual life. I've noticed these reasons are pretty consistent across the board for a lot of converts.

Now I consider myself an atheist and a secular humanist. You do more studying into history and philosophy as that intellectual attitude demands of you, you start exploring other forms of spirituality, you start looking at the moral concerns of the Church and how they match up with the morals and ethics in the modern world...and Christianity kind of loses its luster. At least it has for me. It's not to say that I now hate God or hate the Church. I don't believe in God so I can't hate him. As for the Church, I think it's a very respectable institution that's done a lot of good for the world as well as a lot of bad. In a lot of ways I consider myself a "faithful atheist." I'm still respecting of what I've come from, but I can't for the life of me believe in it any more. You might consider it similar to how a lot of Jews are atheists but still practice Judaism.

I'm just wondering if Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans and other people from the "historic" branches of Christianity seem to lose faith more so than our Protestant/evangelical friends? That's the impression I get. Have any of you shared my thoughts?
 

Coralie

but behold, there cometh one after me
Sep 29, 2009
1,220
213
✟24,857.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
As a Westerner, the more educated you [general you] are in a secular sense, the more you've immersed yourself in the hegemony of Enlightenment reductionism (whether you realise it or not). If you swallow this reductionism whole, without examining it for what it is, you tend towards atheism. Atheism is the faith choice of the reductionist.

People who are born Protestant and who are "thinkers" by nature will often (certainly not always) gravitate towards Orthodoxy, because it's the only internally coherent branch of Christianity.

If these "thinkers" keep "thinking", and start mistakenly applying reductionist scientific thinking to metaphysical concerns, they may stray into atheism too. So, if you know a lot of ex-Prot converts who became Orthodox and then atheists, this is my opinion of how it happened.

FWIW, I know faaaaaaaaaar more Prot -> atheist vs. other religion -> atheist. But that may be because I know a LOT of Protestants. Actually, my husband is one who went from evangelical Xianity straight to atheism due to the abuses and illogical nonsense he saw there.

ETA: another FWIW: I was a cradle atheist who turned Christian at age 22, after completing my cultural studies degree and examining all the philosophical arguments against God. After further searching within Xianity, I was received into Orthodoxy age 25. Not all roads lead to atheism.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ikonographics
Upvote 0

Monica child of God 1

strives to live eschatologically
Feb 4, 2005
5,796
716
49
✟9,473.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I'm just wondering if Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans and other people from the "historic" branches of Christianity seem to lose faith more so than our Protestant/evangelical friends? That's the impression I get. Have any of you shared my thoughts?

I really doubt that there are statistics on this type of thing. I know of people that have lost faith or strayed off the path in both Protestantism and traditional forms of Chrisitianity.

I will say that with Orthodoxy (and in Roman Catholicism), it is acknowledged there are points at which you might not feel very spiritual or very close to God. There are times when a believer is filled with doubt. And that is considered the normal and a sign of maturing faith. When I was a Protestant and not feeling full of faith or in despair, it was called "not doing well spiritually." During times of spiritual dryness, which can last for decades (see Mother Theresa's example) we are encouraged to continue with the prayers, the Mysteries and with good works. This is a type mature faith: walking the path when you cannot see and cannot feel the presence of God.

"He removed grace from you so that you may become wise. But it will come again. It does not abandon you. This is a law of God. But it will leave again. Yet once more it will come. As long as you don't stop seeking it, it will keep coming and going until it renders you perfect." --Elder Joseph the Hesychast

M.
 
Upvote 0

Monica child of God 1

strives to live eschatologically
Feb 4, 2005
5,796
716
49
✟9,473.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
you start exploring other forms of spirituality, you start looking at the moral concerns of the Church and how they match up with the morals and ethics in the modern world...

Please say more about this.

M.
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
8,805
3,175
Pennsylvania, USA
✟942,627.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Personally, I believe that love is a reality that cannot truly manifest itself in the existence we are currently in and without God we will never know it. I believe since love is reality but cannot be properly manifestd here then we must be more than pieces of matter that somehow "evolved" and then decay into nothing. I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the faith outlined in the Nicene Creed as preserved in Orthodox Christianity as what is salvation. The church is unfortunately too often an abused & misused institution.
 
Upvote 0

E.C.

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2007
13,864
1,415
✟176,942.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I made a thread recently to say hello to everyone in here. I used to frequent this forum for quite awhile back around 2007, 2008 and the early part of 2009. I was a member of the Church at the time. I now no longer consider myself a member.

The reasons why I came to Orthodoxy are very broad. Mainly it was the historical implications of the Orthodox Church from my reading of the early church fathers and the "mystical" aspects of the Orthodox faith as compared to other Christian traditions. Also included would be its therapeutic form of spirituality (again, when compared to other Christian traditions) and its emphasis on personal responsibility not only in your ethics and morality but even in your spiritual life. I've noticed these reasons are pretty consistent across the board for a lot of converts.

Now I consider myself an atheist and a secular humanist. You do more studying into history and philosophy as that intellectual attitude demands of you, you start exploring other forms of spirituality, you start looking at the moral concerns of the Church and how they match up with the morals and ethics in the modern world...and Christianity kind of loses its luster. At least it has for me. It's not to say that I now hate God or hate the Church. I don't believe in God so I can't hate him. As for the Church, I think it's a very respectable institution that's done a lot of good for the world as well as a lot of bad. In a lot of ways I consider myself a "faithful atheist." I'm still respecting of what I've come from, but I can't for the life of me believe in it any more. You might consider it similar to how a lot of Jews are atheists but still practice Judaism.

I'm just wondering if Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans and other people from the "historic" branches of Christianity seem to lose faith more so than our Protestant/evangelical friends? That's the impression I get. Have any of you shared my thoughts?
I think that with Orthodox and Catholics going Atheist the change is a bit more sudden and dramatic than with Evangelical Christians because there is far more Truth in Orthodox and Catholicism vs. what is found in Evangelical Protestantism.

I have known many Protestants where when they became Atheist or Agnostic it took a very very long time of a steady decline in their spiritual lives until they eventually gave into either Atheism or Agnosticism. Yet, with myself when I went from Catholicism to Atheism (as well as a few other friends of mine) it was more sudden, dramatic and long lasting. Think about it: with Protestantism all you need to do with a problem is look to the Bible, pray and figure it out on your own noggin. Yet, with my departure from Catholicism it was due to more reliance on an institution which failed in my eyes due to impracticalities of having a single leader on earth vs. a collective group, and the decades long cover-up of sexual abuse by the clergy.


Just wondering: did your leaving Orthodoxy in 2009 have to do with the Antiochian problems at the time?
 
Upvote 0

MKJ

Contributor
Jul 6, 2009
12,260
776
East
✟31,394.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
My experience was that I became an Anglican Christian after I had looked into a variety of other spiritual paths, and then started to study philosophy (with no intent to discover theological truths.) So pretty much the opposite of what you describe. My parish church is pretty full of people who have had similar experiences.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,649
3,635
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟273,391.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I really doubt that there are statistics on this type of thing. I know of people that have lost faith or strayed off the path in both Protestantism and traditional forms of Chrisitianity.

I will say that with Orthodoxy (and in Roman Catholicism), it is acknowledged there are points at which you might not feel very spiritual or very close to God. There are times when a believer is filled with doubt. And that is considered the normal and a sign of maturing faith. When I was a Protestant and not feeling full of faith or in despair, it was called "not doing well spiritually." During times of spiritual dryness, which can last for decades (see Mother Theresa's example) we are encouraged to continue with the prayers, the Mysteries and with good works. This is a type mature faith: walking the path when you cannot see and cannot feel the presence of God.

"He removed grace from you so that you may become wise. But it will come again. It does not abandon you. This is a law of God. But it will leave again. Yet once more it will come. As long as you don't stop seeking it, it will keep coming and going until it renders you perfect." --Elder Joseph the Hesychast

M.
:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

musicluvr83

Regular Member
Mar 6, 2010
573
19
✟23,320.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
I really doubt that there are statistics on this type of thing. I know of people that have lost faith or strayed off the path in both Protestantism and traditional forms of Chrisitianity.

I will say that with Orthodoxy (and in Roman Catholicism), it is acknowledged there are points at which you might not feel very spiritual or very close to God. There are times when a believer is filled with doubt. And that is considered the normal and a sign of maturing faith. When I was a Protestant and not feeling full of faith or in despair, it was called "not doing well spiritually." During times of spiritual dryness, which can last for decades (see Mother Theresa's example) we are encouraged to continue with the prayers, the Mysteries and with good works. This is a type mature faith: walking the path when you cannot see and cannot feel the presence of God.

"He removed grace from you so that you may become wise. But it will come again. It does not abandon you. This is a law of God. But it will leave again. Yet once more it will come. As long as you don't stop seeking it, it will keep coming and going until it renders you perfect." --Elder Joseph the Hesychast

M.

Very true!!
 
Upvote 0

Lirenel

Orthodox Christian
Aug 17, 2006
137
10
✟22,818.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I've often struggled being a very rationalistic person and how it relates to having faith in a god, and in the Christian God in particular. Growing up Protestant I felt it was a very intellectual 'faith'. When parts of Christianity didn't mesh with science and history - like the creation/evolution debate - it really shook my faith because I couldn't reconcile faith and reason. I wanted everything to make sense rationally, but Christianity, I was finding, didn't always fit rationally, no matter how hard Thomas Aquinas tried.

I literally got to the point where I thought maybe Jesus was just a man and that Theism, if not Atheism, was more likely the truth. It terrified me, frankly. At that point, one of the only things that saved my faith was my intellectual belief that, of all the religions or non-religions in the world, I wanted Christianity to be true because I saw the world as a better place historically because of it. I told myself I would just believe in Jesus as God even if there wasn't any God to believe in (a la Puddleglum in C.S. Lewis's The Silver Chair).

Eventually I regained my faith and that was when I really started investigating ancient Christianity and came upon Orthodoxy. I was struck by the fact that there wasn't a dichotomy between faith and intellect in Orthodoxy, that you could reconcile science and history with faith (i.e. the Orthodox seemed ok with saying that parts of the Bible are maybe allegorical and not literal). There was a sense of mystery, that not everything should be explained. I see all this particularly in the Martyrdom of St. Catherine who debated and defeated the sages, but had faith enough to die for Christ.

So that is my experience. As for whether historic or evangelical churches are more likely to produce atheists, I only know the example of my own family. My dad's family were cradle Catholics. My dad went from Catholicism to lax Methodism and has grown increasingly in faith - of anyone in my family, I could see him becoming Orthodox eventually. Dad's twin brother, on the other hand, is an agnostic who liked baiting me about Christianity when I was a teenager. Their two younger brothers are occasional Protestants. In my Mom's Protestant family, my mom is a strong Christian, her older sister and her family are devout Presbyterians, her younger brother is agnostic leaning towards Christianity, and the two youngest brothers have regained the Christian faith they had drifted from when younger. Both sides of my family are very intellectual as well - going back two generations from me, only my paternal grandmother didn't attend and graduate college, and about half of my aunts and uncles have advanced degrees.

Wow, I just realized I wrote a whole lot there, so I'm going to stop now, post this, and go write one of my final papers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Philothei
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
42,322
21,000
Earth
✟1,659,997.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I'm just wondering if Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans and other people from the "historic" branches of Christianity seem to lose faith more so than our Protestant/evangelical friends? That's the impression I get. Have any of you shared my thoughts?

I would say no, most Evangelical Protestant style stuff more or less offers a quick fix. it gets you happy and singing, but does not have much spiritual depth.
 
Upvote 0

rdhosken

Newbie
Sep 10, 2008
41
8
Wisconsin, USA
✟22,711.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi Brushstroke,

There were times in my university days when I doubted the existence of God (as an evangelical then). But when I remembered my personal encounter with Christ 6-7 years earlier, which was so real I can still see Christ in my mind's eye 50 years later, it suddenly became clear to me that I should rather doubt my own existence than the existence of God. About 2 years ago this month, my wife and I became Orthodox.

I could give several rational arguments for the existence of God (I got A's in honors philosophy), but the real proof is existential and experiential.

Dr. Robert Hosken
Discover-Original-Christianity.info
 
Upvote 0

Mytheodos

Regular Member
Oct 9, 2006
848
178
✟24,289.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I would say the quickest path to atheism is PRIDE.




The Silence of a Monastic Confounds Philosophers


Some philosophers once visited an elder, and after he had offered a prayer he remained silent, braiding cord and paying no attention to them.

They besought him, saying: "Say something to us, father", but he held his peace. They said to him: "This is what we came for: to hear you say something and to benefit from it."


The elder said to them: "You spend your money to learn how to speak. I left the world to learn how to keep silent."


They were filled with amazement on hearing this and went their way edified.

From the "Supplimentary Tales" of The Spiritual Meadow by St. John Moschos.
 
Upvote 0