Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical teaching?

[Clare73]

No such thing as counterfeit,

See Mt 7:22-23.

 

[Abraham1st]

No, but it depends on what we understand salvation to be. If we recognize that salvation is continuing to abide in Jesus, then we may forfeit our salvation if we choose to walk away. If, on the other hand, we merely take it to be an act of divine bookkeeping, then it would seem likely that it must be true because God has predicated salvation on a confession of faith and is faithful to His promises.

Confession of faith and righteousness.


Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

 

[Abraham1st]

See Mt 7:22-23.

what for, to see what you see with your special glasses that say no such thing like you speak

 

[Abraham1st]

See Mt 7:22-23.

There came finally your quick small answer, even smaller than some as it was for me to see again what you showed already and NOTHING MORE.

 

[Abraham1st]

Now Clare if that is the best you can do, it's so convincing for all to see you have great answers to give, and that you take part in theology, in a good way, by nothing.

 

[Clare73]

Now Clare if that is the best you can do, it's so convincing for all to see you have great answers to give, and that you take part in theology, in a good way, by nothing.

Falls somewhat short of a Biblical refutation of Mt 7:22-23, which demonstrates counterfeit faith, of which you say there is no such thing.

 

[Abraham1st]

Falls somewhat short of a Biblical refutation. . .

Yes yours did, on that we agree.

Once saved is not always, I answered on that, unless you missed it, had those special glasses on and cant see what you don't want, but can see what you do want only.

 

[Abraham1st]

Also clare, if you think it is worth fighting over whether you label something counterfeit it is not, so that's your rebuttal.

 

[Abraham1st]

It is an excellent example for anyone crazy enough to come across the forums of tis world, to see they don't have very nice environments. (NO EDIFICATION.)

 

[Clare73]

Yes yours did, on that we agree.

Once saved is not always, I answered on that, unless you missed it, had those special glasses on and cant see what you don't want, but can see what you do want only.

Falls somewhat short of a Biblial refutation of the counterfeit faith presented in Mt 7:22-23 (post #121).

 

[d taylor]

It was a counterfeit faith (Mt 7:22-23), they did not, in fact, receive the life of God.

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That is not an example of counterfeit faith. Because they were not having faith, they were touting works they had done. Unless you are saying they were having faith in their works to save them.

But that has nothing to do with a person believing in Jesus and then falling away from their belief they once had.

 

[Guojing]

not there either, if you want try me for my interpreting skills

See Ephesians 1, especially Ephesians 1:13, understand what the word "sealed" means in the Greek.

 

[Dan Perez]

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That is not an example of counterfeit faith. Because they were not having faith, they were touting works they had done. Unless you are saying they were having faith in their works to save them.

But that has nothing to do with a person believing in Jesus and then falling away from their belief they once had.

Then will you believe Eph 1 :4 and reads :

Just as he CHOSE for himself in HIM BEFORE // PRO the OVERTHROW. //KATABOLE. Of the WORLD // KOSMOS for us to be

holy and without blemish before Him in love. !!

And having foreordained us for adoption as SONS through Jesus Christ to himself , according to the good pleasure of His will. .

dan p

 

[d taylor]

Then will you believe Eph 1 :4 and reads :

Just as he CHOSE for himself in HIM BEFORE // PRO the OVERTHROW. //KATABOLE. Of the WORLD // KOSMOS for us to be

holy and without blemish before Him in love. !!

And having foreordained us for adoption as SONS through Jesus Christ to himself , according to the good pleasure of His will. .

dan p

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Yes God choose that believers should be holy and blameless. But not all believers are holy and blameless

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

 

[Abraham1st]

See Ephesians 1, especially Ephesians 1:13, understand what the word "sealed" means in the Greek.

It means this in Christianity, (the preaching of the cross is foolishness to the Greeks who seek after wisdom.) the mystery of HIs will is made known to us, to gather us together as one in Him, in Him, we have obtained an inheritance, predestined that we should be to the praise and glory, who first trusted on Christ.

After we trusted, hearing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, and after we believed we were sealed with the holy spirit of promise.

The seal of the holy spirit of promise is our earnest/SINCERE CONVICTION, of our inheritance UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory.

Apostle Paul goes on to speak about how he prays for them, that God MAY GIVE UNTO YOU THE SPIRUT OF WISDOM AND REVELATION IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM., to KNOW WHAT IS THE HOPE OF HIS CALLING, RAISING CHRIST FROM THE DEAD, TO KNOW THE EXCEEDING GREATNESS TO USWARD WHO BELIEVE, AND PUT ALL THINGS UNDER IS FEET, AND GAVE HM TO BE THE HEAD OVER ALL THHINGS OF THE CHURCH, AND HE IS FAR ABOVE ALL PRINCIPALITY AND POWER AND MIGHT AND DOMINION, AND NAME THAT IS NAMED, NOT ONLY IN THIS WORLD, BUT ALSO IN THAT WHICH IS TO COME.



Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Ephesians 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[Clare73]

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That is not an example of counterfeit faith. Because they were not having faith, they were touting works they had done. Unless you are saying they were having faith in their works to save them.

Au contraire. . .that is precisely an example of counterfeit faith. . .it was a "faith" that did not save.
Read it again. . .they claimed to be doing it in Jesus' name (Mt 7:22-23), that's a statement of faith.

But that has nothing to do with a person believing in Jesus and then falling away from their belief they once had.

It has everything to do with an example of counterfeit faith which you deny. . .counterfeit faith is also the faith that falls away from the belief one once had. True saving faith does not fall away (2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14). . .only counterfeit faith falls away.

 

[Abraham1st]

that is precisely an example of counterfeit faith. . .it was a "faith" that did not save.
Read it again. . .they claimed to be doing it in Jesus' name (Mt 7:22-23), that's a statement of faith.

Yes read it again with me clare73, or anyone struggling to understand clare73.

The emphasis and purpose here are FALSE PROPHETS. (THEY OF COURSE HAVE NO FAITH WHATSOEVER AND NEVER HAD ANY.)

Jesus then goes into a lot of detail how to KNOW FALSE PROPHETS.

THE FALSE PROPHET GATHERS THORNS AND THISTLES.

THE FALSE PROPHET IS A CORRUPT TREE AND BRINGS FORTH EVIL FRUIT. ( THE EVIL/CORRUPT TREE NEVER HAD FAITH, NONE WHATSOEVER SO NEVER COULD BRING FORTH GOOD FRUIT.

WHEREBY BY THEIR FRUITS WE SHALL KNOW THEM. ( THE FALSE PROPHETS WE ARE TO BEWARE OF.)

The FALSE PROPHETS SAY LORD LORD TO JESUS, but they don't do the will of the Father, and it is MANY FALSE PROPHETS, saying to Jesus, did they not do PROPHESY, (MANY FALSE PROPHETS.) the FALSE PROPHET claims to have CAST OUT DEVILS in HIs name, the FALSE PROPHET claims to have done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS in His name. (THE FALSE PROPHET CANT DO MANY WONDERFU WORKS, THEY LIE, AND ARE LYING, BUT JESUS EMPHASISED HOW TO KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS, WHICH ARE THORNS AND THISTLES=WORKERS OF INIQUITY.)

Jesus PROFESSES to them, He NEVER KNEW THEM.

Jesus ends the chapter summing up the VERY SAME, how those who hear HIs sayings and do them are founded on a rock.

(THE FALSE PROPHETS ARE FOUNDED ON SAND, AS THEY HEAR BUT NEVER DID THEM/NEVER HAD FAITH.)

(BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS/MANY SHALL SAY UNTO ME IN THAT DAY/MANY FALSE PROPHETS SHALL RISE AND DECEIVE MANY. BECAUSE INIQUITY SHALL ABOUND THE LOVE OF MANY SHALL WAX COLD/ I SHALL PROFESS UNTO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU, DEPART FROM ME YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.)

I SHALL PROFESS UNTO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU, DEPART FROM ME YE THAT WORK INIQUITY/THEM THAT ARE DEFILED AND UNBELIEVING HAVE NOTHING PURE, THEIR MIND AND CONSCIENCE DEFILED, THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD, BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, BEING ABOMINABLE AND DISOBEDIENT AND UNTO EVERY GOOD WORK REPROBATE/YE SHALL KNOW THE FALSE PROPHETS BY THEIR FRUITS, THEY GATHER THORNS AND THISTLES/ A CORRUPT TREE BRINGS FORTH NO GOOD FRUIT.)




Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.




clare73 with the hardened stance wont see this as a biblical rebuttal, NEITHER WOULD THOSE MANY FALSE PROPHETS, but they are rebutted.



Just in case they are not, God left us further Rebuttal for them.


John tells Jesus the disciples saw one casting out devils in the name of Jesus, but he did not follow with the disciples, Jesus tells them to not forbid him from casting out devils, that THERE IS NO MAN WHICH SHALL DO A MIRACLE IN HIS NAME, THAT CAN LIGHTLY SPEAK EVIL OF JESUS. That he that is NOT AGAINST US, is FOR US/OUR PART.



Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

 

[Clare73]

Yes read it again with me clare73, or anyone struggling to understand clare73.

The emphasis and purpose here are FALSE PROPHETS. (THEY OF COURSE HAVE NO FAITH WHATSOEVER AND NEVER HAD ANY.)

Precisely. . .counterfeit faith is no faith (Mt 7:22-23), it's counterfeit, not real.

 

[Abraham1st]

It has everything to do with an example of counterfeit faith which you deny. . .counterfeit faith is also the faith that falls away from the belief one once had. True saving faith does not fall away (2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14). . .only counterfeit faith falls away.

You deny all I show you clare73, and I can correct all you are able to ever speak about, as long as the Lord gives me the answers to answer you with.


True saving faith remains true, or it does fall away, that is why both chapters you quote here speak of believing in the promises of God because BY FAITH THEY STAND.

Again we desire to be clothed upon and NOT FOUND NAKED, that is the earnest/CONVICTION of the Spirit, THAT WE WALK BY FAITH.



2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight



The gospel of our salvation, we believe, to be sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, the earnest/CONVICTIO of our inheritance, until the redemption of the purchased possession.

Apostle Paul hearing of their faith says he always prays for them that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, MAY GIVE UNTO THEM THE SPURT OF WISDOM AND REVELATION IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM, FOR THEIR EYES TO BE ENLIGHTENED.


Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints

 

[Abraham1st]

that is precisely an example of counterfeit faith. . .it was a "faith" that did not save.
Read it again. . .they claimed to be doing it in Jesus' name (Mt 7:22-23), that's a statement of faith.

That is not a statement of faith, neither was it a faith, of any sort, and it 100 PERCENT was not a faith that FALLS AWAY.


clare73 said: It has everything to do with an example of counterfeit faith which you deny. . .counterfeit faith is also the faith that falls away from the belief one once had.



They never had a faith, it therefore cant fall away. (NO BELIEF WAS ONCE OR EVER HAD BY MANY FALSE PROPHET/WORKERS OF INIQUITYUNGODLINESS/FAITHLESSNESS.)