Is Observing the 7th day Sabbath a Requirement for Salvation?

[BobRyan]

Agreed that the Decalogue is part of God's Law but, to say that "all Mankind"
shall come before the Lord to worship Him is totally impossible.

1. That statement comes from Isaiah 66:23 it is not my suggestion.
2. Isaiah 66:23 mentions this in the context of the "New Earth" which is also described in Revelation 21. The New Earth is a phrase that references the Earth after the 2nd coming of Christ, after the 1000 year millennium of Revelation 20, after the Earth is deluged in fire (as Peter states in 2 Peter 3) and then re-made new as John states in Revelation 21. At that time only the saved of mankind are alive - and all of them worship God. Pure worship not infused with error of any kind.

The reference must be to all those who belong to God's People, Israel, Judah and Gentiles

True -- all who worship the one true God.

Paul is the one who should have been condemned for releasing himself from the whole God's Law in the Decalogue

Paul states that all the decalogue is binding on all saints in Ephesians 6:2, Romans 7, Romans 8:4-9
Paul is accepted as a strict Christian Pharisee - even by his fellow non-Christian Pharisees in Acts 23:6-9

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 11.11 says why SALVATION came to Gentiles. If you are not saved, does it matter if you keep the Sabbath or not?

No it does not.

God exists outside of time and sees it all together. So anything from Isaiah on this subject can be looked at as a result of Rom 11.11.

No question that the one gospel Gal 3:6-9 -- was active in all ages.

 

[Dave-W]

No question that the one gospel Gal 3:6-9 -- was active in all ages.

You are not thinking covenantally.

 

[BobRyan]

You are not thinking covenantally.

Paul said there is only one Gospel in Gal 1:6-9, and that that one and only Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 and lists a few of the saints saved under that one Gospel in the OT - in Hebrews 11.

The NEW Covenant was working in the OT - Jeremiah 31:31-33 as the "Covenant with Israel and the house of Judah" just as in the NT - Hebrews 8:6-10 shows there is no change in it in the NT.

God's Law on the heart and mind
adoption as sons
forgiveness of sins.

Paul has this interesting conversation with his fellow Jews in Acts 23:1-9

 

[Dave-W]

The NEW Covenant was working in the OT - Jeremiah 31:31-33 as the "Covenant with Israel and the house of Judah" just as in the NT - Hebrews 8:6-10 shows there is no change in it in the NT.

Eh - the NT was not ratified before the shed blood of our Lord. While it is not changed, it was not in effect before that.

 

[jerry kelso]

Yes it does.

Also 'mankind does not live by bread alone - but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God" Matthew 4.

It just does not get any easier than this.

 

[jerry kelso]

bobryan,

1. Mark 2:27 uses the word man not mankind.

2. The subject is the Jewish sabbath in that context for the sabbath was given to man in the Jewish sabbath.

3. The sabbath made for man in connection with creation sabbath in Mark 2:27 is typical and that is what you refuse to believe so you can try to keep your false interpretation about the sabbath.

4. Matthew 4; man shall not live by bread alone is Jesus answering to the tempter.
Sinners are part of mankind so the creation has not been relevant to them and will not be until the KoH millennial reign when the world theocracy will be ruled be Christ and the saints and Israel will be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4; Isaiah 9:6-7.
The earthly civil theocratic government was, is, and will be identified with Israel according to the covenants and not the church of today which is a heavenly (spiritual) theocratic microorganism of the body of Christ.
Your whole concept of sabbath for mankind is wrong ang unscriptural. Jerry kelso

 

[BobRyan]

Eh - the NT was not ratified before the shed blood of our Lord. While it is not changed, it was not in effect before that.

It was in effect in fact it is IN the OT - Jeremiah 31:31-33.

It is the ONE gospel and there is no way of salvation for the Hebrews 11 saints apart from that ONE Gospel preached to Abraham.

"The Gospel was preached to THEM just as it was to US also" Hebrews 4:2

What is it that the ONE and only Gospel offers mankind?

God's Law on the heart and mind
adoption as sons
forgiveness of sins.

 

[BobRyan]

bobryan,

1. Mark 2:27 uses the word man not mankind.

It uses the word "mankind" and so also does Matthew 4 "mankind does not live by bread alone - but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"

The point remains.

2. The subject is the Jewish sabbath in that context for the sabbath was given to man in the Jewish sabbath.

You just made that up - as if Jews are "all mankind"

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

This is what the Word of God says - about the Sabbath MADE for MANKIND Mark 2:27

Transliteration: anthrōpos

1. generically, to include all human individuals
2. to distinguish man from beings of a different order
   1. of animals and plants
   2. of from God and Christ
   3. of the angels

When opposing this basic Greek -- it is important not to just "make stuff up" - as I think we would all agree.

3. The sabbath made for man in connection with creation Sabbath in Mark 2:27

That is the one part of your statement that is true.

It is THE Sabbath that Exodus 20:11 points to.

A Bible detail that even your own pro-Sunday scholars will admit to.

It just does not get any easier than this.

is typical and that is what you refuse to believe so you can try to keep your false interpretation about the sabbath.

Pretty funny - try selling that retort to your own pro-sunday scholars.

4. Matthew 4; man shall not live by bread alone is Jesus answering to the tempter.
Sinners are part of mankind so the creation has not been relevant to them and will not be until the KoH millennial reign when the world theocracy will be ruled be Christ and the saints and Israel will be at the head of the nations

You just made that up --- none of it mentions the millennium

in Christ,

Bob

 

[jerry kelso]

It uses the word "mankind" and so also does Matthew 4 "mankind does not live by bread alone - but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"

The point remains.



You just made that up - as if Jews are "all mankind"

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

This is what the Word of God says - about the Sabbath MADE for MANKIND Mark 2:27

Transliteration: anthrōpos

1. generically, to include all human individuals
2. to distinguish man from beings of a different order
   1. of animals and plants
   2. of from God and Christ
   3. of the angels

When opposing this basic Greek -- it is important not to just "make stuff up" - as I think we would all agree.



That is the one part of your statement that is true.

It is THE Sabbath that Exodus 20:11 points to.

A Bible detail that even your own pro-Sunday scholars will admit to.

It just does not get any easier than this.



Pretty funny - try selling that retort to your own pro-sunday scholars.



You just made that up --- none of it mentions the millennium

in Christ,

Bob

bobryan,

1. The reason your post is ignorant is because you refuse the truth and want to only prove your false belief.

2. Neither in Matthew 4 or Luke 2 uses the word man kind. You can say it means mankind but it doesn't mention the word mankind.

3. The context of Mark 2 is the Jewish sabbath for Jesus is talking to the Jews under the Mosaic law and gave reference to Abiathar and David etc. who were under the Mosaic law.

4. The only Gentiles who observed the sabbath in the Old Testament were the ones who were proselyted into Judaism.
The sinners of the Old Testament weren't under the observersance of the sabbath and never kept it and they were part of mankind.

5. Sinners today are not under the observance of the sabbath and do not keep it and they are part of mankind.

6. Isaiah 66 is future when Israel will be at the head of the nations in the millennial theocracy with Christ as the earth world ruler with the law coming out of Jerusalem.
Then all mankind will be under the theocratic government which will include keeping the sabbath.
The theocracy under the law was just for the Jews and the the second time in the millennial reign will be all the earth which will be all mankind.

7. Just because mankind will be under the sabbath doesn't mean that mankind was under the sabbath in another age for they were not. You are wrong again.

8. Creation sabbath pointing to Exodus 20:8 and Hebrews 4 we agree on, but it was typical. Obviously, you don't seem to understand what that means.
Creation sabbath was made for man as a type of rest and for this reason it was not given till after God delivered the Jews out of slavery from Egypt and it was given as a memorial and became a part of the Ten Commandments.
There is a difference being made for and given in the context of the sabbath for man.
Believers are to keep the sabbath holy and mankind will keep it in the future KoH millennial reign.
Quit posting such ignorant posts that have no scriptural basis for your wrong understanding. Jerry kelso

 

[BobRyan]

It uses the word "mankind" and so also does Matthew 4 "mankind does not live by bread alone - but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"

The point remains.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

This is what the Word of God says - about the Sabbath MADE for MANKIND Mark 2:27

Transliteration: anthrōpos

1. generically, to include all human individuals
2. to distinguish man from beings of a different order
   1. of animals and plants
   2. of from God and Christ
   3. of the angels

When opposing this basic Greek -- it is important not to just "make stuff up" - as I think we would all agree.

bobryan,

1. The reason your post is ignorant is because you refuse the truth and want to only prove your false belief.
..
Quit posting such ignorant posts that have no scriptural basis for your wrong understanding. Jerry kelso

1. You can't post like that as a Christian
2. you can't post like that on the SDA area of this board.
3. Ad hominem flaming posts like that are not a funny kind of substitute for a response to the texts I just gave you in my post.

And we all know it.

 

[jerry kelso]

1. You can't post like that as a Christian
2. you can't post like that on the SDA area of this board.
3. Ad hominem flaming posts like that are not a funny kind of substitute for a response to the texts I just gave you in my post.

And we all know it.

bobryan,

1. Can't post that like a Christian?
The Bible says to judge all spiritual things.

2. Can't post like this on a sda post? I can understand even though personally I think it inadvertently is sometimes used as more of a bashing or just stroking each other's doctrinal coat as other types of post of this format. I know this is not the only side of the coin and I take that into consideration.

3. Ad hominem flaming is more personal insults to demean a person.
I didn't do that in that post because I said your position is ignorant.
I would say in rebuttal that you said I made stuff up when I was quoting the scripture about the seventh day And showing why the separation of the seventh day and the word sabbath is used.
The Bible said man and not mankind in the KJV and you said I was making it up and that is another way of calling me a liar. Don't you think that is hypocritical?
The sda position is anyone not believing their doctrine is sinning against God's commandments and in some cases cases going to hell with the connection of the mark of the beast.
Breaking rules on a technicality versus hypocrisy? But if you want me to leave that is fine cause my motive is truth and not be inflammatory toward a Christian brother. In Christian love Jerry kelso

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 2:27 uses the word "mankind" and so also does Matthew 4 "mankind does not live by bread alone - but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"

The point remains.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

This is what the Word of God says - about the Sabbath MADE for MANKIND Mark 2:27

Transliteration: anthrōpos

1. generically, to include all human individuals
2. to distinguish man from beings of a different order
   1. of animals and plants
   2. of from God and Christ
   3. of the angels

When opposing this basic Greek -- it is important not to just "make stuff up" - as I think we would all agree.

bobryan,

1. The reason your post is ignorant is because you refuse the truth and want to only prove your false belief.
..
Quit posting such ignorant posts that have no scriptural basis for your wrong understanding. Jerry kelso

1. You can't post like that as a Christian
2. you can't post like that on the SDA area of this board.
3. Ad hominem flaming posts like that are not a funny kind of substitute for a response to the texts I just gave you in my post.

And we all know it.

bobryan,

3. Ad hominem flaming is more personal insults to demean a person.
I didn't do that in that post because I said your position is ignorant.
...
Breaking rules on a technicality versus hypocrisy? But if you want me to leave that is fine cause my motive is truth and not be inflammatory toward a Christian brother. In Christian love Jerry kelso

What I "want" from you is Christian behavior where we deal with the texts and subject and not refer to someone as "ignorant" which is pure ad hominem that makes no point at all -- and we both know it.

 

[jerry kelso]

Mark 2:27 uses the word "mankind" and so also does Matthew 4 "mankind does not live by bread alone - but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"

The point remains.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

This is what the Word of God says - about the Sabbath MADE for MANKIND Mark 2:27

Transliteration: anthrōpos

1. generically, to include all human individuals
2. to distinguish man from beings of a different order
   1. of animals and plants
   2. of from God and Christ
   3. of the angels

When opposing this basic Greek -- it is important not to just "make stuff up" - as I think we would all agree.




1. You can't post like that as a Christian
2. you can't post like that on the SDA area of this board.
3. Ad hominem flaming posts like that are not a funny kind of substitute for a response to the texts I just gave you in my post.

And we all know it.



What I "want" from you is Christian behavior where we deal with the texts and subject and not refer to someone as "ignorant" which is pure ad hominem that makes no point at all -- and we both know it.

bobryan,

1. There is nothing unchristian about saying your post is ignorant because ignorant means lack of understanding.

2. Post like what on a sda post?
Eve called me a fool but I didn't get rattled and forgave him.

3. The only reason anything I post is inflaming to you is because it proves your point of view wrong.
There is nothing funny about what I posted because I am serious about the truth.
I am not trying to save denominational face and I am not trying to legalistically send anyone to hell or make them think they are not a Christian or less a Christian for believing something different than I.
The truth only sets free if one believes it.

4. All I want from you is Christian behavior? That sounds demanding and legalistic.
Your statements show more of a personal accusatory tone than mine because you are on the offensive and you can't adequately rebut the truth I have shown from the scripture.

5. Let me ask you a question; what good is it going to do for a gentile heathen to observe the sabbath when they are not under that law, won't keep that law, or won't keep it holy and they die and go to hell?
Keeping the sabbath is not going to save their soul! Jerry kelso

 

[GrammyJ]

Keeping the Sabbath holy and honouring God is not a "necessity" or a burden no more than certain rituals I have with my wife that exhibit our love for each other.... this is the true iteration of keeping the day holy that He Sanctified and made Holy at creation. It can not be rescinded any more than the creation ordinance of marriage.
If you wouldn't mind, could you post some scriptural evidence that shows the seventh day Sabbath, a pillar of creation, was done away with or changed to sunday. Otherwise you are talking against what the Bible clearly teaches on this.... not an enviable position to be in imo.

Nowhere in scripture are we commanded to worship on any specific day or time. We are told HOW to worship (in Spirit and in Truth), but we are never told WHEN. Me? I worship Him EVERY day, but I meet with fellow born-again believers at my church on Sundays to sing His praises, to fellowship, and to be taught from God's Word. It could be any old day, as far as I'm concerned, but Sunday is the day chosen by my church. It isn't about a day, it's about the Savior!! I do not "keep" Sunday or any other day. I spend a couple of hours in church on Sundays, but the remainder of the day is just like any other - restaurants, shopping, household chores, TV, etc. There is NOTHING special or holy about Sunday, and it is NOT my "substitute sabbath."

PS: I was a 3rd-generation SDA, and studied my way out of the church over 20 years ago, praise God!

 

[Dave-W]

Nowhere in scripture are we commanded to worship on any specific day or time. We are told HOW to worship (in Spirit and in Truth), but we are never told WHEN.

Really? Do you ONLY read the New Testament?

Do you think God did away with 3/4 of the bible on the day Our Lord rose from the dead?

 

[GrammyJ]

Really? Do you ONLY read the New Testament?

Do you think God did away with 3/4 of the bible on the day Our Lord rose from the dead?

I read both, thank you! Please show us where God stated in either the OT or NT that our worship (church attendance, by SDA standards) should occur exclusively and only on Saturdays. Sabbath rest was commanded, NOT worship.

 

[Dave-W]

Please show us where God stated in either the OT or NT that our worship (church attendance, by SDA standards) should occur exclusively and only on Saturdays. Sabbath rest was commanded, NOT worship.

OK - IF you really want to go there.

1 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;

Here we are exhorted and COMMANDED to follow the example of God (Christ = God in the flesh)

And what exactly WAS that example we are to follow for going to a worship service?

Luke 4:16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read.

Our Lord's custom (and example that Paul commanded us to follow) is being in the Synagogue on Saturday. You may call it a "church building," but whatever.

WWJD?

 

[GrammyJ]

OK - IF you really want to go there.

1 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;

Here we are exhorted and COMMANDED to follow the example of God (Christ = God in the flesh)

And what exactly WAS that example we are to follow for going to a worship service?

Luke 4:16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read.

Our Lord's custom (and example that Paul commanded us to follow) is being in the Synagogue on Saturday. You may call it a "church building," but whatever.

WWJD?

Jesus was Jew, so first I need to convert to Judaism. Then, if I go to a Jewish Synagogue (which is what Jesus did!) and stand up and read, I'm good to go, right?

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus was Jew, so first I need to convert to Judaism. Then, if I go to a Jewish Synagogue (which is what Jesus did!) and stand up and read, I'm good to go, right?

Christianity was originally a sect of Judaism, so it was essentially a denomination of Judaism who followed Jesus as the Messiah of Judaism. But the issue in the early church was whether Gentiles had to become Jews order to be part of Judaism as a follower of Messiah, with the answer being that they didn't not have become Jews in order to become part of Judaism. Being a follower of Messiah means that we seek to follow his teachings and his example, However, doing that is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too.