Is not honoring the sabbath a sin?

[Lion King]

Good, honest ones

Like which ones?

 

[SilverBlade]

Messiah did correct him. At the end of your quote, He commanded "follow me". Do you think this just means to follow Him wherever He wandered in Israel? Or, does this mean "do what I do"? Did Messiah honor the Sabbath?

Jesus did say 'Follow me', but, if the sabbath was important enough, would Jesus not say to the rich man "did you also honor the sabbath as well?" He didn't. No direct mention of it. The rich man didn't mention it either. What does that say? It was 'assumed'? or that it's not really that important after all?

 

[SayaOtonashi]

Acts 20:7 Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων συνηγμένων τῶν μαθητῶν τοῦ κλάσαι ἄρτον ὁ Παῦλος διελέγετο αὐτοῖς μέλλων ἐξιέναι τῇ ἐπαύριον παρέτεινέν τε τὸν λόγον μέχρι μεσονυκτίου - "and upon one of the sabbaths, the disciples came together to break bread ..."

One small problem Jesus healed on the sabbath and worked and you do know that the sabbath is one of many laws on Jews must keep right? so if your arguing for sabbath your arguing we keep all the laws.

 

[ananda]

Like which ones?

Among others, we have the following which agrees with my translation: Bishop's Bible, Great Bible, Coverdale's, Concordant version, Emphatic Diaglott, Godbey's, Julia Smith's, exeGeses Companion Bible, Jonathan Mitchell's, Worrell's, MKJV, EJ2000, etc.

 

[ananda]

Jesus and His disciples picked grain on Sabbath (Mark 2:23). Is that not considered as working?

No.

To my knowledge, the Tanak defines "work" as things done during customary employment or earning wages of some sort, and carrying a burden.

Neither Messiah nor His disciples thus engaged in any work while picking grain to eat on Sabbath.

 

[ananda]

Jesus did say 'Follow me', but, if the sabbath was important enough, would Jesus not say to the rich man "did you also honor the sabbath as well?" He didn't. No direct mention of it. The rich man didn't mention it either. What does that say? It was 'assumed'? or that it's not really that important after all?

He didn't need to mention it directly. It is all included in "follow Me".

Messiah did not mention "worship YHVH only, and do not make idols" either in the passage you quoted. Perhaps those commandments are not really that important after all?

Right?

 

[ananda]

One small problem Jesus healed on the sabbath and worked and you do know that the sabbath is one of many laws on Jews must keep right? so if your arguing for sabbath your arguing we keep all the laws.

No, I believe that is your man-made definition of "work"; thus, you see a problem (just like the Pharisees' problem - Messiah worked according to their definition).

Healing, for Messiah, was neither a burden for Messiah nor His customary employment. It was also an act of compassion and love, which is always allowed.

 

[Lion King]

No.

To my knowledge, the Tanak defines "work" as things done during customary employment or earning wages of some sort, and carrying a burden.

Neither Messiah nor His disciples thus engaged in any work while picking grain to eat on Sabbath.

Jesus said both He and the Father work on Sabbath (John 5:17-18).

Or haven't you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? Matthew 12:5

If anyone works on Sabbath to feed themselves or their family, how are they guilty of violating the Sabbath?

Among others, we have the following which agrees with my translation: Bishop's Bible, Great Bible, Coverdale's, Concordant version, Emphatic Diaglott, Godbey's, Julia Smith's, exeGeses Companion Bible, Jonathan Mitchell's, Worrell's, MKJV, EJ2000, etc.

First time im hearing about them.

 

[ananda]

Jesus said both He and the Father work on Sabbath (John 5:17-18).

Or haven't you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? Matthew 12:5

If anyone works on Sabbath to feed themselves or their family, how are they guilty of violating the Sabbath?

All Jn 5:17 says is that both Messiah and His Father work, not that they work on Sabbath.

As for Mt 12:5, all that goes to show is that there are different priorities in keeping the commandments - ministering and serving YHVH is more important than resting.

First time im hearing about them.

It is my opinion that the mainstream translations are their translators are bound by centuries of church tradition to translate that verse and similar verses "first day of the week". This is one interpretation of the literal "mia ton sabbaton" - "one of the sabbaths", and a bad interpretation at that.

 

[Lion King]

All Jn 5:17 says is that both Messiah and His Father work, not that they work on Sabbath.

Context is everything.

Earlier in the passage, we see some of the Jews getting angry with Christ for commanding the man just healed to carry his bed on the Sabbath. According to the letter of the Law, carrying a load on the Sabbath day was strictly forbidden (Numbers 15:32-35, Jeremiah 17:21-23).

However, Jesus defends Himself by stating that both He and His Father are always at work, even on the Sabbath- proving to Israel that Christ is indeed the LORD of the Sabbath. After which, the Jews seek to kill Him for breaking the Sabbath and for making Himself equal with God.

As for Mt 12:5, all that goes to show is that there are different priorities in keeping the commandments - ministering and serving YHVH is more important than resting.

You never did answer my question:

If a man works on Sabbath so that he can put food on the table, is he guilty of violating the Sabbath?

It is my opinion that the mainstream translations are their translators are bound by centuries of church tradition to translate that verse and similar verses "first day of the week". This is one interpretation of the literal "mia ton sabbaton" - "one of the sabbaths", and a bad interpretation at that.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

[SilverBlade]

He didn't need to mention it directly. It is all included in "follow Me".

Messiah did not mention "worship YHVH only, and do not make idols" either in the passage you quoted. Perhaps those commandments are not really that important after all?

Right?

You clearly didn't read my previous posts. Thanks for playing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by ToxicReboMan

Weren't the Pharisees admonished for this type of legalism?
​

Nope.

Scripture teaches that Sabbath is for our rest and enjoyment, for YHVH's glory.
The Pharisees were admonished for adding man-made restrictions to the Sabbath until it became a huge burden.

QFT!

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE PHARISEES

Matthew 23:4
"For they are binding burdens, weighty/barea <926> and ill-bearing.
And they are placing upon the shoulders of the men, to the yet finger of them, not are willing to move them".

Acts 20:29 "For I have perceived this.
That shall be entering after the departure of me, wolves, weighty, into ye, no sparing of-the shepherded/flock"
[Matt 23:4/Philip 3:2]

Duran Duran - Hungry like the Wolf Live from Arena 1984 - YouTube

.

 

[from scratch]

Jesus did say 'Follow me', but, if the sabbath was important enough, would Jesus not say to the rich man "did you also honor the sabbath as well?" He didn't. No direct mention of it. The rich man didn't mention it either. What does that say? It was 'assumed'? or that it's not really that important after all?

You mean to tell us the ones mentioned weren't also assumed? I think no know you have a false and fallacious argument.

 

[from scratch]

One small problem Jesus healed on the sabbath and worked and you do know that the sabbath is one of many laws on Jews must keep right? so if your arguing for sabbath your arguing we keep all the laws.

That isn't his paradigm. He maintains we're only to keep some of the law which goes against the Bible.

 

[from scratch]

No.

To my knowledge, the Tanak defines "work" as things done during customary employment or earning wages of some sort, and carrying a burden.

Neither Messiah nor His disciples thus engaged in any work while picking grain to eat on Sabbath.

Then say I plant a garden for food. As long as it isn't to sell it isn't work, right? But the minute I sell some produce from it what happened a month ago becomes work and sin. Really?

 

[from scratch]

He didn't need to mention it directly. It is all included in "follow Me".

Not according to John 1:17.

Messiah did not mention "worship YHVH only, and do not make idols" either in the passage you quoted. Perhaps those commandments are not really that important after all?

Right?

No you have a fallacious argument.

 

[from scratch]

All Jn 5:17 says is that both Messiah and His Father work, not that they work on Sabbath.

As for Mt 12:5, all that goes to show is that there are different priorities in keeping the commandments - ministering and serving YHVH is more important than resting.

It is my opinion that the mainstream translations are their translators are bound by centuries of church tradition to translate that verse and similar verses "first day of the week". This is one interpretation of the literal "mia ton sabbaton" - "one of the sabbaths", and a bad interpretation at that.

Context has lots to do with translation. If we were to isolate the phrase from all context you have a strict point. I personally don't believe any place the phrase appears it is speaking of any Sabbath by context. Thus you have a fallacious argument serving your agenda.

 

[maco]

The issue is keeping the sabbath day holy.

And to answer the question, yes it is a sin. Just as much as breaking any of the other nine is a sin.

Edit: In an attempt to be clearer: Legalism when it comes to the sabbath involves making the sabbath a burden. One is not being legalistic if they inform someone that we have to keep the sabbath. They become legalistic when they make keeping the sabbath a burden.

Say for instance that I told you it was a sin to tie your shoe on the sabbath. Now say Jesus comes along says "You know your shoes untied right?" Your response. "Yes Lord." He then tells you "Tie your shoe, it's ok." Has He just broken the sabbath or has He simply freed you from a burden that wasn't suppose to be there in the first place? Keep that example in mind when you think about the Pharisees and how Jesus dealt with them. It may help.

Excellent response!

Many Sabbath keepers draw their principles for Sabbath keeping from man made rules and the traditions of the Pharisees. They do this without even realizing they're doing it. The reason for this is because, though they are reading their Bibles, they are missing the context of the verses and who they should be listening to in the discussions. In stead of listening to the Pharisees in how they were determining Jesus' actions to be a violation of the Sabbath they should listen to Jesus and His response to them. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. If Jesus truly violated the Sabbath He would be a sinner and unfit as the unblemished Lamb.

 

[from scratch]

The issue is keeping the sabbath day holy.

And to answer the question, yes it is a sin. Just as much as breaking any of the other nine is a sin.


Edit: In an attempt to be clearer: Legalism when it comes to the sabbath involves making the sabbath a burden. One is not being legalistic if they inform someone that we have to keep the sabbath. They become legalistic when they make keeping the sabbath a burden.

Say for instance that I told you it was a sin to tie your shoe on the sabbath. Now say Jesus comes along says "You know your shoes untied right?" Your response. "Yes Lord." He then tells you "Tie your shoe, it's ok." Has He just broken the sabbath or has He simply freed you from a burden that wasn't suppose to be there in the first place? Keep that example in mind when you think about the Pharisees and how Jesus dealt with them. It may help.

I'd say the legalism is the requiring the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath for salvation. There is no such requirement in the New Covenant or New Testament.

 

[maco]

I'd say the legalism is the requiring the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath for salvation. There is no such requirement in the New Covenant or New Testament.

That all depends on how you view the teachings of Jesus as to how they relate to principles of Sabbath keeping. Jesus taught much about how to keep the Sabbath, He didn't need to teach what day it was or how it was the forth commandment. Refusing to heal on the Sabbath was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Calling it sinful to get something to eat was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Jesus taught much on Sabbath keeping thus acknowledging its requirement.