Is masturbation without inappropriate contentography or lustful thoughts a sin?

Standing_Ultraviolet

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I have no idea what those last words mean. All that aside the bible makes it clear what things are sins.

Within some of the older traditions in Christianity (Catholicism, Orthodoxy, etc.), there is a belief that the apostles passed on some of their teachings through an oral tradition rather than through writing. Sola scriptura, to put it maybe a little too succinctly, is a relatively new innovation. These Churches believe that the Church (defined in this case as a visible outward institution rather than the Protestant concept of an invisible Church of all believers) guards, protects, and properly interprets the apostolic tradition through the magisterium.

And of course there is the fact different denominations believe in different things. As a christian I don't believe in gambling. Its a sin.

I will say that there's some irony here. At no point does the Bible say that gambling is a sin or a form of theft, even though it was known even during the time when the Hebrew Scriptures were written. Gambling is, generally speaking, a bad idea (although it can be fun in extreme moderation), but most older traditions like the one that Jonathan95 probably belongs to actually accept gambling as not inherently wrong.
 
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dayhiker

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Reading your post, Jonathan95, it sounds like you think Jerome was right in everything he said. So I assume you also believe with Jerome that husbands should only have sex with their wives when the want to have a child. All other sex with ones wife is sin.

Jermone also thought woman who starved themselves till their breasts had no more fat in them were beautiful because they wouldn't have enough energy to lust. That means they eat less than 700 calories a day. Do you also believe that all of us are sinning by eating around 2000 calories a day?
Jerome got it right after all! How many calaries are in your diet each day?

So a great doctor of the Church St. Jerome interpreted it wrong? If he held that interpretation of Genesis 3, most likely many other Church fathers also held that interpretation, especially since many of them condemned contraception.
 
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Jonathan95

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Reading your post, Jonathan95, it sounds like you think Jerome was right in everything he said. So I assume you also believe with Jerome that husbands should only have sex with their wives when the want to have a child. All other sex with ones wife is sin.

Jermone also thought woman who starved themselves till their breasts had no more fat in them were beautiful because they wouldn't have enough energy to lust. That means they eat less than 700 calories a day. Do you also believe that all of us are sinning by eating around 2000 calories a day?
Jerome got it right after all! How many calaries are in your diet each day?

Well his interpretation in this case (regarding masturbation) is in agreement with other Early Church fathers who were against contraception.

Regarding eating around 2000 calories a day, I don't know how much that is, but we shouldn't be gluttonous.

Yes, it's sinful to have sex with ones wife for the sole reason of sexual pleasure. Using a condom is sinful.

The sin of Onan proves the sinfulness of contraception. The Catholic Church has condemned contraception throughout the whole history.
 
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Reeniee

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Well his interpretation in this case (regarding masturbation) is in agreement with other Early Church fathers who were against contraception.

Regarding eating around 2000 calories a day, I don't know how much that is, but we shouldn't be gluttonous.

Yes, it's sinful to have sex with ones wife for the sole reason of sexual pleasure. Using a condom is sinful.

The sin of Onan proves the sinfulness of contraception. The Catholic Church has condemned contraception throughout the whole history.

Onan sinned by disobeying God about giving his Brother's widow a child. How is that applicable to *all* mankind?
 
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selfinflikted

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Onan sinned by disobeying God about giving his Brother's widow a child. How is that applicable to *all* mankind?

Perhaps in the same way Adam and Eve sinned against god, and their punishment applies to *all* mankind? Just a guess. :p
 
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Jonathan95

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Jonathan .. if you were eating 700 calories a day you couldn't play basketball. That's how few calories it is. So basically what I'm asking you is do you believe and live by all of Jerome's words or do you pick and choose?

I don't believe that we should only eat 700 calories a day then. I don't believe Jerome was infallible.

But it's another thing when his condemnation of contraception lines up with what other Early Church fathers has said about it.
 
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isitok

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I have been struggling with this same question/issue for years. When I was married, I think it may have been right to be convicted of it being wrong because I had a partner. Now I am divorced, no one in the picture, and cannot marry again (many reasons NOT for discussion here). So I'm not taking away from a spouse, cheating anyone of what should be theirs, nor hurting anyone by masturbating.

So if I am single, live alone, have no thoughts of a person, do not use inappropriate contentography, etc. (which are all true) is it Biblically wrong to touch? I do it because it feels so good and relaxes me. I even thought about getting one of those vibrators to get where I can't reach (if you get the drift)...again, because it would feel so wonderful to have something inside, giving me a climactic thrill that I will never in my lifetime experience again by a person. (I am against sex outside of marriage!) Three things stop me from getting a vibrating sex toy: cost; someone would find it after I die so it wouldn't be my secret then; and it would just be my luck that the thing would get stuck, break, or cause a physical problem and then I'd have to explain to a doctor which would be embarrassing.

Most of the time, sex wasn't that great when I was married, but there were one or two times (in 36 years) that it was awesome and didn't want it to end. I want to feel that experience again, and since I don't/can't have a spouse, what's wrong with meeting my own needs in a responsible manner?

I've heard and read both sides of the issue and am not convinced it is wrong. If I was convinced it is wrong, then I'd have to give it up somehow or I would be convicted. But right now I'm not convicted. I had gone months without doing it, fell into it one day, and again months went by. But earlier this week, the compulsion to do it became so strong and the release felt so good that I've done it several times.

Someone even said to me that if you're questioning whether something is right or wrong, then you have your doubts about it, and you're being convicted. I'm not so sure that reasoning is correct either because you can have an honest question about something and the answer might be it is not sin, so in that case, a question is not conviction.

I tried talking to a former pastor about this, but even though he said I could tell him anything, this was out of his comfort zone. He prayed for me, but we never talked about it, so I didn't get any help there. I know my present pastor would not be comfortable discussing it either, and after the first pastor's reaction/response, I don't want to attempt it again. I shared it with a female acquaintance (a pastor's wife) who I knew but didn't live nearby, and asked her to hold me accountable, but after a few times, she did not contact me again. I saw her a year later and neither of us said anything about it.

Well, that's enough for now. The more I talk about it, the more I want to go do it again. :blush: I'm signing off for tonight. I hope someone sees this and responds.
 
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Shempster

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Wow! This is the most intense thread I have read on CF :eek:

I have two viewpoints:

1. If we could see everything with God's eyes, even the holiest of us is rotten with deeply hidden sin. It might even be a sin to eat food that tastes good:confused:

2. Having lustful thoughts is just like actually doing them. God wants us to have pure minds. I personally believe that in heaven, our minds will be open and everything we think will be just like saying it. We are to train our minds to think purely in every situation.

Now if you are not thinking of anything whilst doing that....that's pretty iffy. Let the Holy Spirit tell you, not a bunch of opinionated forumites!
 
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KitKatMatt

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is just having lustful thoughts really a concern? if just having them is bad then boy am i really in trouble

I think most of us would be in big trouble, lol.

I don't see God as the thought police kind of guy. I have intrusive thoughts, which is a symptom of my OCD, so that would kind of doom me from the start without me even enjoying the thoughts that are running through my head.
 
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jacknife

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I think most of us would be in big trouble, lol.

I don't see God as the thought police kind of guy. I have intrusive thoughts, which is a symptom of my OCD, so that would kind of doom me from the start without me even enjoying the thoughts that are running through my head.
if i am wrong and he does exist i would say he is a very hands-off kind of guy. (your symbol is agnostic i kinda want to ask about that but im not sure this is the place.)
 
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KitKatMatt

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if i am wrong and he does exist i would say he is a very hands-off kind of guy. (your symbol is agnostic i kinda want to ask about that but im not sure this is the place.)

I'm always up to PMs if you ever want to talk about it.
 
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jacknife

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Only if you blindly follow the dictates of an ancient book written by desert nomads who claim its divine inspiration.
yeah but even then isn't that extreme? it's just a thought one doesn't have to act on it. i am just baffled this is a concern of anyone.
 
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JackofSpades

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Sex was not designed to be experienced alone, nor was it designed for our own selfish pleasure.



From biological point of view, if having [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] was not possible alone, this could be a credible claim. Interestingly tho, both sexes have bits which work very well in solo usage, so that could actually point to conclusion that they were designed for double purpose: solo and team work. Pregnancy seems to be designed for two people only, because it's not possible alone for either sex.
 
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