Is masturbation without inappropriate contentography or lustful thoughts a sin?

[Dave-W]

Just remember that in bible times (both testaments) that it was assumed in almost every case that people got married in their early teens. In some cases it was as early as age 9.

M would not be the same kind of issue in that environment.

 

[Nanopants]

Wow. Gone for a few days and 3 more pages of arguments. Great !!!

I know this makes many uncomfortable. But that is good. It is done because of discomfort - sometimes EXTREME discomfort.

Not that God wants us to be comfortable all the time; He doesn't. It is thru times of discomfort that we grow. But those are seasons with a resolution in the end.

It has been said we do not need sexual release. But the question remains "need it for WHAT exactly?"

Will we die if we do not have it today? Probably not.

The human race needs to have sex (procreate) to survive. That's basic common sense.

Scripturally, the mandate to procreate ("be fruitful and multiply") is recorded as one of the first.

Are we teaching people that this God-given drive to fulfill that imperative is sinful? In many cases I've run into, yes. Christians are twisting this into an issue of sin and evil.

But extended periods of arousal/need without release have been shown to have detrimental effects on our health. Males have earlier prostate problems. Females have uterine problems that can often require hysterectomies. Christian physician Dr Ed Wheat has stated in his practice that most of the hysterectomies done on his patients were from maladies of lack of release.

Famous American author Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain) was asked once if he was scared by the things he did not understand in the Bible. He answered no - he was scared enough by the things he DID understand.

The fact is that M is never forbiden in the bible. IOW the prohibition is a man made doctrine. The one place it is most clearly alluded to, (Song of Solomon chapter 5) it is put in a positive light.

So I would submit that by obsessing over it and making it a sin no matter the context, we do terrible damage to the faith of our young folk who feel trapped by a God who created powerful drives but condemns them for trying to relieve those drives. What kind of loving father would put his children in that situation? So it gives a warped image of God. It further gives a warped image of the drive that it is evil; an idea that may not go away when married. So it leads to sexual disfunction in marriage.

I agree 100%.

 

[Nanopants]

Just remember that in bible times (both testaments) that it was assumed in almost every case that people got married in their early teens. In some cases it was as early as age 9.

M would not be the same kind of issue in that environment.

Who in the old testament was married at age 9?

 

[Dave-W]

We do not have much information on OT marriage practices, but first century customs are recorded in the Mishnah. Tractate Ketuvim (marriage contracts) outlines the customs and steps of marriage in the Jewish culture. The parents make "arrangements" at age 5-9. If the parents of one of the arranged both die, the future spouse goes to live with his/her future in-laws. THe Mishnah goes on to say that the marriage is binding if the couple has had intercourse and both have reached the age of "nine years plus one day."

Since they thought it important enough to record for everyone to see, it must have happened at some time or another.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

You're right. But the thing is, sex isn't necessary for survival. You won't die if you don't have sex. Maybe that was the logic in later phases of Christian thought.

All I know is that lust is clearly a sin, and so is sexual immorality in general. But nobody will ever tell me what that is.

What am I supposed to do, though? Make something up myself? I don't live like that. I'd rather have clear, definite rules.

Have you ever decided to have your own bible study? I would never count on someone else to tell me something about my Lord that I have not checked and double-checked.

Maybe you should ask clear questions to get the answer. Now what is your question?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Have you ever decided to have your own bible study? I would never count on someone else to tell me something about my Lord that I have not checked and double-checked.

Maybe you should ask clear questions to get the answer. Now what is your question?

Asking the right questions from the Scriptures is the way to go, you're right.

 

[Nanopants]

We do not have much information on OT marriage practices, but first century customs are recorded in the Mishnah. Tractate Ketuvim (marriage contracts) outlines the customs and steps of marriage in the Jewish culture. The parents make "arrangements" at age 5-9. If the parents of one of the arranged both die, the future spouse goes to live with his/her future in-laws. THe Mishnah goes on to say that the marriage is binding if the couple has had intercourse and both have reached the age of "nine years plus one day."

Since they thought it important enough to record for everyone to see, it must have happened at some time or another.

^They would first be betrothed, which I have heard is a bit more serious than our version of engagements but not quite a marriage, would they not?

 

[grandvizier1006]

grandvizier1006

If you don't have that information and no one has been able to provide you with it then this is definitely self inflicted. You should set the issue down and pursue this with god on your own. Earlier you told me that you didn't want to be someone controlled by society's trends but now you say are frustrated because no one in your society has a rule to give you that just solves the whole thing for you.

You have to be strong man, you have to be willing to come to your own conclusions for yourself, that's one of the reasons you're afflicted by all these ideas and arrived where you are today. You've needed their rules to survive and you're still asking for society to create rules for you.

Read the bible and pray and ask god and come to your own conclusions and if you don't get answers than set it down for now.

Every last one of us is reading the same book you are and talking to the same god... what are the chances there's someone out there who knows everything you don't? Why torture yourself this way? Why do you think so little of yourself?

You're right. I'm sorry I had so much resentment towards you for that. I was getting really upset yesterday.

Basically, I'm alone for large periods of time with nothing to do. I've had a lot of time to be lonely, and so of course that's plenty of time to touch. But my understanding was that I "needed stimulation" for that to work. So I guess I sort of associated masturbation with lust, like many people my age.

It's been something that I've struggled with, and I'm afraid of saying that masturbation is ok in a certain context because I don't want to give myself or anyone I could pass this information on to the idea that it's ok to look at inappropriate content or have sexual fantasies. And I was addicted to that sort of thing for a very long time, and I'm trying to get out of that now. It used to be worse, but I'd like to sort of break free of the need, because realistically speaking, I won't die if I don't touch. I would just like a way to "store" my sex drive for later, when I might need it, so that it doesn't get in the way of the rest of my life.

 

[Dave-W]

^They would first be betrothed, which I have heard is a bit more serious than our version of engagements but not quite a marriage, would they not?

IN most situations, yes. The order would be:

1 - arrangement at age 5-8 or so.
2 - betrothal about age 12-14. This is done by signing the "Ketubah" or marriage contract. Since it is a legally binding document, a divorce is required to break it.
3 - actual marriage. About a year after betrothal.

After signing the Ketubah, the groom starts building a home for his future family, overseen by his father. Often it was a new wing off of the family home. When his father deems the building safe, sturdy and sufficient size, he tells the boy to go get his bride. This building process takes about a year, more or less depending on how well and quickly he builds.

The father can tell the boy to go get his bride at any time, day or night. (except on the sabbath) He goes and gets her, takes her into the new home, consumates the marriage and then a party starts which can last anywhere from 2 days to a week. (depending on the season and how wealthy the families were)

 

[Jonathan95]

That is a false assertion I can contradict with multiple witnesses of first hand experience.

The Bible goes before someones experiences.

Yes, I am sure that many of us can testify to the benefits of masturbation and we aren't going to hell.

Masturbation is unhealthy in a few ways (or many), I know this from own experience and from what I've read.

 

[Kiritsugu Emiyah]

The Bible goes before someones experiences.



Masturbation is unhealthy in a few ways (or many), I know this from own experience and from what I've read.

I know it's perfectly fine from experience and from what I've read.

and no the bible does not come first, the recreation and birth into Christ and the help of the holyspirit (an experience) come first, without those the bible is not useable.

 

[barotaro]

Yes, how helpful. Telling people who have spent countless hours masturbating because they couldn't make friends in the real world and turned to inappropriate content because they were lonely, desperate and seeking companionship and thought they had to sexualize it that they are obsessing with this too much really helps to solve the problem. Of course ISIS is more important, but we don't have to talk about them 24/7, now do we? At least THEY get to leave as martyrs.

And yes, "Kiritsugu", this HAS been negatively affecting my psyche. But I'd rather feel guilt from my sin then pretend like I should enjoy it just because society says so. People were not made to obsess over sex, and newsflash, we DON'T need it like we need to eat and sleep. Some people go their whole lives being virgins, they don't waste away and die. Maybe some of them get some sexual frustration, but not all of them. Celibacy has a long association with Christianity, and so does sex within a marriage.

It can be hard to separate all the cultural 'noise' and figure out for ourselves what *we* need physically/socially/spiritually. I think you're kind of dismissing it as a dichotomy where those who are more extroverted don't fantasize or touch too. Like 98% of males do this on a regular basis. The sex drive is pretty strong, but you're right, it's behind food and sleep and some do go without it.

However, i'm not saying you don't struggle ('obsess') with it more than the extroverts. There's a pretty big diff after all between the busy and socially active married guy who jerks off once a week, and what you're describing.

Now, that doesn't mean you have to choose between unmitigated lust and deep shame. We humans are imperfect, after all. We all struggle with unwanted thoughts (SSA, in my case), but we can't beat ourselves up to the point that if we 'slip up' we become wrecked psychologically. In my experience, that just leads to giving up the struggle, in addition to risking loss of faith, as a means to cope.

So i propose a middle ground of setting goals and tracking progress, like anything else. The internet is kind of the devil, because temptation is only a click away, but you can use it to your advantage too. You don't even have to leave the room necessarily to find more healthy/useful/fulfilling distractions. There's plenty of online communities (such as this forum), hobbies (i've taken to online euchre), new skills to learn.

 

[Cearbhall]

I think you're kind of dismissing it as a dichotomy where those who are more extroverted don't fantasize or touch too. Like 98% of males do this on a regular basis. The sex drive is pretty strong, but you're right, it's behind food and sleep and some do go without it.

Indeed. It's normal and healthy for both men and women. It's certainly not a sign of some social problem.