Is Masturbation a sin?

[Dave-W]

Jesus said we should flee from sexual immorality and that means masturbation.

That was Paul. The only "fleeing" Jesus said to do was to escape Jerusalem when Rome came to destroy her (happened in 70 ad)
I think the verse you were thinking of is 1 Corinthians 6:18.

Now as to whether that is talking about "M" or not - I see no indication that it does. I see it as a made-up doctrine and definition that has no basis in biblical text.

 

[OGM]

Jesus said we should flee from sexual immorality and that means masturbation. Masturbation teaches self gratification. Yes, he created us to have sexual desires, but sex is some he designed in the context of marriage between a man and woman.

Why are people designed to have sexual desires YEARS before marriage?

 

[Cearbhall]

Why are people designed to have sexual desires YEARS before marriage?

Early humans likely became aware that lifelong commitments work better when people have fully developed. Since puberty is not the end of mental and physical development into adulthood, there's a gap. In some times and places, cultures did not have this gap.

So I agree with you. It seems rather silly to consider any form of sexual gratification to be taboo just because we as a culture have decided that the huge step of marriage should wait a bit.

 

[dayhiker]

years before marriage ... most of human history people got married close to puberty. If they didn't have the means to get married, I've never heard what they did ... I suspect they masturbated.

 

[Cearbhall]

years before marriage ... most of human history people got married close to puberty. If they didn't have the means to get married, I've never heard what they did ... I suspect they masturbated.

It depends who the "they" is. Prostitution and premarital sex have been commonplace in almost every time and place, though.

 

[dayhiker]

That is true ... I didn't include prostitution as I was thinking of guys with so little money/goods that they couldn't afford them.
But your right there are ways ...

 

[High Fidelity]

Why are people designed to have sexual desires YEARS before marriage?

Many years ago, people were probably married or courting around the time they started getting those desires.

 

[BukiRob]

I have an idea... why don't we stop creating definitions and stick with those that are clearly defined in scripture for us?
The Greek porneuó and is specifically defined as fornication which is further illuminated specifically to mean illicit (unlawful and illegitimate) sexual intercourse. It also carries the meaning of harlotry which includes adultery and incest. Finally it also means idolatry fornication (temple prostitution)

ABSOLUTELY NO WHERE is masturbation even hinted.

I personally think that trying to condemn men and especially young men over this issue is horrific to the point of being borderline evil. It consumes most young men with deep shame largely put on them by people in the "church" It effectively feeds into what Satan wants... he wants you to believe that G-d could never love you or forgive you. Satan's goal is to get you through shame to flee from G-d. We are called to do the exact opposite. Stand firm and Satan will flee!

The sex drive, especially in young men, is one of the base drives in a human behind only Food, Water and Air. To tell young men if you engage in manual release you are sinning is on very, very, very shaky ground when you can not build a strong biblical case for this to be true.

 

[dayhiker]

From my studies, BukiRob, I think when Paul wrote the Greek only meant temple prostitution. So I think all the other definitions were added by theologians just as they added to your list to add sexual immorality.

 

[Dave-W]

Many years ago, people were probably married or courting around the time they started getting those desires.

Certainly in NT bible times they were. Arrangement happened at age 5-7. Betrothal often occurred about 11-12, with marriage about a year later. (from first century Jewish sources)

 

[Dave-W]

Why are people designed to have sexual desires YEARS before marriage?

Why do we artificially push back the age of marriage until years (decades even) after puberty?

 

[Dave-W]

The Greek porneuó and is specifically defined as fornication which is further illuminated specifically to mean illicit (unlawful and illegitimate) sexual intercourse. It also carries the meaning of harlotry which includes adultery and incest. Finally it also means idolatry fornication (temple prostitution)

Not entirely how pornia was used in the Greek speaking Jewish diaspora communities. (where Paul spent his early childhood) It was used to describe whatever violated Torah sexual prohibitions.

 

[BukiRob]

Many years ago, people were probably married or courting around the time they started getting those desires.

Girls were usually married shortly after they began to menstruate. Young men married at 18-20. Some will try and tell you that a Jewish boy could marry at 14 but that is almost certainly wrong. A young man lived with his mother and father until he married. It was the father of the young man who decided when the couple would marry and that always was a by product of when the young man could take care of his wife and the children that would come soon after the marriage.

So when Yeshua is telling the crowd that if a man looks upon a woman and lusts after he that he has already committed adultery he is saying this because 99.8% of the time the young woman he is looking at is MARRIED. Adultery can ONLY occur if one or both participants are MARRIED. If neither are married it is fornication the two are very different.

I remain largely unconvinced that masturbation is in and of itself a sin. I am willing and open to being corrected but I just dont see much evidence to support such a stance

 

[BukiRob]

Not entirely how pornia was used in the Greek speaking Jewish diaspora communities. (where Paul spent his early childhood) It was used to describe whatever violated Torah sexual prohibitions.

I'm pulling those definitions directly out of Strong's....

 

[Dave-W]

Young men married at 18-20

First century Judea it was more like 12-14.

 

[Dave-W]

I'm pulling those definitions directly out of Strong's....

I understand. But Strong did not take into account usage in the Jewish diaspora, and neither did the ecclesiastical institutions of the day. He relied on them for his information.

 

[BukiRob]

First century Judea it was more like 12-14.

Sources? For girls yes, you have the right age.. for boys no.

Isaac was 40 when he married Rebecca. Jacob was well into the golden years when he married.

I see almost no scriptural evidence to support boys marrying at the age you cite. It is most reasonable that Joseph (30's or 40's) was far older than Miriam. Frankly, there is no real scriptural evidence that supports a claim that 12-14 year old boys were being married off by their father. I suspect quite the opposite. The idea that a 12-14 year old boy would be capable of supporting a family is rather absurd.

Especially so when there is significant scriptural evidence that fathers did not marry off their sons until WELL into adulthood. Young men tend to be dumb as a bag of hammers and teenage boys far less responsible.

Now if you are saying that teenagers married post biblical era, that then is an entirely different discussion. In Europe life expectancy was rather short

Circa 258 AD shows a startling short life expectancy. A papri found in Roman Egypt shows that only 23% of the population of the census reached 35+ years of age. The 3 largest cohorts are 15-19,20-24 and 30-34 with only 7% of the census making it to age 60

 

[Dave-W]

Source? The Mishnah and the Talmuds.

They record the process as follows:

Arrangement is made by the parents when both are age 5 to 9, sometimes earlier. When the boy reaches age 12 (give or take), a Ketubah [marriage congract] is drawn up and signed by the couple and their parents. The boy then starts building a home for his future family, often as a new wing off of his father's house. (I go to prepare a place for you ... in my Fathers house are many dwelling places)

When the construction is done (usually takes about a year) and the boy's father deems it large enough and sturdy enough he tells his son to go get his bride. No one knows when but the father alone. It could be 10 am, it could be 11 pm; any time but right before or on the Sabbath. He then goes on a horse (a white one if possible) to collect his bride and take her back. She has to keep a watch out for him to come and when she sees him yell out LOUD:

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!"

Loud enough to bring in the workers from the field or wake every one up (if it is the middle of the night) The couple go to the new home, consummate the marriage, and then party for a day or 2 up to a week (if they are wealthy).

Many of these traditions ended up in the Lord's teaching in the gospels. They were used because they were familiar to everyone.

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Interestingly, the Mishnah also records that the custom was, if both parents of either of the marriage couple died, the parents of the other were to finish raising the orphan. And if they had sex in that situation ... it says the marriage is binding immediatly if the couple has had sex and BOTH have reached the age of "nine years plus one day."

 

[J. Bleize]

I'm not saying it's a sin, but it seems like something extremely fruitless (especially 'Fruits-of-the-Spirit'less) to do. Also, if it isn't a sin, could you do it if you saw Jesus standing next to you watching you?

 

[dayhiker]

I'm not saying it's a sin, but it seems like something extremely fruitless (especially 'Fruits-of-the-Spirit'less) to do. Also, if it isn't a sin, could you do it if you saw Jesus standing next to you watching you?

I've answered the question about Jesus standing by side already today. fruitless ... is watching the sun set fruitless?