Is Mary a source of Holiness?

FrauleinElsa · Feb 15, 2007

repentant said:
Condensing things? To say that the only available Bible was in Latin, and that it was kept from the people, is just plain lying..or missinformation.

*Rolls eyes* Whatever. I'm not going to argue. I have more important things to do and worry about.

DrBubbaLove · Feb 15, 2007

IamAdopted said:
I am not saying that Mary did not live a Holy life.. I am asking if Mary is a source of Holiness.. Scripture does not back this.. Gods own written truth does not hold this up to be true..

Again the quote in the OP does not say she is a source of holiness, so am not sure why you keep asking the question.

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 16, 2007

repentant said:
Where in this thread have a Catholic and Orthodox disagreed?

Let's see, the Ark carried the 10 Commandments which was written by the hand of God, and was the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God, Mary carried Jesus...you don't see the resemblence? How is Jesus the Ark? Did He carry Himself?

Read above..

NOT even close. BUT, if you think that...ok. I don't. I disagree.

HOW do you (EO) and Catholics agree?? YOU are kidding right? As I said, you both claim the same things...yet one of you has to be wrong. You both can't be the same exact thing....OR there wouldn't be a 'split' now would there?

Knowledge3 · Feb 16, 2007

HisBelovedMelody said:
NOT even close. BUT, if you think that...ok. I don't. I disagree.

HOW do you (EO) and Catholics agree?? YOU are kidding right? As I said, you both claim the same things...yet one of you has to be wrong. You both can't be the same exact thing....OR there wouldn't be a 'split' now would there?

The RCC and EO have minor disagreements over fundamental dogmas and certain concepts of Christianity.

The East simply has a different theological perspective than the West.

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 16, 2007

Knowledge3 said:
The RCC and EO have minor disagreements over fundamental dogmas and certain concepts of Christianity.

The East simply has a different theological perspective than the West.

still makes it a split, still makes one of you wrong...the VERY thing you accuse "Protestants' of is in your 'split'...not all protestants believe the same thing...but the point is you both claim to be the ONLY 'true' church. SOMETHING is wrong..

Knowledge3 · Feb 16, 2007

HisBelovedMelody said:
still makes it a split, still makes one of you wrong...the VERY thing you accuse "Protestants' of is in your 'split'...not all protestants believe the same thing...but the point is you both claim to be the ONLY 'true' church. SOMETHING is wrong..

Apostolic succession started with the Apostles.

St. Andrew started Constantinople.

Sts. Peter and Paul started the Antiochian Church of Jerusalem and Antioch.

When the Church split, each had their apostolic succession intact.

Iollain · Feb 16, 2007

Let's see, the Ark carried the 10 Commandments which was written by the hand of God, and was the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God, Mary carried Jesus...you don't see the resemblence? How is Jesus the Ark? Did He carry Himself?

"so is that ark declared a type of the body of Christ, which is both pure and immaculate. For as that ark was gilded with pure gold both within and without, so also is the body of Christ pure and resplendent, being adorned within by the Word, and shielded on the outside by the Spirit, in order that from both materials the splendour of the natures might be exhibited together." (Fragments from the Lost Writings of Irenaeus, 48)

At that time, then, the Saviour appeared and showed His own body to the world, born of the Virgin, who was the 'ark overlaid with pure gold,' with the Word within and the Holy Spirit without; so that the truth is demonstrated, and the 'ark' made manifest....the Saviour appeared in the world, bearing the imperishable ark, His own body" (On Daniel, 2:6)Hippolytus

"'Arise, O Lord, into Thy resting place' (ver. 8). He saith unto the Lord sleeping, 'Arise.' Ye know already who slept, and who rose again. ...'Thou, and the ark of Thy sanctification:' that is, Arise, that the ark of Thy sanctification, which Thou hast sanctified, may arise also. He is our Head; His ark is His Church: He arose first, the Church will arise also. The body would not dare to promise itself resurrection, save the Head arose first. The Body of Christ, that was born of Mary, hath been understood by some to be the ark of sanctification; so that the words mean, Arise with Thy Body, that they who believe not may handle." - Augustine (Expositions on the Psalms, 132:8)Augustine

..........so are they crazy or just dreaming?

Benedicta00 · Feb 16, 2007

Iollain · Feb 16, 2007

"'And the temple of God was opened which is in heaven.' The temple opened is a manifestation of our Lord. For the temple of God is the Son, as He Himself says: 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' And when the Jews said, 'Forty and six years was this temple in building,' the evangelist says, 'He spake of the temple of His body.' 'And there was seen in His temple the ark of the Lord's testament.' The preaching of the Gospel and the forgiveness of sins, and all the gifts whatever that came with Him, he says, appeared therein." (Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John, 11:19)

Victorinus

Benedicta00 · Feb 16, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Where is it written that we are to follow the example of Mary? When so little is given about Mary in scripture?

So her fiat is not an exapmle? They way she didnt hesitate and said yes to God's will right away isn't anything we would do good to imitate?

Iollain · Feb 16, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
So her fiat is not an exapmle? They way she didnt hesitate and said yes to God's will right away isn't anything we would do good to imitate?

I do not think anyone said we should not take Mary as an example to imitate. The question was is she a source of holiness.

Benedicta00 · Feb 16, 2007

Iollain said:
I do not think anyone said we should not take Mary as an example to imitate.

ah... sure about that?

Where is it written that we are to follow the example of Mary? When so little is given about Mary in scripture?

I recognize however not everyone here, maybe not anyone else even, has this level of disdain for Mary....

Myriah · Feb 16, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
So her fiat is not an exapmle? They way she didnt hesitate and said yes to God's will right away isn't anything we would do good to imitate?

I would have said "yes" to God, wouldn't you?

I think at least 50% or more of women would have said "yes". Why wouldn't they?

Iollain · Feb 16, 2007

IAmAdopted, do you think it is wrong to look at Marys life as an example of saying yes to God and doing His will, and being His humble handmaiden?

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 16, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
ah... sure about that?

I recognize however not everyone here, maybe not anyone else even, has this level of disdain for Mary....

why do YOU come in here and throw lies around? I for one do NOT disdain Mary. DON'T put words in my mouth. She is NOT the source of my holiness..Jesus is. Period.

IamAdopted · Feb 16, 2007

there are many statements that say that Mary is the one whom all graces flow.. Mary is the one whom you have to get to Jesus. So therefore I ask again.. Is Mary a source of Holiness.. Is she the Way To Jesus? Is she the one from whom grace flows?

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 16, 2007

IamAdopted said:
there are many statements that say that Mary is the one whom all graces flow.. Mary is the one whom you have to get to Jesus. So therefore I ask again.. Is Mary a source of Holiness.. Is she the Way To Jesus? Is she the one from whom grace flows?

no. Mary did not die on the cross for me. Jesus did. It is from HIM everything flows...In Him I move, and live and have my being. THAT is Bible. NO where does it say anything about Mary. SORRY...she is a vessel God used (NO did NOT discard afterwards before anyone jumps on that)...

IamAdopted · Feb 16, 2007

HisBelovedMelody said:
no. Mary did not die on the cross for me. Jesus did. It is from HIM everything flows...In Him I move, and live and have my being. THAT is Bible. NO where does it say anything about Mary. SORRY...she is a vessel God used (NO did NOT discard afterwards before anyone jumps on that)...

Amen Sister...

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 16, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Amen Sister...

thanks! I mean, salvation is so simple. It is us humans that mess things up, add to what God has said...makes my head swim.

Benedicta00 · Feb 16, 2007

IamAdopted said:
there are many statements that say that Mary is the one whom all graces flow.. Mary is the one whom you have to get to Jesus. So therefore I ask again.. Is Mary a source of Holiness.. Is she the Way To Jesus? Is she the one from whom grace flows?

Didn't the the fount of all holiness come to us through her womb? A simple yes or no will do...

Didn't our salvation which is from God come to us through her womb? A simple yes or no will suffice...

Didn't the source of divine grace come to us from God through her womb?

yes or no... was Mary the "vessel" in which God chose to send us the Word made flesh?

The answer is undoubtly yes, so in that sense and in that sense only (don't come back with some nonsense that we think this makes her savior) all the wonderful things from god came to us through her.

Thus she is the source and its only said in a figurative way, not literal but I realize that is the only way you wish to interpret this so you can have yet another bone to pick with Catholicism.

Is Mary a source of Holiness?

Veni,Veni Emanuel...

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