Is Mary a source of Holiness?

[Knowledge3]

this one is particularily bothersome.

3) Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, ASS 24, 1891, 196.
... it is right to say, that nothing at all of that very great treasury of all grace which the Lord brought us--for 'grace and truth came through Jesus Christ' [Jn 1.17]--nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother.

This quote is a teaching of the Catholic papacy, and is not a teaching of the Orthodox Church.

 

[Knowledge3]

Nope.

I would be very afraid to venerate/worship/pray for anyone other than God and I wouldn't take the risk of using icons or graven images to do so.

If you would take the time to understand Catholic teaching, you would see that the "graven image" you relate to is actually a Sacrament containing the Real Presence of Christ.

The Incarnation of the Son of God completely changed how we relate to icons.

 

[Uphill Battle]

This quote is a teaching of the Catholic papacy, and is not a teaching of the Orthodox Church.

I understand that yes, I wasn't attributing it to EO. Thanks though!

 

[IamAdopted]

this one is particularily bothersome.

3) Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, ASS 24, 1891, 196.
... it is right to say, that nothing at all of that very great treasury of all grace which the Lord brought us--for 'grace and truth came through Jesus Christ' [Jn 1.17]--nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother.

I agree this is quite disturbing..

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Some people teach that Mary is the neck of the Church and all grace comes to all the Church via her, and she decides where it goes. So God's grace goes to God, to Mary, and she decides how to give it out. But of course you won't hear that around here cause noone has the .......whatever it takes to preach it.

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4a.htm

That notion is very frightening to me. I mean, she's human. Humans should not be in charge of God's job. People are just too tempermental. Freaky.

 

[repentant]

I just kind of find it amusing how people 2000 years after the fact, seem to know better than the 2000 year history of the Church, and all the millions, if not billions who have come before us..

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Okay.

 

[IamAdopted]

I just kind of find it amusing how people 2000 years after the fact, seem to know better than the 2000 year history of the Church, and all the millions, if not billions who have come before us..

Well I am a little concerned when a group strays from the written word and make up thier own traditions to follow and then pronounce athema's if you don't agree with what they teach.. Sounds like bondage to me.. Just what Jesus came to set us free from..

 

[repentant]

Okay.

Well up until 1054 AD, there was one Church that believed the same thing. All the Christians believed the same thing. Even after 1054, the differences that came up between East and West weren't so much Theological issues. We both remained the same according to Theology for the most part. We both still honored and venerated Mary and the Saints. It wasn't until the 16th century that this was considered "wrong". And even the first reformers Luther and Calvin, held Mary in high esteem and venerated her..

 

[repentant]

Well I am a little concerned when a group strays from the written word and make up thier own traditions to follow and then pronounce athema's if you don't agree with what they teach.. Sounds like bondage to me.. Just what Jesus came to set us free from..

How does honoring Mary stray from the written word? I seem to remember people calling Mary "Blessed" being in the written Word actually..

And this group you refer to is the Church handed down by the Apostles. Read the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch one day..he was a direct Disciple of John the Apostle. So where do you think he learned it from?

Not to mention is this same group is what handed down the written Word to us. So how do you know the written Word is actually true considering you deny everything else they handed down? And like I said before, Ignatius honored and venerated the mother of God, and this was well before the written Word was was it is..

 

[Iollain]

So Repentant, what exactly do you do to venerate Mary, how often, is it a daily thing or everytime you pray? If you don't mind me being nosey.

 

[IamAdopted]

How does honoring Mary stray from the written word? I seem to remember people calling Mary "Blessed" being in the written Word actually..

And this group you refer to is the Church handed down by the Apostles. Read the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch one day..he was a direct Disciple of John the Apostle. So where do you think he learned it from?

Not to mention is this same group is what handed down the written Word to us. So how do you know the written Word is actually true considering you deny everything else they handed down? And like I said before, Ignatius honored and venerated the mother of God, and this was well before the written Word was was it is..

I remember Jesus saying on the contrary when someone called out the same thing while He was there. Setting them straight..

 

[repentant]

So Repentant, what exactly do you do to venerate Mary, how often, is it a daily thing or everytime you pray? If you don't mind me being nosey.

Uh well it's not a thing you do, but a way you think..

 

[repentant]

I remember Jesus saying on the contrary when someone called out the same thing while He was there. Setting them straight..

So you are saying that someone called Mary blessed and He said she wasn't?

You talking about this?

27And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Jesus was saying here that those who obey God are blessed. He was saying the fact that His mother bore him in her womb is not what makes her blessed, but the fact she obeyed God that makes her blessed. She was the opposite of Eve. If it wasn't for Eve disobeying God, would would have never seen death, and if it wasn't for Mary obeying God, we would have never seen life again..

Don't twist Scripture.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Well up until 1054 AD, there was one Church that believed the same thing. All the Christians believed the same thing. Even after 1054, the differences that came up between East and West weren't so much Theological issues. We both remained the same according to Theology for the most part. We both still honored and venerated Mary and the Saints. It wasn't until the 16th century that this was considered "wrong". And even the first reformers Luther and Calvin, held Mary in high esteem and venerated her..

I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to reply to my post. I have no desire to debate this and I'm not consumed with the need to convince you that I feel you're wrong. Since you brought it up I will say one thing and leave it at that. During those years that you mentioned the Bible was only available in Latin and was prohibited for the common people to have it in their language. I'll leave it to each individual to ask themself why. But it was only after it became available in other languages that people began to see the fallacy of the teaching of the Catholic church and thus creating the mass exoduses that occured.

 

[IamAdopted]

Here is what Jesus said when someone in the crowd wanted to venerate Mary..

27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." 28But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."

Here we See what Jesus has to say about those whom wanted to do this.. Contrary.. Opposition of..

 

[Iollain]

Uh well it's not a thing you do, but a way you think..

oh i thought it was actual giving her veneration.....didn't know that, so you think she hears your thoughts? i dont think you do but im just going to ask anyways.

 

[Iollain]

So you are saying that someone called Mary blessed and He said she wasn't?

You talking about this?

27And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Jesus was saying here that those who obey God are blessed. He was saying the fact that His mother bore him in her womb is not what makes her blessed, but the fact she obeyed God that makes her blessed. She was the opposite of Eve. If it wasn't for Eve disobeying God, would would have never seen death, and if it wasn't for Mary obeying God, we would have never seen life again..

Don't twist Scripture.

I think Jesus said this because maybe the women thought that if this man Jesus who heals the sick, resurrects the dead, is this great, then maybe his mother was something she was not, or something more than He is?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Scripture does not back up that Mary is a source of holiness..

Where is it written that we are to follow the example of Mary? When so little is given about Mary in scripture?

Anyone who DOES God's Will is an example. Or is that not agreeable for you?

 

[IamAdopted]

So you are saying that someone called Mary blessed and He said she wasn't?

You talking about this?

27And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Jesus was saying here that those who obey God are blessed. He was saying the fact that His mother bore him in her womb is not what makes her blessed, but the fact she obeyed God that makes her blessed. She was the opposite of Eve. If it wasn't for Eve disobeying God, would would have never seen death, and if it wasn't for Mary obeying God, we would have never seen life again..

Don't twist Scripture.

You tell me not to twist scripture and they you post this? Okay then.. And in what Jesus said how do you get what you say.

He was saying the fact that His mother bore him in her womb is not what makes her blessed, but the fact she obeyed God that makes her blessed. She was the opposite of Eve. If it wasn't for Eve disobeying God, would would have never seen death, and if it wasn't for Mary obeying God, we would have never seen life again..