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Is man evil?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by 13Hankins, Aug 20, 2003.

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  1. Palatka44

    Palatka44 Unabashedly Baptist

    +88
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    It is God that created evil. First of all He created it as a choice for man.
    Gen.2:9
    9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Job 42:11
    11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all
    the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
    12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
    13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
    14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
    15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
    16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
    17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

    Isaiah 45:7
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
    and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
    This is a very complext statement, However His Word said it and I must believe it.
     
  2. jenjenjeroo

    jenjenjeroo I Love Steven

    66
    +2
    Christian
    AMEN! God Created the Angle Lusifer Also Did He Not? Man Is Evil Because They Chooes To Sin, To Do Evil! Our very Nature is to Sin, So Yes Man Is Evil!
     
  3. kiwichristian

    kiwichristian A Self-Professed Jesus Lover! <img src="http://www

    548
    +81
    Christian
    This is quite a hard subject to debate.
    Im actually wondering whether or not man is evil.
    I tend to say yes, because it says in his Word that man's heart is evil. But I dont realy know as to whether man was made evil or not.
     
  4. Theresa

    Theresa With Reason

    +186
    Catholic

    -Firstly, I am not so quick to debate it because this very same subject has been beat to death in GA, but I will say a few things.

    Firstly, God saw all that he had made and said it was, "Good, Good, Good."

    God is perfect. Evil is not something as opposed to good, evil is the lack of good. God does not make perfection and imperfection.

    God created good and free-will. Evil is free-will rejecting the good and it began with the rebellion of the Devil. It is as if "the moon in love with it's own light, rejected the sun." The moon, the Devil, loved himself so much that he lost all love at all, and it became hate, but hate is not something as opposed to love, it is the absence of love, the absence of light.

    So then, evil already existed when he made man but he did not wish man to have to experience evil, but he tests all creatures intended for union with Him. So he gave Adam a test, choose to listen and obey him, and choose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Adam knew it was bad to eat from the tree of Good and Evil because God had told him not to, but he did it anyway. Knowledge is considered experience. When you ask, "Did you 'know' her in the biblical sense," we know what it means, and it means did you experience her. To taste the fruit and touch and eat it is an allusion to the experience of evil. They wanted to know it, and so they ate it.

    Gen.2:9
    9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    -since the fall of the angels God had intended to continue to use even the fallen angels as His instrument. So then, God used the Devil to test his creation, but even after they failed to resist temptation, he once again brought a greater good from it, namely Christ who became Man for our sake.


    Job 42:11
    11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
    12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
    13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
    14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
    15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
    16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
    17 So Job died, being old and full of days.


    -there are two types of evil as the Jews understood it and as we understand it today, but the understanding often get's lost in translation.

    Here it says the evil God had brought to him. Evil is understood to be suffering as I'll show with the next verse. Sin and suffering are linked and so the Jews understood it, too. Moral evil=sin, Serb evil=suffering.


    Isaiah 45:7
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


    Isaiah 45 (NIV)
    7 I form the light and create darkness,
    I bring prosperity and create disaster;
    I, the LORD , do all these things.

    Isaiah 45(NAB)
    7
    The One forming light and creating darkness,
    Causing well-being and creating calamity;
    I am the LORD who does all these

    Isaiah 45(ESV)

    7I form light and create darkness,
    I make well-being and create calamity,
    I am the LORD, who does all these things.

    Isaiah 45 (CEV)
    7I create light and darkness,
    happiness and sorrow.
    I, the LORD, do all of this.



    -if God created moral evil then we would not be to blame for anything we do and his seeming justice would not be just. God only creates perfection but he cannot create imperfection, it is impossible, and evil is imperfection; good=7, evil=6.

    Nonetheless, God allows evil for the sake of a greater good because he allows us to have free-will.
     
  5. good4u

    good4u <font color="darkblue"><font size="3"><b><i><font

    +45
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Republican
    Excellent statement, kiwi.

    Man was MADE innocent by God. Because man was made in the image of God, God gave man the capacity to choose. Good and evil was a choice God had given to man. God gave a warning to man to not disobey Him. However, man disobeyed God and man fell into the constant tendency of evil or sinful by nature. Hence, since Adam all men (except Christ) had an evil or sinful nature.

    This is why man can never reform himself into being truly good. It is man's nature to be evil and all the time. Had it not been for Christ, no man would be righteous before God.
     
  6. Palatka44

    Palatka44 Unabashedly Baptist

    +88
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    You're right Theresa,
    Yet while He created Lucifer perfict evil was "found in him".
    Ecclesiastes 3:1
    1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    Ecclesiastes 3:16-17
    16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.
    17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

    There is nothing under the sun that God has'nt created, including rebellious evil. Remember Lucifer?
     
  7. 13Hankins

    13Hankins New Member

    25
    +1
    My class had no conclusion. Niether side had enough proof. It was my government class by the way and I go to a public school. Our teacher didn't mind us getting religion into the process. I still think man is evil. I don't really see how we couldn't be. We think of ourselves more than anything else. We want to be successful making us greedy. We fight wars and we dont really care who we are fighting we just want to win. I think its best said in the tribulation force book that we look at other women in sexual ways makings us lusters therefore we are adultolters and we all have stolen something where it be a paper clip, pencil, or candy making us all thieves in the eyes of God.
     
  8. kiwichristian

    kiwichristian A Self-Professed Jesus Lover! <img src="http://www

    548
    +81
    Christian
    I know that this thread is old, but I just wanted to put here about what Norman Geisler, a noted Christian apologist said about evil:
    "God made evil possible; man made evil actual." I like it. :)
     
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