is listing to rock and rap a sin?

Ainesis · Jul 4, 2005

Redguard said:
Again, I'm left wondering why all the focus is being placed on hip-hop. The evil that hip-hop portrays isn't anywhere as prevalent as that of rock'n'roll, heavy metal, etc, where demons, devil worship and dark arts are more up front.

That is probably true, and maybe someone else can share insights into rock.

Perhaps too, it is also what you suggest. It is rather obvious where alot of that rock stuff originates because it is more upfront. Hip Hop? I don't know that it is as obvious, but it is becoming more so.

invisible trousers · Jul 4, 2005

Redguard said:
Again, I'm left wondering why all the focus is being placed on hip-hop. The evil that hip-hop portrays isn't anywhere as prevalent as that of rock'n'roll, heavy metal, etc, where demons, devil worship and dark arts are more up front.

rich and popular black men are scary

(i.e. lots of subtle racism)

Ainesis · Jul 4, 2005

Yes, the basis of this criticism is certainly an anti-black thing.

For the record, for me, it is not a black/white thing; it is a God/devil thing. And I will stand against the devil 24/7 whether he be packaged in black, white, blue, or green.

If there is any resistance in you in standing against evil for fear of standing against those who are black, then...

How long will you halt between two opinions? First, it is disregarded because, well, everyone has some sin in their lives. Then it is, this must be racism. It's all about pulling down the black man. At some point in life you have to grow up and be accountable for your own actions.

Please hear me, not everything in life is about "the black man." Although some would have you believe it to be so.

Are there racists in the world? Yup, plenty of them. I continue to encounter them in my travels. These will be judged by God.

But understand this: there is no race or sexual gender in God. If you have allegiance to a race or allegiance to a gender or allegiance to an economic status, you are not operating in Christ. If any of these things can cause you to modify your stand for God, then you have already lost the fight.

LukeBritt · Jul 4, 2005

All rock and rap are bad and sinful. We should have our own little faith ghetto where we have our own rap and rock groups that are second class to what the world has to offer...Yeah, that sounds like greatness.

Lpe04 · Jul 5, 2005

I think that some rap and rock is beautiful and has a good message. I am very happy and thankful to God that we have music, and I know that He wants us to enjoy ourselves and to be happy. There can be racists who are saved who will not be judged by God. Remember we are all saved by grace and all of our sins are forgiven. We will never be judged by God because God has made us holy, blameless, and rightoues through Christ. Praise be to our God our Father and the Lord Saviour Jesus Christ for ever!

God Bless

invisible trousers · Jul 5, 2005

Ainesis said:
Yes, the basis of this criticism is certainly an anti-black thing.

[angry words]

i didn't mean you specifically you need to calm down, and i'm done because this conversation is worthless.

Solomonthewise · Jul 5, 2005

Ainesis said:
depeds on what you call decorate. Some things we may think of as decoration, God may see as defiling.

Plus, it always sheds light to look at the history of things. Where do they come from? What do they mean?

Just a quick thought.

I think peircings are fine, yeah sure some tattoos may look nice (too us) but when does the fact that god says that we shouldnt defile (meaning mermanent to my understanding) stop and the justification for it begin?

Useually when people want something theyll try to justify their reasons for getting it ie you see a nice top you like and you think hey i havnt brought anything for myself for a while, so you buy it.

not as server as gatting a tattoo but you get where im coming from, in my opinion its like people who believe in evolution!

the point is god said our bodies are our temples there for we shouldnt defie them, and there is no way to refine this answer anymore than what it is, so the best thing to do is to take it in the broad way in which it is put across and not get anything to "defile" it! why not be on the safe side.

this Philosophey also goes for the musical influences, if there is ANYTHING about it that is in anyway unchristian it should be avoided.

InDeathIsLife · Jul 5, 2005

Yes, it is, unless the message is Christian. However, this Christian message presents itself in strange ways.

For instance, did you know that Black Sabbath is/was actually a Christian band? Take the lyrics to their s/t song, for instance. They describe terror and fear at being caught as a sacrifice to Satan. They were a Christian band who were forced to adopt an anti-christian look because of the record company's lust for money.

It is sad, hmm? And surprising.

Solomonthewise · Jul 5, 2005

InDeathIsLife said:
Yes, it is, unless the message is Christian. However, this Christian message presents itself in strange ways.

For instance, did you know that Black Sabbath is/was actually a Christian band? Take the lyrics to their s/t song, for instance. They describe terror and fear at being caught as a sacrifice to Satan. They were a Christian band who were forced to adopt an anti-christian look because of the record company's lust for money.

It is sad, hmm? And surprising.

But untrue, how can you consider a band with members who take drugs drink way too much alchohl are covered in tattoos and give out a totally unchristan immage, christian?

not to mention your basing all this on just one song no doubt!

Just the lyrics from their song doesnt make a band christian, for all you know the rest of the song could say. "so i feed the fear to feed the devil" or anything like that you never know its not just the song you look at.

Not to mention Ozzy Osbourne titled/s himself as the prince of darkness, now thats saying somthing!

Ainesis · Jul 5, 2005

invisible trousers said:
i didn't mean you specifically you need to calm down, and i'm done because this conversation is worthless.

And neither was I giving "angry word." Perhaps we could both take a moment to try and not read into comments being made?

Have a great day!

Ainesis · Jul 5, 2005

Lpe04 said:
There can be racists who are saved who will not be judged by God.

No there cannot. If a racist is saved, then they can no longer be a racist. There are no "saved" racists, but there can be saved persons who used to be racists.

Ainesis · Jul 5, 2005

InDeathIsLife said:
Yes, it is, unless the message is Christian. However, this Christian message presents itself in strange ways.

For instance, did you know that Black Sabbath is/was actually a Christian band? Take the lyrics to their s/t song, for instance. They describe terror and fear at being caught as a sacrifice to Satan. They were a Christian band who were forced to adopt an anti-christian look because of the record company's lust for money.

It is sad, hmm? And surprising.

Have you all heard of strange fire in the Bible? Do people understand that God doesn't just take anything that is offered in His name as acceptable? Do we appreciate the fact that slapping the name of Jesus, references to God, or inserting Bible Scriptures into something does not mean it is ordained by Him?

I am not asking any person specifically, but just in general. The Bible is full of stories where individuals do things in the name of God/Jesus that are rejected by Him because they are the work of man and not God.

This is where discernment can be so important. God says that as we reach maturity in Him, we should be able to discern good from evil. If God says to avoid something, who knows better? Him or us? Is it okay to play with fire simply because we know what we are doing, we don't see the harm in it, or we do it in Jesus' name?

As for the aforementioned band...sorry, but that is hogwash. Nobody can force you to modify your stand for Christ. You have to choose to. If they choose a record deal, money, or fame over Christ, then they have simply turned on God.

LukeBritt · Jul 5, 2005

Listen to whatever music you want to.

Solomonthewise · Jul 5, 2005

Not judging but just listening to what ever music ya want to is in my opinion being a bad christian,

Ainesis · Jul 5, 2005

LukeBritt said:
Listen to whatever music you want to.

Absolutely!

Because each person will follow the Spirit that leads him/her. You cannot be more than what you are.

If you are of the world, then you will mind the things of the world. If you are born of God's Spirit, then you will follow the leadings of that Spirit.

The desires you possess, and how you act upon them, speak forth the life that is within you.

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Ephesians 5:6-11

Lpe04 · Jul 5, 2005

Ainesis said:
No there cannot. If a racist is saved, then they can no longer be a racist. There are no "saved" racists, but there can be saved persons who used to be racists.

We are saved by grace. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins, including racists. Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". I'm yet to meet one single person who accepted Christ and didn't receive the Holy Spirit. Take for instance the criminal on the cross, he just believed in Christ before he died, and Christ gave him eternal life. He didn't have to come down from the cross and build a church or become a better person, he just believed in Christ. We are made righteous by believing. This is the power of God and Christ's incredible love for us all and the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:9-11 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

God Bless

Ainesis · Jul 5, 2005

Lpe04 said:
We are saved by grace. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins, including racists. Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". I'm yet to meet one single person who accepted Christ and didn't receive the Holy Spirit. Take for instance the criminal on the cross, he just believed in Christ before he died, and Christ gave him eternal life. He didn't have to come down from the cross and build a church or become a better person, he just believed in Christ. We are made righteous by believing. This is the power of God and Christ's incredible love for us all and the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Repentance is not just being sorry for your sins. It is a turning away from what you were. It is agreeing with God regarding your sinful condition and a commitment to leave those "old" things behind.

God says:
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

If such divisions still exist in your mind (as they would have to for one to be a racist), then by the word of God, such persons are not in Christ. In Christ, brothers and sisters are one in the Lord. Divisions only remain for those who are outside of Christ.

It is not about works neither is it about becoming a better person. It is about being transformed into the image of God. Only those who are in Christ (and Christ therefore "in" them) are saved. This is a predestined work of God; and faithful is He to complete it in those who are called according to His promise.
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:29-30

If you believe that one who professes Christianity and simultaneously is a racist is also saved, then you are mistaken.

Lpe04 · Jul 5, 2005

Ainesis said:
If you believe that one who professes Christianity and simultaneously is a racist is also saved, then you are mistaken.

If you believe that anyone who believes in Christ is not saved then you are very mistaken. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever (racist, prostitute, drug dealer, soccer mom, rebelious teen, etc.) believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I pray that you can see that the love of God and the power of Christ's shed blood and death for us is greater than any racist view, etc. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". I'm sure there are some things that you aren't perfect in, and you should be very thankful that God is not holding those things against you, and that He has forgiven you, just as He forgives racists or anyone. We can never sin out of the grace and love of God.

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

By the way, I am not the one making the divisions. Racists, drug dealer, prostitute, grandma, pastor, we are all one in the Lord. We all have received the same Holy Spirit and are one in the Spirit of God. This is why Paul said there is no Jew, Greek, etc. We are all one now We have an amazing God!!!!!

God Bless

holo · Jul 5, 2005

A racist can be just as saved as a junkie or a judgmental legalist. I'm saved even if I'm dumb. I'm saved even though I'm still hearing impaired. Or poor. Etc.

Ainesis · Jul 5, 2005

Lpe04 said:
If you believe that anyone who believes in Christ is not saved then you are very mistaken.

And if you believe that everyone who says "Lord, Lord" is saved, then you are very mistaken.

There are evidences to a believer; and that is not merely a verbal confession.

Lpe04 said:
I'm sure there are some things that you aren't perfect in, and you should be very thankful that God is not holding those things against you, and that He has forgiven you, just as He forgives racists or anyone.

No one has disputed that. The question is not does God forgive. However, repentance must precede forgiveness. Further, there is a cleansing that occurs after forgiveness is given to change us so that we no longer are what we were.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

For you to imply that He forgives but does not cleanse us from the sin is a lie (if that is your implication).

Lpe04 said:
We can never sin out of the grace and love of God.

Hogwash, but that is another discussion.

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:26-29

Lpe04 said:
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Lpe04 said:
By the way, I am not the one making the divisions. Racists, drug dealer, prostitute, grandma, pastor, we are all one in the Lord.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." I Corinthians 6:9-11

is listing to rock and rap a sin?

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