Is Jesus God?

[sparow]

Glad this is out on controversial Christian thread because there are some really heretical claims here.




I recommend studying Christology.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders-2-podcast/s6

That series of podcasts will survey the various views and how they were both defended and defeated as heretical.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father are YHWY in scripture. They are three persons the compose one God (shema).

They have different personal,attributes (only Jesus has a body)

It is not one person who keeps changing modes! "In the OT Jesus was the father" is a heresy known as modalism.

I sampled the podcasts; pluralist I am not, particularist I am not; modalism and heresy are curiosities, I follow the scripture and not the teaching of men.

 

[Colter]

Are you talking genetics or metaphors?

All personality is from the Father.

God the Son is a divine personality. The Father delegated powers and authority to his Son.

The Son created us, we are all sons of God.

So I wouldn't say genetics.

 

[Basil the Great]

Is Jesus God? This is the teaching of the Nicene Creed.

 

[sparow]

It is a little more complicated than that.

Creedal Christians hold to the early church creeds.

Nicene Creed -325 CE
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

They don't believe that Jesus is eternal and "not made."

They don't believe in the trinity.

They don't believe in original sin.

They believe Lucifer was Jesus brother and the two fought over would be the messianic savior, Jesus one.

We all lived together on a preexisting spirit-world.

There is no hell just four places one will live based on how they lived this life.

There was no Christian church from the time Jesus died until Joseph Smith.

They don't pray to Jesus at all, ever.

I could go on but they are not even close to Christian in their worldview.

But they don't drink (not even iced tea), or chew, or run with those who do. Add they dress up for temple, so they must be doing something right. Just kidding they are a cult group, plain and simple.

The Ten Commandments could be called a creed, but otherwise creeds are teachings of men and God does not require them; they are at best a fraction of God's teaching.

 

[Uber Genius]

The Ten Commandments could be called a creed, but otherwise creeds are teachings of men and God does not require them; they are at best a fraction of God's teaching.

Yes men like Jesus.

Creeds apply God-given rationality to God-breathed scriptures to deduce:

1 - truths about God, like the fact he exists in three persons but is one being.

2 - Truths about his work, Jesus death was to atone for our sins.

3 -'truths about the church, there is one universal body of believers.

4 - truths about the future - we will rule with him when his kingdom comes

As to the Ten Commandments - we are no longer slaves to the Law. By that law "no flesh was or shall be justified."

Galatians 3 and 4, Romans 2-4 make it clear that the Law given to restrain evil in the chosen people UNTIL THE PROMISED SEED (Jesus)CAME.

Has Jesus come?

Then the Law is fulfilled.

Don't put yourself back under the law.

Now don't misunderstand (or misrepresent) what I'm saying. I'm NOT saying that he law wasn't good, or God's intent at the time. But it was a temporary measure.

The Law, including the 10 commandments, was put in place for one people (Canaanites) at one time (until messiah comes), for one purpose (restrain evil and maintain a pure remnant that would birth the Messiah ( see the Marian and Josephian genealogies).

On these two things hang all the laws and the prophets, love God with all your heart (shema Deut.6:4 ) and love your neighbor as yourself.

Three hundred years ago in the US, trappers and explorers used flint and tinder to start fires. They were important and good. Now any Cub Scout can carry a Bic lighter and presto, fire. That doesn't mean flint and tinder were bad, but think how ridiculous one would be to try and use that process now.

It's worse than that really. No one on the planet can be adopted as a son of God by keeping the Ten Commandments. They are in a museum having been used for all God intended them for.

God's laws of love, mercy, care for the downtrodden, peace and adoption to the dispossessed, is written in every believer's heart.

Now that is a Law I can get behind.

 

[Wilson Davis]

In my opinion, no Jesus is not God. How could Jesus be his own father? Doesn't really make sense. My son is not his own father I am. We are two different people.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In my opinion, no Jesus is not God. How could Jesus be his own father? Doesn't really make sense. My son is not his own father I am. We are two different people.

That's the trouble with english and western and greek thought.
Take a few years to casual find out what is written in
YHWH'S WORD about YHWH and Y'SHUA, echad, as one eternally.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In my opinion, no Jesus is not God. How could Jesus be his own father? Doesn't really make sense. My son is not his own father I am. We are two different people.

The key word, from the Christological debates from antiquity, is homoousios. From the Greek homo meaning "same" and ousios meaning "being" or "essence" or "substance".

The Nicene Creed says the Son (Jesus) is homoousios with the Father. Translated, "of the same being", to which is added the phrases, "God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God".

Jesus is not the Father. He's the Son and Word of the Father.

As the Son and Word he is God. Not a separate or different God, but the same God as the Father--Father and Son are of one Essence, one Being. What the Father is the Son is also.

When we say Jesus is God we mean Jesus, as the Son, is God. We do not mean that Jesus is the Father. Because to say that Jesus is the Father is the heresy of Sabellianism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is Mormonism! Not Christian. Jesus is the second person of the trinity and is eternal, not made, not created. The sonship language does not have to do with procreation to the NT writers or Early Church theologians.

Colter is a follower of the teachings of the Urantia Book. Urantia teaching is that the Father has a number of "Creator Sons" and Jesus is the Creator Son assigned to planet Earth. As such we are children of Jesus and grandchildren of the Father--basically.

This isn't Mormonism. Mormonism teaches that Jesus--as well as the rest of us humans--were all begotten in a pre-existent state as spirit children of "Heavenly Father". Jesus was tasked by "Heavenly Father" to be the Savior of the human race by giving us, when we were given physical bodies here on earth, the ability to believe in Him and obey the commandments of his gospel (as defined by Mormonism). Thus in Mormonism we are literally God's children, that is, God literally fathered us. Because in Mormonism God was once a mortal man who progressed to godhood, and he dwells near the star (or planet) Kolob, and God (and his wife, maybe) begat spirit children, which is what we were in our pre-mortal life. Which, also, is why the highest goal in Mormonism is to attain exaltation--godhood. Former President of the Mormon Church, Lorenzo Snow said, "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be" and this is generally (I don't know if "officially") accepted as Mormon teaching.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Uber Genius]

Colter is a follower of the teachings of the Urantia Book. Urantia teaching is that the Father has a number of "Creator Sons" and Jesus is the Creator Son assigned to planet Earth. As such we are children of Jesus and grandchildren of the Father--basically.

This isn't Mormonism. Mormonism teaches that Jesus--as well as the rest of us humans--were all begotten in a pre-existent state as spirit children of "Heavenly Father". Jesus was tasked by "Heavenly Father" to be the Savior of the human race by giving us, when we were given physical bodies here on earth, the ability to believe in Him and obey the commandments of his gospel (as defined by Mormonism). Thus in Mormonism we are literally God's children, that is, God literally fathered us. Because in Mormonism God was once a mortal man who progressed to godhood, and he dwells near the star (or planet) Kolob, and God (and his wife, maybe) begat spirit children, which is what we were in our pre-mortal life. Which, also, is why the highest goal in Mormonism is to attain exaltation--godhood. Former President of the Mormon Church, Lorenzo Snow said, "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be" and this is generally (I don't know if "officially") accepted as Mormon teaching.

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks for the heads-up.

I should have been more specific and said mormonesque. Heard of but never met an Urantia follower. Point was it is not a Christian understanding of Jesus. I work with both Mormons and JWs and have since 1980. Your description above is accurate and when one rolls this out to them they are surprised. A lot of their approach is to get one to think they are just another denomination, and "Book of Mormon is just another gospel. Thanks.

 

[Uber Genius]

All personality is from the Father.

God the Son is a divine personality. The Father delegated powers and authority to his Son.

The Son created us, we are all sons of God.

So I wouldn't say genetics.

I am interested in understanding this worldview more deeply. Someone has mentioned Urantia. Where would I go to get the "authorized version" of this worldview?

 

[juvenissun]

One of the issues here is past, present and future tense; was Jesus Elohim, I would say yes; was Jesus Jehovah, I do not know;

I do not know what the people who ask this question are actually asking.

That is what I was asking.

You do not know is not an acceptable answer. This answer put you in between Judaism and Christianity. Neither side would welcome you. You better figure out your theology and take side.

Jesus says (not Paul said): "My Father and me are one".

 

[juvenissun]

I don't want to get into the trinity and that wouldn't solve the problem. When we say God with a capital G we think we know what we are talking about but how is God different to Allah.

God is spirit, Jesus was flesh and blood; Jesus is the first born into the kingdom of God but the kingdom of God was already populated because Jesus said John was less than any already there.

.

You don't want to think about the Trinity, but that is exactly what you are trying to talk about.

God is Spirit. If so, then who or what is the Holy Spirit?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

..moved..

 

[juvenissun]

In my opinion, no Jesus is not God. How could Jesus be his own father? Doesn't really make sense. My son is not his own father I am. We are two different people.

So, Christians should not believe this illogical idea?
If so, why is there Christianity?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Is Jesus God or is He the son of God? This question has been asked recently and the quesion is loaded. A Jew I would expect would say no.

One of the issues here is past, present and future tense; was Jesus Elohim, I would say yes; was Jesus Jehovah, I do not know; was Jesus God when He walked the earth, His name was God with us; and He did raise himself from the dead; since His resurrection Jesus has a new name.

I do not know what the people who ask this question are actually asking. The word God is a title or rank, not different in nature to Lord, Prince, King, or Captain; if the word God is defined differently in scripture then that definition would be for a unique personality. Jehovah is a proper name with a unique meaning, it is not a title; Allah is a meaningful name not a title; Allah does not mean Jehovah.

When God became man His name changed as well as His title; He was not called God of the Jews but was called King of the Jews; Jesus now has a new name but His title is still king.

With the name, "God with us" I am not sure if this refers to Jehovah, Adonay or Elohim.

With "the Lord thy God" Lord could be Jehovah or Adonay and God is Elohim.

When we say God what do we mean; are our perceptions of God Biblical?

Yes, Jesus was God.


John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

In my opinion, no Jesus is not God. How could Jesus be his own father? Doesn't really make sense. My son is not his own father I am. We are two different people.

You're also mortals.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I am interested in understanding this worldview more deeply. Someone has mentioned Urantia. Where would I go to get the "authorized version" of this worldview?

Urantia is a cult.

 

[corinth77777]

Is Jesus God or is He the son of God? This question has been asked recently and the quesion is loaded. A Jew I would expect would say no.

One of the issues here is past, present and future tense; was Jesus Elohim, I would say yes; was Jesus Jehovah, I do not know; was Jesus God when He walked the earth, His name was God with us; and He did raise himself from the dead; since His resurrection Jesus has a new name.

I do not know what the people who ask this question are actually asking. The word God is a title or rank, not different in nature to Lord, Prince, King, or Captain; if the word God is defined differently in scripture then that definition would be for a unique personality. Jehovah is a proper name with a unique meaning, it is not a title; Allah is a meaningful name not a title; Allah does not mean Jehovah.

When God became man His name changed as well as His title; He was not called God of the Jews but was called King of the Jews; Jesus now has a new name but His title is still king.

With the name, "God with us" I am not sure if this refers to Jehovah, Adonay or Elohim.

With "the Lord thy God" Lord could be Jehovah or Adonay and God is Elohim.

When we say God what do we mean; are our perceptions of God Biblical?

He is the son of God....that makes him God....

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Is Jesus God or is He the son of God? This question has been asked recently and the quesion is loaded. A Jew I would expect would say no.

One of the issues here is past, present and future tense; was Jesus Elohim, I would say yes; was Jesus Jehovah, I do not know; was Jesus God when He walked the earth, His name was God with us; and He did raise himself from the dead; since His resurrection Jesus has a new name.

I do not know what the people who ask this question are actually asking. The word God is a title or rank, not different in nature to Lord, Prince, King, or Captain; if the word God is defined differently in scripture then that definition would be for a unique personality. Jehovah is a proper name with a unique meaning, it is not a title; Allah is a meaningful name not a title; Allah does not mean Jehovah.

When God became man His name changed as well as His title; He was not called God of the Jews but was called King of the Jews; Jesus now has a new name but His title is still king.

With the name, "God with us" I am not sure if this refers to Jehovah, Adonay or Elohim.

With "the Lord thy God" Lord could be Jehovah or Adonay and God is Elohim.

When we say God what do we mean; are our perceptions of God Biblical?

I don't know. Not matter to me. He opened God to us. It's more then enough for me.