Well, I am/speak Assyrian. And although I'm not sure how closely related Aramaic is to Assyrian, I can say without a doubt that "Ena" means "I", and "En" sounds like what I would use for "Am."
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Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter CantThinkofaUserName
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Well, I am/speak Assyrian. And although I'm not sure how closely related Aramaic is to Assyrian, I can say without a doubt that "Ena" means "I", and "En" sounds like what I would use for "Am."
ebia
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That's bringing an external idea from another culture of what it means to be god to the question. If one has mis-defined God of course one is going to run into confusion.
That's one reading of the temptation stories, but it has problems - Luke especially portrays Jesus as very human - albeit a quite exceptional human - from the very beginning.
The most explicit talk about laying aside is the poem in Philippians 2, which is echoed in the footwashing story in John 13.
On what terms could one answer that - what language exists for doing so?
One can only do so through language like metaphor and story (myth), its beyond the reach of propositional statements.
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Hi CantThinkofaUserName,
I will try again concerning being "fully divine" This has to do with the fact that His Spirit was divine, not human. But He gave up His equality with God in some areas to take "the form of a bond-servant and being made in the likeness of men." (Philippians 2:6)
One of these areas was knowing all that God the Father knows. Now Jesus could still read minds, and thus He knew all things about those He encountered. So on the beach, when Peter says "you know all things" to Jesus the implication is Jesus knew all things about Peter's thoughts and character, and more broadly about the thoughts and character of those Jesus encountered, John 21:17. But since Jesus did not know the time of His return, Jesus did not know all that the Father knew, while in the flesh. But to assert because God the Son "emptied Himself" when He became flesh, that somehow means He was not fully divine seems without merit.
You saw a movie that said or implied that Jesus set aside His omniscience when He was being tempted by the devil in the desert. Again, I have cited the specific scriptures that say He emptied Himself when He was made in the likeness of man - that would be conception in the womb, Philippians 2:5-6. He emptied Himself taking human form. He was rather limited until He was anointed with power when the Holy Spirit came upon Him (Acts 10:38). Then He went into the desert to be tempted. So He had the power to do whatever the Devil asked Him to do, but He did not use His power, see Matthew 4:1-11. Nowhere in the passage does the Devil ask Jesus to set aside His (limited) Omniscience. Just to state the obvious, Jesus was God the Son from conception, and was the Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed One from His baptism by John the Baptist around age 30.
How was Christ's Spirit different from ours? Let me count the ways. His Spirit always existed, ours was created. His Spirit was God, ours is human. He had divine knowledge from an early age, and so Jesus knew He was God the Son during His youth.
The Bible does not tell us when He became of aware of His divine nature, but by the time He was twelve, He knew He was God the Son. See Luke 2:40-52. Note also that He is learning (increasing in wisdom.) Bottom line, Jesus was different than mere humans from conception, and He knew of His divine nature when He was twelve, but He did not obtain the Power of Christ until He was anointed with the Holy Spirit. So He was different growing up, but He was WAY different once He was anointed.
I will try again concerning being "fully divine" This has to do with the fact that His Spirit was divine, not human. But He gave up His equality with God in some areas to take "the form of a bond-servant and being made in the likeness of men." (Philippians 2:6)
One of these areas was knowing all that God the Father knows. Now Jesus could still read minds, and thus He knew all things about those He encountered. So on the beach, when Peter says "you know all things" to Jesus the implication is Jesus knew all things about Peter's thoughts and character, and more broadly about the thoughts and character of those Jesus encountered, John 21:17. But since Jesus did not know the time of His return, Jesus did not know all that the Father knew, while in the flesh. But to assert because God the Son "emptied Himself" when He became flesh, that somehow means He was not fully divine seems without merit.
You saw a movie that said or implied that Jesus set aside His omniscience when He was being tempted by the devil in the desert. Again, I have cited the specific scriptures that say He emptied Himself when He was made in the likeness of man - that would be conception in the womb, Philippians 2:5-6. He emptied Himself taking human form. He was rather limited until He was anointed with power when the Holy Spirit came upon Him (Acts 10:38). Then He went into the desert to be tempted. So He had the power to do whatever the Devil asked Him to do, but He did not use His power, see Matthew 4:1-11. Nowhere in the passage does the Devil ask Jesus to set aside His (limited) Omniscience. Just to state the obvious, Jesus was God the Son from conception, and was the Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed One from His baptism by John the Baptist around age 30.
How was Christ's Spirit different from ours? Let me count the ways. His Spirit always existed, ours was created. His Spirit was God, ours is human. He had divine knowledge from an early age, and so Jesus knew He was God the Son during His youth.
The Bible does not tell us when He became of aware of His divine nature, but by the time He was twelve, He knew He was God the Son. See Luke 2:40-52. Note also that He is learning (increasing in wisdom.) Bottom line, Jesus was different than mere humans from conception, and He knew of His divine nature when He was twelve, but He did not obtain the Power of Christ until He was anointed with the Holy Spirit. So He was different growing up, but He was WAY different once He was anointed.
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B
Bible2
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Yes, and it should be noted that the description of omniscience includes both the Father and Jesus (Colossians 2:2-3) with regard to his immortal-human state after his resurrection. Before his resurrection, Jesus laid aside his omniscience with regard to his own concious human knowledge (Mark 13:32) in order to more-fully share in our mortal-human condition (Hebrews 2:17). Yet he still remained God (John 10:30).
The only thing that Jesus could not have laid aside and still have remained God would have been his divine, Spiritual uncreatedness (John 1:1-3), his from-everlasting-to-everlasting divine immortality (1 Timothy 6:16, Micah 5:2, John 8:58). It was by this essential aspect of divinity (I AM THAT I AM) that Jesus had the power to revive his human life into human-immortality after his human death (John 10:17-18, Romans 1:4). Because he was God, even as a human it was not possible for him to remain dead (Acts 2:24).
Yes. Jesus did not regain his omnipotence and omnipresence until after his resurrection (Matthew 28:18,20). Yet he still remained God before his resurrection (John 10:30).
That logical paradox only seems to prove the impossibility of the whole idea of omnipotence, when in fact it doesn't necessarily prove anything with regard to whether or not God can be omnipotent in reality. For we know from Zeno's paradoxes that one can seem to have logically denied the possibility of something while in fact all one has done is contradicted reality.
For example, Zeno's arrow paradox only seems to prove by logic that an arrow shot from a bow can never reach its target. For before an arrow reaches its target it has to first travel half of the distance between the bow and the target, and then it has to travel half the distance between the halfway point and the target, and then it has to travel half the distance between the three-quarters-way point and the target, and so on, and so on, so that the arrow will always have to travel a shorter and shorter distance, ad infinitum, so that it never reaches its target.
The logical fallacy here is the idea that an ultimately-infinitesimal distance is any distance at all in reality, where arrows do in fact end up reaching their targets. There could be a similar logical fallacy with regard to the God-rock paradox, a fallacy which, instead of involving a misconception of how the infinitesimal must relate to reality, involves a misconception of how the infinite (in this case infinite power) must relate to reality.
Even before his resurrection, Jesus at least sometimes was able to read minds (Matthew 9:3-4), just as he was at least sometimes able to do omnipotent-type things (Mark 4:41). But these abilities would not have come from his human spirit, which is just like ours (Hebrews 2:17), but from his divine Spirit (Colossians 2:9).
When Jesus gives a portion of his divine Spirit to Christians (John 20:22), some of them receive a gift called the "word of knowledge" (1 Corinthians 12:8) by which the Spirit miraculously gives them specific knowledge regarding something.
Actually, nothing requires that in order to remain fully divine, Jesus before his resurrection could not have purposely limited his conscious human knowledge in order to more fully share in the mortal-human condition (Hebrews 2:17).
The Bible doesn't say that Jesus limited his conscious human knowledge on the request of the devil. But because Jesus became fully human, he was tempted in every way that humans are tempted (Hebrews 4:15).
Even in heaven now, Jesus is still our fully-human high priest (Hebrews 7:24-26), with a human spirit no different than ours (Hebrews 2:17). But his divine Spirit is different from ours in its uncreatedness, innate immortality, infinitude, omnipotence, etc.
Jesus' human spirit has interaction with his divine Spirit, which indwells him without measure (Colossians 2:9, John 3:34). The human spirits of Christians also have interaction with his divine Spirit (Acts 8:29), and they receive it within themselves (2 Peter 1:4, Hebrews 6:4), but only in a limited measure, some more than others. For example, a Christian can have such a large portion of Jesus' divine Spirit within him that he is able to work amazing miracles (Romans 15:19).
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Too bad Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel aren't members here. (Although I did see someone touting "Apocalypto" in the OBOB forum a few years ago.
)
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Harry3142
Regular Member
Jesus is God, but God is more than Jesus:
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (I Corinthians 15:20-28,NIV)
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (I Corinthians 15:20-28,NIV)
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