Is Jesus Enough?

[flyfishing]

It's when they say "many" do this or "many do that" that is garbage. I agree Christ should be the focus, but I disagree with the "many" who are wrong.

Here, let me be more specific:

Many precious believers are in love with the things of the Lord, but they are not in love with the Lord Himself.

That's pretty specific...

Many Christian workers and ministers are in love with the Lord's work...the work of the Lord becomes more important than the Lord of the work

They are seeking "things" - words, prophecies, teachings, visions, dreams - but they are not seeking the Lord Himself

Among Christians I have discovered something. There is Jesus, and then there are all the things ABOUT Jesus that are NOT Jesus. Jesus Himself occupies only a small portion of what is said and done in Christian circles. Most of what is said and done is merely ABOUT Jesus, but it is NOT Jesus.

And here is the greatest bit of garbage...

I believe most sinners cannot see Jesus for the Christians. And I believe most Christians cannot see Jesus for the "church".

Why does this offend you,because you think it is an exxageration or perhaps conviction?

the message is not garbage. The amount of people having religous idols perhaps.

 

[Jim B]

Perhaps, Svt4Him, we use too many generalizations. Educk did not say “all,” he said “many,” and while that is a subjective evaluation, he is still entitled to it. It is not necessarily garbage. It’s just an opinion. No one is calling your opinions garbage even though we may disagree with you. For example …

You said something I object to when you said

And here is the greatest bit of garbage...

I believe most sinners cannot see Jesus for the Christians. And I believe most Christians cannot see Jesus for the "church".

I think educk has a point. I disagree with you on this point, but I am not saying what your believe is garbage. It’s just your opinion. No matter how strongly you believe you are right and I am wrong, it is still just your opinion. I happen to disagree and feel that the typical American church can do a better job of lifting up Christ and not just their own particular doctrines or practices. And I do believe many people’s perception of the church, as wrong as it may be, is just as educk defined it.

If what I believe is garbge to you, I would appreciate it you would simply disagree (respectfully) with my opinion and not label my beliefs as trash. I will listen to you when you treat my (and others) opinions with the same respect as I hope I am/we are treating yours.

 

[educk]

Please please please - be not offended.

The aim is to make it all about Christ. I purposely used many, and not all. If you are not included in the many, then blessed be the Lord. My personal experience is that there are many who is trapped in the trappings of Christianity. The question still remains:

Is Jesus Enough?

 

[educk]

Oh and PS Svt4Him

No-one said tongues and prophecy and all those things are wrong. It's more about the fact that many will stand before the Lord and say that we did all those things and He will say: I didn''t know YOU. See, it's all about relationship.

 

[flyfishing]

Please please please - be not offended.

The aim is to make it all about Christ. I purposely used many, and not all. If you are not included in the many, then blessed be the Lord. My personal experience is that there are many who is trapped in the trappings of Christianity. The question still remains:

Is Jesus Enough?

And the answer still is emphaticlly yes

 

[educk]

And the answer still is emphaticlly yes

Yip for me too.

You said earlier:
Thats why i mantain christianity is not complicated....

One of my pastors mentioned that the Gospel is easy enough for a six year old to understand. He said we really NEED someone to help us misinterpret it.

 

[Svt4Him]

Please please please - be not offended.

The aim is to make it all about Christ. I purposely used many, and not all. If you are not included in the many, then blessed be the Lord. My personal experience is that there are many who is trapped in the trappings of Christianity. The question still remains:

Is Jesus Enough?

No, Jesus is not enough. That is why Jesus gave apostles, prophets, teachers, preachers and evangelists. Think about it. It may sound sacrilegious, but God has chosen, in His wisdom, to use men to accomplish His will, and be co-laborers with Him. That's a great responsibility and honour. To say that all you need is Jesus, and you don't need those who Jesus have placed in your life is wrong. And to think that with just you and Jesus, you don't have to rely on the wisdom that men, who may be fathers of the faith, have to share to me is prideful.

And if you say people can't see Jesus because of Christians, I will say that's garbage. People can't see Jesus because of sin. They don't want their sin exposed, and because the god of this world has blinded their eyes, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Part of the greatness of God is He chooses the foolish things to confound the wise. So these "Christians" who turn others off, may be exactly what God wants them to be, to give hope to others who are not "Christian" enough as "most Christians" appear to be.

 

[Svt4Him]

Oh and PS Svt4Him

No-one said tongues and prophecy and all those things are wrong. It's more about the fact that many will stand before the Lord and say that we did all those things and He will say: I didn''t know YOU. See, it's all about relationship.

No, you're missing my point. There are threads saying Christians focus too much on this or that, and my reply to that is those saying these things focus too much on what Christians are focused on.

And those standing before God will also be asked if they fed Him, clothed Him, visited Him, by doing it to Him, through the least of His people.

 

[Jim B]

Yip for me too.

You (flyfishing) said earlier:
Thats why i mantain christianity is not complicated....

Reminds me of one of my favorite scriptures:

2 Corinthians 11.3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[flyfishing]

No, Jesus is not enough. That is why Jesus gave apostles, prophets, teachers, preachers and evangelists. Think about it. It may sound sacrilegious, but God has chosen, in His wisdom, to use men to accomplish His will, and be co-laborers with Him. That's a great responsibility and honour. To say that all you need is Jesus, and you don't need those who Jesus have placed in your life is wrong. And to think that with just you and Jesus, you don't have to rely on the wisdom that men, who may be fathers of the faith, have to share to me is prideful.

And if you say people can't see Jesus because of Christians, I will say that's garbage. People can't see Jesus because of sin. They don't want their sin exposed, and because the god of this world has blinded their eyes, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Part of the greatness of God is He chooses the foolish things to confound the wise. So these "Christians" who turn others off, may be exactly what God wants them to be, to give hope to others who are not "Christian" enough as "most Christians" appear to be.

Well at least i see your reasoning. However it is not garbage to suggest that "religious idols" exist. Men looks to man more than GOD often not. sad but true.

I do thank the LORD for who he uses in my life but at the same point what man is speaking is 99% of the time confirmation of what he speaks to me in private..

 

[educk]

Svt

Great - I respect your point of view, but I disagree. Jesus made it perfectly clear that we don't need men to rule over us and Paul also added that we don't need that any man teaches us, but God. The Eph 4.11 gifts are just that - gifts, not offices or positions or titles. It's used to build His Church, not to lord over people - so forgive me once again, it does sound a little sacrilegious. For Jesus to be the only answer is not pride, but Life, for even the Son of man came not to be served, but to serve. The least will be the greatest. I really DON'T need the wisdom of men, so the Word teaches, but I love the Body of Christ when it expresses Him, and having fellowship with brothers and sisters is like being with family.

And finally: Did the Lord not say He will convict the world of sin? Yes He did, and He never once solicited our help on the matter. The Lord said this is how they will know you are my disciples: When you have love one for another – I must therefore reject your sin analogy.

Be blessed and go in peace brother.

 

[educk]

No, you're missing my point. There are threads saying Christians focus too much on this or that, and my reply to that is those saying these things focus too much on what Christians are focused on.

And those standing before God will also be asked if they fed Him, clothed Him, visited Him, by doing it to Him, through the least of His people.

Ooooh, then you are really going to hate my post in the Full time ministry forum: Addicted to ministry? Please don't read it, you are going to get upset, and that's the last thing I want.

Thanks for sharing your mind though - I appreciate honesty.

 

[thinbo]

everyone has made very good points, so where does it go from here? Here's what I think.

In order to spend time with Jesus you need to see him in the faces of your brothers and sisters, they need to see him in you, you don't need all the garbage of religion that goes with it (who does), the sitting down, standing up, the saying the right words, the reading the right books, you just need to hang out with other Christians sometimes, that's all.

If you lived here you could hang out with me, we could just meet at my house, even get some more people round. We need to be built up as the body of Christ, because that's what we are, we are called to be builders, building one another up in love. The rest of the body of Christ needs us, not just here, but right where we are.

Satan wants to isolate us, so he can devour us, Jesus wants to draw us into relationship with people who need us, and who we will sometimes need. There is truth in the Mary/Martha thing and it is a deep one. But He wants us to pour out the perfume, on the feet of one another, because that is where he is.

 

[educk]

thinbo

Amen - the ministry of one-anothering, giving pre-eminence to the other with ONE LORD – Jesus Christ.

Your thoughts are a blessing to me. Let's not further divide the Body based on revelations and doctrine, but let's all be found in Jesus.

 

[thinbo]

He also wants us to pour it out on the lost. To pour out our entire lives. To just utterly waste ourselves on HIS Kingdom. To seek Him for others is far better than to simply seek Him.

 

[flyfishing]

I guess i never saw the rejection of church authority or such but just that we were declaring CHRIST must be all in all...

very good analogy with mary and martha..


Read the song of solomon, the beloved was abused by "the preachers of that day".. She found him who her soul longed for not in the company of mortal flesh.. Same with us. i pity anyone who does not find the LORDS loving face at home and only finds him through another mans faith....

 

[thinbo]

sorry, it I sound a bit full of myself, I will shut up.

 

[flyfishing]

sorry, it I sound a bit full of myself, I will shut up.

i dont see that.. Dont give up...

 

[educk]

sorry, it I sound a bit full of myself, I will shut up.

No please don't - you are revealing glimpses of His heart.

 

[thinbo]

Ok, I'm gonna quit being cagey:

I've been away all weekend, and I asked God to speak to me through dreams, I never normally have any dreams, I've been having lots.

Last nights was basically Mary1, Mary2, Mary3 and Martha.