Is it wrong to touch?

[invisible trousers]

When a person has sex alone, they are not alone. There is some love object focused on, which is an object of assumed beauty. The bitterness of a beautiful thing, which in the end is empty, is that it is a lie. Lies open a door to demons. When a person [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], if they are not orgasming with their spouse, they are opening the door to being made love to by demons. So enslaved do people become to these, that they may actually forgo natural intercourse, with a spouse, in favor of making love to demons. This type of enslavement is very difficult to break. When you have demons attached to your sex drive, they are deeply entrenched in your carnal will. This causes the flesh to rise up with pride, shunning the health of the spirit. The physical body then takes over, and lusts of the flesh succeed in destroying the individual. There is only one time sex with yourself is innocent. That is the first time. All successive sessions are based on the first one, and are no longer innocent.

It is possible to control one's self. But, after years of abuse, the body craves abuse. Do not fall for the lie.

could you please justify like...any of this?

 

[Aras]

could you please justify like...any of this?

I agree, that entire paragraph seemed like complete speculation.

 

[praying]

When a person has sex alone,

Well you don't need to clairfy the entire paragraph for me just explain how one can have sex alone?

When a person [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], if they are not orgasming with their spouse, they are opening the door to being made love to by demons.

I am sure it wasn't meant to be but this really struck me as quite humorous.

 

[amx]

Guys,
The reason masturbation does not make the desire disapate is because you are young and your hormones are surging. Whether you deal with it (touch) or let nature take it's course (wet dreams) the desire is going to return as long as you are in the age you are.

An eariler post made a comment about the bible not addressing abortion or cloning. The wanton destruction of human beings is discussed in the bible as being wrong. If no lives were taken during an abortion I probably wouldn't have a problem with it but of course without a death you wouldn't have abortion.

Masturbation is not listed in the bible and God is specific about the things he considers wrong, sexually speaking. Lust is a separate issue form masturbation. (see next post)

 

[amx]

Ok, I am going to be brave and talk about something that many of you may not have experienced. PREGNANCY

We have this sweet image of new mamas to be that is completely false. We tend to think of them as sweet, quiet, even tempered. In reality they are bundles of surging hormones. They are grumpy, hungry and until their bellies get too big their libido is off the charts.
Pregnant ladies are uncomfortable in so many ways and things don't work the way they used too, in some case they amp up. During pregnancy the blood flow to the vulva is greatly increased. Because of this some pregnant ladies can self pleasure merely by walking. In my case just riding in a bumpy van would do the trick. Believe me during that time I only needed release and I didn't need to be thinking about anything so lust was NOT a factor. Sometimes it felt like I needed sex like I needed air and my poor husband couldn't keep up. Although it's not something we discuss comfortably in this culture sex is still a gift from God.
God's book spells out plainly what should not be done. I do not want someone to be forced into false guilt because others are feeling uncomfortable. I do not want people comparing normal sexual function to abberance (beastiality). And I do not want pregnant women tied to chairs because they might be masturbating by walking. (pregnancy is hard enough without the masturbation police)

Now if you are uncomfortable don't do it. I am not uncomfortable. I am grateful for the fancy, wonderful body God gave me. I enjoy it's pleasures like good food, bubble baths, sleep when I've worked hard and the God given gift of sex.

 

[jochanaan]

Wow, amx! I didn't realize that about pregnant women! So if you're riding in a car on a rough road and "something happens," have you "done it"?

AwesomeMachine, from things I have experienced, it is not mere sin that opens the door to demons; it is sin coupled with guilt and fear. The Devil would like nothing better than to paralyze us with guilt rather than be God's warriors. Even if masturbation is a sin--and as we have said here many times, the Bible says nothing about it despite explicitly defining other sexual sins--not all sin opens the door to demons. But if somebody masturbates, fearing demons all the while because of posts like yours, then the door is open because of guilt and fear. This is needless! Christians acquainted with the Holy Spirit--and that should be all of us!--are heavily defended against such direct attacks. The Devil and his minions can only try to distract or misdirect us. God never intended us to fear demons, but to take arms against them and conquer them in His name.

I should add that like anything, masturbation can be overdone and take over one's life. But this does not make it evil in itself, any more than a single glass of wine is evil. If the Lord convicts you, ask forgiveness and turn away from excess. "For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust." (Psalm 103:14) He will surely forgive even this addiction and cleanse us from it. But why should any of us condemn what the Bible doesn't?

 

[sally.b]

Hey AMX I have never experienced anything like that !!!!

I reckon that when they were handing out the sex hormones that you got all my share !!!LOL !!!!

anyhow I think if that can happen (what your describing whilst walking etc) then you really cant call it masturbation as such as technically it is happening involuntary

 

[amx]

LOL it was absurd. I'm glad I'm not pregnant anymore but I'm not the only woman this happens too. According to my doctor and a few close girlfriends it's pretty common.

I don't want us to make the person without drive more holy than the person who has a strong drive because I can tell you it can be just chemical.

Now would it be wrong for a pregnant woman to go for a walk to "relieve tension?"

This is why I think it's a different issue for men. I believe if your thought life is pure there is no harm.

There are other angles to consider on this issue. If you believe it's a sin, is it a sin in every context? Little boys that haven't developed object permenence will sometimes walk around holding on to it through their pants. This feels good to them and it's reassuring, although it's taboo. Would anyone argue the three year old boy is sinning?

Also what if a husband and wife do it together as part of their love making ? [kinda falls in the same vein as the "christian naturalist movement". If you want to be nude with your spouse it's ok but I personally have to draw the line at nude beach volleyball as a Sunday school social.]

I think there are places where masturbation is wrong. If you are doing it instead of giving your love to your spouse thats unwise. If you are using images you never should have put in your brain in the first place thats wrong. Public places definately wrong.

If you feel it's wrong I don't fault you but I can't place this in the same light as the sexual sins God spelled out specifically. He does go into grizzly detail describing acts I had not even considered and wouldn't have thought of without reading the Torah. Even thinking about the things he spelled out turn my stomach. Beside these masturbation becomes a nothing.

Not a virtue, not a vice- a nothing in and of itself.

 

[Shizzle]

New internation version - Leviticus (punctuation removed for accuracy purposes)
Leviticus 15:
16: When a man has an emission of sperm he must bathe his whole body with water and will be unclean until evening
17: Any clothing or leather that has sperm on it must be washed with water and it will be unclean till evening
18: When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of sperm, both must bathe with water and they will be unclean until evening.

Even though this was a "ceremonial law" i put it forth as a strong support that masturbation cannot be inherently wrong for the following reasons:
A: It was considered equal for a man to touch and for a couple to have sex.
B: It was not treated as the sin offering Lev6:24-30, or any of the other offerings for that matter because it did not require an offering of any kind.

Because it was held equal with couples having sex, which is clearly not wrong at all, but "unclean" it cannot be wrong at all but only "unclean".
And because a woman becomes "unclean" about once a month for seven days or such we know that something being "unclean" has absolutely no correlation to being sinful.
Therefore if we conclude that because the old testament paranoid law that reaches everything from "bestiality" to "sitting on a bed a woman in her period sat on an hour earlier" yet does not say, or even possibly infer that masturbation is wrong in any respect, that it does not say or attempt to impy masturbation to be wrong, that it is not..

 

[amx]

New internation version - Leviticus (punctuation removed for accuracy purposes)
Leviticus 15:
16: When a man has an emission of sperm he must bathe his whole body with water and will be unclean until evening
17: Any clothing or leather that has sperm on it must be washed with water and it will be unclean till evening
18: When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of sperm, both must bathe with water and they will be unclean until evening.

Even though this was a "ceremonial law" i put it forth as a strong support that masturbation cannot be inherently wrong for the following reasons:
A: It was considered equal for a man to touch and for a couple to have sex.
B: It was not treated as the sin offering Lev6:24-30, or any of the other offerings for that matter because it did not require an offering of any kind.

Because it was held equal with couples having sex, which is clearly not wrong at all, but "unclean" it cannot be wrong at all but only "unclean".
And because a woman becomes "unclean" about once a month for seven days or such we know that something being "unclean" has absolutely no correlation to being sinful.
Therefore if we conclude that because the old testament paranoid law that reaches everything from "bestiality" to "sitting on a bed a woman in her period sat on an hour earlier" yet does not say, or even possibly infer that masturbation is wrong in any respect, that it does not say or attempt to impy masturbation to be wrong, that it is not..

Well thought out post

 

[jochanaan]

I agree, amx. It is a well-thought post.

 

[AwesomeMachine]

When a person has sex alone, they are not alone. There is some love object focused on, which is an object of assumed beauty. The bitterness of a beautiful thing, which in the end is empty, is that it is a lie. Lies open a door to demons. When a person [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], if they are not orgasming with their spouse, they are opening the door to being made love to by demons. So enslaved do people become to these, that they may actually forgo natural intercourse, with a spouse, in favor of making love to demons. This type of enslavement is very difficult to break. When you have demons attached to your sex drive, they are deeply entrenched in your carnal will. This causes the flesh to rise up with pride, shunning the health of the spirit. The physical body then takes over, and lusts of the flesh succeed in destroying the individual. There is only one time sex with yourself is innocent. That is the first time. All successive sessions are based on the first one, and are no longer innocent.

It is possible to control one's self. But, after years of abuse, the body craves abuse. Do not fall for the lie.

could you please justify like...any of this?





Sure thing. First of all, love making is spiritual. There are spirits involved. A man and wife meld souls when they make love. That is because this relationship is consecrated by God. When you have sex alone, or touch, there is an image of lust. This image of lust becomes the “love object” of your experience. Since this love object is not a real person, in the end it is empty and bitter. When a person sins, there is a short release of the neurotransmitter dopamine. If the dopamine is released by sin, it will cause a feeling of satisfaction, only to be followed by a plunge in dopamine levels, which causes the sensation of guilt. There is no amount of justification that will cause the dopamine to stay. If your satisfaction has, as its root, the deceit that you just had sex with a love object of lust, but your spirit hasn't received another spirit, dopamine levels will plunge soon afterward. This is why there is guilt.





Dopamine is the neurotransmitter responsible for reward feelings. Reward feelings are joy, peace, love, sense of well being, and sense of accomplishment. For well adjusted people, appropriate behavior causes dopamine to be released. Sin is avoided because, although it causes a slight spike in dopamine levels, this is always followed by a plunge in neurotransmitter level, causing the sensation of guilt. In people with addiction, there is a defect in the reward cascade, inside the nervous system. These people are naturally attracted to those things which cause a sudden spike in dopamine levels. These are all sin. Masturbation is one of those things.





If you have deceived yourself into sexual gratification by this, you have lied to yourself. Your flesh alone is quelled, but your spirit remains starving. This opens up an entry for demons. The Holy Spirit will not stay where there is lust. Lust is strictly against God's Word. This means there is essentially no spirit. Within the deceit you have created, there is a resting place for demons. For this is where demons rest, inside deceit. It is best to repent of lust, rather than justify it. God looks upon the repentant sinner with much greater mercy than the self righteous sinner.





This is where real deceit comes in. When you have justified you sin, you cannot make the cause and effect correlation between the cause and effect of your troubled life. People have about a 10 minute window where they can make a cause and effect relationship. When you justify your sin, it takes more than 10 minutes for the damage to show up. People who chronically sin, regardless of the sin, are enslaved to the short burst of dopamine, causing a sensation of being satisfied, and never correlate the ensuing crash, which might not happen until the next day, with the sin. This is why the world is captivated by sin. If you repent from sin, you are forgiven. If you repent long enough, sin will have an immediate bad effect. Then you can make the correlation. There is an old saying, “The Holy Spirit convicts the righteous very quickly.” If your lustful behavior blocks The Holy Spirit, forming a pattern of intentional sin, you will never notice the ill effects. You will continue to try and justify yourself in an attempt to ward off guilt. I guarantee you this is not the way to The Kingdom of God.





In the end, it is really up to the individual. I have scientific proof, but no amount of proof is sufficient for people who wish to remain in sin.

 

[Aras]

Sure thing. First of all, love making is spiritual. There are spirits involved. A man and wife meld souls when they make love. That is because this relationship is consecrated by God.

That people meld souls when they make love is speculation, you can't pass that as fact.

When you have sex alone, or touch, there is an image of lust. This image of lust becomes the “love object” of your experience. Since this love object is not a real person, in the end it is empty and bitter. When a person sins, there is a short release of the neurotransmitter dopamine. If the dopamine is released by sin, it will cause a feeling of satisfaction, only to be followed by a plunge in dopamine levels, which causes the sensation of guilt.

So far that is basic human anatomy.

Dopamine
A monoamine neurotransmitter formed in the brain by the decarboxylation of dopa and essential to the normal functioning of the central nervous system. A reduction in its concentration within the brain is associated with Parkinson's disease.

How does this relate to Sin?

There is no amount of justification that will cause the dopamine to stay. If your satisfaction has, as its root, the deceit that you just had sex with a love object of lust, but your spirit hasn't received another spirit, dopamine levels will plunge soon afterward. This is why there is guilt.

Again, you cannot medically prove this. Pure speculation. And if you were masturbating to your wife (with her there and consenting) as part of your lovemaking you would probably have the same medical response.


Dopamine is the neurotransmitter responsible for reward feelings. Reward feelings are joy, peace, love, sense of well being, and sense of accomplishment. For well adjusted people, appropriate behavior causes dopamine to be released. Sin is avoided because, although it causes a slight spike in dopamine levels, this is always followed by a plunge in neurotransmitter level, causing the sensation of guilt.

Could you be more specific then "Sin" I am willing to bet that not every single act of Sin causes this.

In people with addiction, there is a defect in the reward cascade, inside the nervous system. These people are naturally attracted to those things which cause a sudden spike in dopamine levels. These are all sin. Masturbation is one of those things.

Even people without an "addiction" enjoy masturbation. And all because you said "All these are Sin" does not make it so. I still hold masturbation is not a Sin and some if not a much of your argument (particullary the part about making love to demons) is speculation.

If you have deceived yourself into sexual gratification by this, you have lied to yourself.

The first time I masturbated I had gratification without any decieving necessary. It wasn't like I had to talk myself into enjoying it. (though I am careful not to let the pleasure control me as that is idolization)

Your flesh alone is quelled, but your spirit remains starving.

Speculation.

This opens up an entry for demons.

Speculation.

The Holy Spirit will not stay where there is lust.

Justify this. I see no where in the Bible where it ever says the Holy Spirit will leave us.

Lust is strictly against God's Word. This means there is essentially no spirit. Within the deceit you have created, there is a resting place for demons.

Speculation. And again, what deceit? That masturbation is sexually gratifying? It is, from a physical standpoint that is not deceit, it is fact.

For this is where demons rest, inside deceit.

Again, you are speculating, and I still don't think it is deceit.

It is best to repent of lust, rather than justify it. God looks upon the repentant sinner with much greater mercy than the self righteous sinner.

Considering I don't believe Masturbation is a Sin I don't need to be repentent.

This is where real deceit comes in. When you have justified you sin, you cannot make the cause and effect correlation between the cause and effect of your troubled life.

My life is not troubled. And it is not a Sin.

People have about a 10 minute window where they can make a cause and effect relationship. When you justify your sin, it takes more than 10 minutes for the damage to show up.

Give an example.

People who chronically sin, regardless of the sin, are enslaved to the short burst of dopamine,

Enslaved? Hardly. One time when someone was argueing against masturbation and made this claim he dared me to go three weeks without masturbation. I did, there is no enslavement involved, and if so that is a Sin, but not because it is masturbation, but because it is an idol.

causing a sensation of being satisfied, and never correlate the ensuing crash, which might not happen until the next day, with the sin.

Maybe it is just because it is 2:30 AM but I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

This is why the world is captivated by sin. If you repent from sin, you are forgiven.

I still don't believe it is a Sin.

If you repent long enough, sin will have an immediate bad effect. Then you can make the correlation.

Bad effects? Such as...

There is an old saying, “The Holy Spirit convicts the righteous very quickly.” If your lustful behavior blocks The Holy Spirit, forming a pattern of intentional sin, you will never notice the ill effects.

Perhaps because their are none? As far as I can tell so far unless you force yourself to repent and have a guilt trip there are none.

You will continue to try and justify yourself in an attempt to ward off guilt. I guarantee you this is not the way to The Kingdom of God.

You can guarantee what the way to the Kingdom of God is?

I the end, it is really up to the individual.

What is?

I have scientific proof, but no amount of proof is sufficient for people who wish to remain in sin.

Scientific proof of which point? You made several points and you can't have scientific proof for every point.

 

[eh7]

hmmm....

 

[invisible trousers]

In the end, it is really up to the individual. I have scientific proof, but no amount of proof is sufficient for people who wish to remain in sin.

Scientific proof that sin is related to dopamine levels would be excellent.

I can't respond to all your points right now (yay, homework), but I have a feeling that you're kind of digging yourself into a hole with that and other claims you've left unsubstantiated.

 

[jochanaan]

...First of all, love making is spiritual. There are spirits involved. A man and wife meld souls when they make love...

What other spirits than the spirits of the man and woman?

It is very true, or should be, that in marital intercourse there is a giving of one's spirit into the other's hands. But I have never heard or sensed any indication that other spirits, angelic or demonic, are involved--except for the Holy Spirit of God, present in all Christians and watching all others.

And none of us have claimed that masturbation is or should be a substitute for sex. Indeed, it is precisely because it is NOT sexual intercourse (remember, intercourse, sexual or otherwise, by definition involves two or more people) that I have concluded that it is not wrong.

 

[Smurfe189]

I'm very confused at this point, because I have tried both sides of this argument and both have their downfalls.

If I touch regularly, I wind up feeling guilty and I feel like I have sinned.

If I don't touch, then I wind up having wet dreams. The last wet dream I had was about a girl at my school who (in the dream) commited suicide before my eyes and in her dieing breath asked me to have sex with her, and I couldn't really stop myself.

Which is worse? Masturbating or dreaming of sex with a dead girl?

Either way I feel like a terrible person.

 

[praying]

I'm very confused at this point, because I have tried both sides of this argument and both have their downfalls.

If I touch regularly, I wind up feeling guilty and I feel like I have sinned.

If I don't touch, then I wind up having wet dreams. The last wet dream I had was about a girl at my school who (in the dream) commited suicide before my eyes and in her dieing breath asked me to have sex with her, and I couldn't really stop myself.

Which is worse? Masturbating or dreaming of sex with a dead girl?

Either way I feel like a terrible person.

You have no reason to feel guilty IMHO, the BIble is silent on the subject and as long as you are not letting mastrubation control you I don't think you need to worry. Also you certaily have no control over your dreams. If it was a repeatig dream then perhaps talking to someone is in order but one strange dream does not a strange young man make.

 

[amx]

Smurfe
Don't feel badly about dreams. My naughty dreams (during pregnancy) were disturbing also. Let go of your guilt because neither of these things merit guilt. Ask the Lord to help you have the right attitiude about your sexuality and not to be laden down with inappropriate guilt.

 

[AwesomeMachine]

When a person has sex alone, they are not alone. There is some love object focused on, which is an object of assumed beauty. The bitterness of a beautiful thing, which in the end is empty, is that it is a lie. Lies open a door to demons. When a person [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], if they are not orgasming with their spouse, they are opening the door to being made love to by demons. So enslaved do people become to these, that they may actually forgo natural intercourse, with a spouse, in favor of making love to demons. This type of enslavement is very difficult to break. When you have demons attached to your sex drive, they are deeply entrenched in your carnal will. This causes the flesh to rise up with pride, shunning the health of the spirit. The physical body then takes over, and lusts of the flesh succeed in destroying the individual. There is only one time sex with yourself is innocent. That is the first time. All successive sessions are based on the first one, and are no longer innocent.

It is possible to control one's self. But, after years of abuse, the body craves abuse. Do not fall for the lie.

could you please justify like...any of this?





Sure thing. First of all, love making is spiritual. There are spirits involved. A man and wife meld souls when they make love. That is because this relationship is consecrated by God. When you have sex alone, or touch, there is an image of lust. This image of lust becomes the “love object” of your experience. Since this love object is not a real person, in the end it is empty and bitter. When a person sins, there is a short release of the neurotransmitter dopamine. If the dopamine is released by sin, it will cause a feeling of satisfaction, only to be followed by a plunge in dopamine levels, which causes the sensation of guilt. There is no amount of justification that will cause the dopamine to stay. If your satisfaction has, as its root, the deceit that you just had sex with a love object of lust, but your spirit hasn't received another spirit, dopamine levels will plunge soon afterward. This is why there is guilt.





Dopamine is the neurotransmitter responsible for reward feelings. Reward feelings are joy, peace, love, sense of well being, and sense of accomplishment. For well adjusted people, appropriate behavior causes dopamine to be released. Sin is avoided because, although it causes a slight spike in dopamine levels, this is always followed by a plunge in neurotransmitter level, causing the sensation of guilt. In people with addiction, there is a defect in the reward cascade, inside the nervous system. These people are naturally attracted to those things which cause a sudden spike in dopamine levels. These are all sin. Masturbation is one of those things.





If you have deceived yourself into sexual gratification by this, you have lied to yourself. Your flesh alone is quelled, but your spirit remains starving. This opens up an entry for demons. The Holy Spirit will not stay where there is lust. Lust is strictly against God's Word. This means there is essentially no spirit. Within the deceit you have created, there is a resting place for demons. For this is where demons rest, inside deceit. It is best to repent of lust, rather than justify it. God looks upon the repentant sinner with much greater mercy than the self righteous sinner.





This is where real deceit comes in. When you have justified you sin, you cannot make the cause and effect correlation between the cause and effect of your troubled life. People have about a 10 minute window where they can make a cause and effect relationship. When you justify your sin, it takes more than 10 minutes for the damage to show up. People who chronically sin, regardless of the sin, are enslaved to the short burst of dopamine, causing a sensation of being satisfied, and never correlate the ensuing crash, which might not happen until the next day, with the sin. This is why the world is captivated by sin. If you repent from sin, you are forgiven. If you repent long enough, sin will have an immediate bad effect. Then you can make the correlation. There is an old saying, “The Holy Spirit convicts the righteous very quickly.” If your lustful behavior blocks The Holy Spirit, forming a pattern of intentional sin, you will never notice the ill effects. You will continue to try and justify yourself in an attempt to ward off guilt. I guarantee you this is not the way to The Kingdom of God.





In the end, it is really up to the individual. I have scientific proof, but no amount of proof is sufficient for people who wish to remain in sin.​

Sure thing. First of all, love making is spiritual. There are spirits involved. A man and wife meld souls when they make love. That is because this relationship is consecrated by God.

That people meld souls when they make love is speculation, you can't pass that as fact.

When you have sex alone, or touch, there is an image of lust. This image of lust becomes the “love object” of your experience. Since this love object is not a real person, in the end it is empty and bitter. When a person sins, there is a short release of the neurotransmitter dopamine. If the dopamine is released by sin, it will cause a feeling of satisfaction, only to be followed by a plunge in dopamine levels, which causes the sensation of guilt.

So far that is basic human anatomy.

Dopamine
A monoamine neurotransmitter formed in the brain by the decarboxylation of dopa and essential to the normal functioning of the central nervous system. A reduction in its concentration within the brain is associated with Parkinson's disease.

How does this relate to Sin?

There is no amount of justification that will cause the dopamine to stay. If your satisfaction has, as its root, the deceit that you just had sex with a love object of lust, but your spirit hasn't received another spirit, dopamine levels will plunge soon afterward. This is why there is guilt.

Again, you cannot medically prove this. Pure speculation. And if you were masturbating to your wife (with her there and consenting) as part of your lovemaking you would probably have the same medical response.


Dopamine is the neurotransmitter responsible for reward feelings. Reward feelings are joy, peace, love, sense of well being, and sense of accomplishment. For well adjusted people, appropriate behavior causes dopamine to be released. Sin is avoided because, although it causes a slight spike in dopamine levels, this is always followed by a plunge in neurotransmitter level, causing the sensation of guilt.

Could you be more specific then "Sin" I am willing to bet that not every single act of Sin causes this.

In people with addiction, there is a defect in the reward cascade, inside the nervous system. These people are naturally attracted to those things which cause a sudden spike in dopamine levels. These are all sin. Masturbation is one of those things.

Even people without an "addiction" enjoy masturbation. And all because you said "All these are Sin" does not make it so. I still hold masturbation is not a Sin and some if not a much of your argument (particullary the part about making love to demons) is speculation.

If you have deceived yourself into sexual gratification by this, you have lied to yourself.

The first time I masturbated I had gratification without any decieving necessary. It wasn't like I had to talk myself into enjoying it. (though I am careful not to let the pleasure control me as that is idolization)

Your flesh alone is quelled, but your spirit remains starving.

Speculation.

This opens up an entry for demons.

Speculation.

The Holy Spirit will not stay where there is lust.

Justify this. I see no where in the Bible where it ever says the Holy Spirit will leave us.

Lust is strictly against God's Word. This means there is essentially no spirit. Within the deceit you have created, there is a resting place for demons.

Speculation. And again, what deceit? That masturbation is sexually gratifying? It is, from a physical standpoint that is not deceit, it is fact.

For this is where demons rest, inside deceit.

Again, you are speculating, and I still don't think it is deceit.

It is best to repent of lust, rather than justify it. God looks upon the repentant sinner with much greater mercy than the self righteous sinner.

Considering I don't believe Masturbation is a Sin I don't need to be repentent.

This is where real deceit comes in. When you have justified you sin, you cannot make the cause and effect correlation between the cause and effect of your troubled life.

My life is not troubled. And it is not a Sin.

People have about a 10 minute window where they can make a cause and effect relationship. When you justify your sin, it takes more than 10 minutes for the damage to show up.

Give an example.

People who chronically sin, regardless of the sin, are enslaved to the short burst of dopamine,

Enslaved? Hardly. One time when someone was argueing against masturbation and made this claim he dared me to go three weeks without masturbation. I did, there is no enslavement involved, and if so that is a Sin, but not because it is masturbation, but because it is an idol.

causing a sensation of being satisfied, and never correlate the ensuing crash, which might not happen until the next day, with the sin.

Maybe it is just because it is 2:30 AM but I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

This is why the world is captivated by sin. If you repent from sin, you are forgiven.

I still don't believe it is a Sin.

If you repent long enough, sin will have an immediate bad effect. Then you can make the correlation.

Bad effects? Such as...

There is an old saying, “The Holy Spirit convicts the righteous very quickly.” If your lustful behavior blocks The Holy Spirit, forming a pattern of intentional sin, you will never notice the ill effects.

Perhaps because their are none? As far as I can tell so far unless you force yourself to repent and have a guilt trip there are none.

You will continue to try and justify yourself in an attempt to ward off guilt. I guarantee you this is not the way to The Kingdom of God.

You can guarantee what the way to the Kingdom of God is?

I the end, it is really up to the individual.

What is?

I have scientific proof, but no amount of proof is sufficient for people who wish to remain in sin.

Scientific proof of which point? You made several points and you can't have scientific proof for every point.

Answer,

I use a mind-body-spirit complex in order to solve problems, which plague mankind. God is Mind-Body-Spirit; Father-Son-Holy Spirit; Truth-Love-Justice. Man is created in Gods image. Man is mind-body-spirit. Man's mind seeks God's Mind, or The Father, or All Truth. The object of the mind is Truth. Man's heart seeks God's Heart; The Body of God; The Son; Jesus; or All Love. The object of the heart is good. Man's soul seeks The Soul of God, or The Holy Spirit; All Justice. Man's soul seeks justice. The object of the soul is justice. In a person enslaved to masturbation, the maxim: "A villain returns to the scene of the crime, a dog to its own vomit." is evidently true. In this case, the mind is ruled by the heart. When the needs of the heart are lustful, there is no real love involved. Where there is no real love, there is no justice. Where there is no justice, there is no Holy Spirit. Whenever there is something a person wants to do, but they cannot invite God to participate with them, and they don't want anyone else to see them, and they are drooling over pictures of men sodomizing each other, and it makes them apostate teachers, relaying the filth of their unchaste customs to others, they become a grave under peoples' feet waiting for another to fall in.

Is this you? I hope not. My freedom was hard won. I have just handed everyone the key. If you prefer your prison cell, keep masturbating. I prefer the light of day to hiding in darkness, lusting after unnatural acts, hardened in sin. I never was attracted to sodomy, but I hear people who advocate masturbation are sodomites. Flesh is sacred. It is to be used for the Glory of God, to fulfill God's purpose, not lusting after a man's hairy backside while demons make love to you. If you do this, you are not Christian. There is no such thing as a Christian who advocates that people lust. how true the verses: "There are false teachers among you. They are enslaved to their passions, uttering bombast."

I built a house where deceit could not live. Deceit dismantled the house into tiny pieces, consuming them one by one. This is not the same as saying you can eat a house. For the house turned to poison inside the gut of deceit, and the sodomites were no more. Once the house of Truth is built, whether it be consumed by the innocent or the wicked, it will still serve God's purpose. The enemies of God will be destroyed. Those who keep God's commandments will live. That is the nature of the universe. It destroys God's enemies by the Divine Justice imprinted upon it at creation. Anything that does not do the Will of God is destroyed.