Brightfame52
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What you think Gal 5:22 and 2 Thess 2:13 are if not scripture ?
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What you think Gal 5:22 and 2 Thess 2:13 are if not scripture ?Certainly your mind has not been changed by the facts of Scripture.
Of course they are Scripture? I've never said otherwise.What you think Gal 5:22 and 2 Thess 2:13 are if not scripture ?
Okay then, I base my convictions on scripture, which makes your previous comment irrelevant.Of course they are Scripture? I've never said otherwise.
Why do you think these verses say what you claim?
Your claim is baseless.Okay then, I base my convictions on scripture, which makes your previous comment irrelevant.
Crickets from the calvinists.What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
Maybe you should ask, 'what passages?'. Do you operate verse by verse?Your claim is baseless.
You haven't yet provided ANY verses that support any of TULIP.
What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
You have none.
Your convictions are baseless. As I've shown.
Lol, Yours is baseless .Your claim is baseless.
You haven't yet provided ANY verses that support any of TULIP.
What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
You have none.
Your convictions are baseless. As I've shown.
OK, what passages?Maybe you should ask, 'what passages?'. Do you operate verse by verse?
And here, by your say-so alone, 6000 years of the sovereignty and grace of God is rendered impotent.
Your claim is baseless.
You haven't yet provided ANY verses that support any of TULIP.
What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
You have none.
Your convictions are baseless. As I've shown.
So you wanna play the argument from silence game. Tell me therefore:Your claim is baseless.
You haven't yet provided ANY verses that support any of TULIP.
What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
You have none.
Your convictions are baseless. As I've shown.
What are you, then, if not Arminian?ps: I am NOT an Arminian. My view of eternal security is MORE secure than calvinism.
OK, what passages?
What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
I haven't "rendered 6,000 years of the sovereignty and grace of God impotent".
What I am doing is rendering calvinism impotent.
You have NO verses that state any of the points of TULIP.
ps: I am NOT an Arminian. My view of eternal security is MORE secure than calvinism.
You have not shown our convictions are baseless.No, it's the other way around. Calvinists have not shown any Scripture that states any of the 5 points.
I've heard that before.We have none? There are MANY.
I believe I did. So show me 1, to prove I am in error. If there are any, it should be easy.Are you saying there ARE no verses supporting TULIP?
Of course you think there are verses that "support" TD. Here's the challenge. I agree totally that man is unable to save himself. But calvinists go TOOOOO far and also claim under TD that man is unable to believe unless regenerated, or something like that.On this site alone, just under Total Depravity I count 20 PASSAGES quoted, many of them with more than one verse. The others of the five points are similarly supported. And they obviously kept their quotes short for brevity's sake.
Eph 2:5 equates regeneration with salvation. v.8 says we are saved by gracd THROUGH faith. That means faith must be present, in order for salvation to occur.
So, since regeneration AND salvation are equated, BOTH require faith to be present first. That KILLS the calvinist claim about regeneration preceding faith.
I've seen such lists before. I'm not going to address some web link. But if you are so motivated to copy and paste specific verses to the other 4 points, please do.
No, I'm just trying to make it easy for calvinists to give 1 verse. Can YOU do it?You say, "What verse says God chooses who will believe?"
--One verse?? Is that how you operate?
Why do you think these verses say that God chooses who will believe? Rather, you think that is what they mean. But they don't say it.Just for starters: Rom.8:28 - Rom.8:33; Rom.9:16 "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."
Again, NONE of these verse say that God elects people to salvation. If you had read this thread, you would have seen all my verses where the clear purpose of election was service.You say, "What verse says God elects to salvation?"
--Just for starters: John.6:37 - John.6:39; Matt.24:31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Except none say that. And there are numerous verses that actually and plainly say that Christ died for all. And don't get me started on that lame nonsense about "all" doesn't really mean everyone. I know as well as you that UNLESS the verse clearly shows that "all" is limited to a specific group, it DOES MEAN EVERYONE.You say, "What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?"
--Just for starters: John.10:24 - John.10:29; Acts.13:48 "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
Where does it say that man cannot resist grace? It doesn't. You only think it means that, but it doesn't. v.13 is about regeneration. That is God's choice. Man believes, and God regenerates, which I've already shown in Eph 2:5 and 8.You say, "What verse says that grace is irresistible?"
--Just for starters: John.6:35 - John.6:40; John 1:12 - John 1:13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
This isn't about persevering in the faith. It's about God's faithfulness to keep all believers SAVED.You say, "What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?"
--Just for starters: Jn.10:27 - Jn.10:30
1Cor.1:8 "who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Explain the verses where believers are encouraged to "continue in the faith" or "remain in the faith". Acts 11:23, 14:22. And Luke 8:13. Jesus said that some will "believe for a while" and then "fall away". He wasn't talking about losing salvation, but ceasing to believe due to various challenges and distractions.
No, actually it is YOU who seem to be playing that game. You believe stuff that the Bible doesn't teach. So YOU are believing from silence.So you wanna play the argument from silence game.
Ha. If any of these things were true, there WOULD BE A VERSE THAT SAYS SO.Tell me therefore:
What verse says God does not choose who will believe?
What verse says God does not elect to salvation?
What verse says Christ did not ONLY die for the elect?
What verse says that grace is not irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will not persevere in the faith?
Most calvinists and arminians think that there are only 2 theologies out there.What are you, then, if not Arminian?
I do agree with this. But it doesn't support the calvinist claim that man cannot believe. And, you you know the context for this quote from the OT. That should clear up your misconception that this verse applies to everyone in the human race.Here's another, simpler, for those who can only digest one verse at a time:
Total Depravity
There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God.Romans 3:11, NASB
This verse doesn't EVEN mention election. So how can it support UE?Unconditional Election
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”Romans 9:15, NASB
Glad you quoted this verse. In ch 10, Jesus specifically mentionsLimited Atonement
“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.”John 10:11, NASB
Again, nothing about grace here. And Acts 7:51 actually SAYS the opposite: “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Since the Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin, etc, that is grace on God's part.Irresistible Grace
“All that the Father gives me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.John 6:37, NASB
This isn't perseverance, this is preservation. There is a difference.Perseverance of the Saints
“And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.”John 6:39, NASB
lol You a funny person, not even taking you serious !I said:
What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
You have none.
No, actually it is YOU who seem to be playing that game. You believe stuff that the Bible doesn't teach. So YOU are believing from silence.
Ha. If any of these things were true, there WOULD BE A VERSE THAT SAYS SO.
So your games don't work. YOU cannot prove what you believe.
You have not shown our convictions are baseless.
We have none? There are MANY.
Are you saying there ARE no verses supporting TULIP? On this site alone, just under Total Depravity I count 20 PASSAGES quoted, many of them with more than one verse. The others of the five points are similarly supported. And they obviously kept their quotes short for brevity's sake.
TULIP with Scriptures
You say, "What verse says God chooses who will believe?"
--One verse?? Is that how you operate? Just for starters: Rom.8:28 - Rom.8:33; Rom.9:16 "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."
You say, "What verse says God elects to salvation?"
--Just for starters: John.6:37 - John.6:39; Matt.24:31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
You say, "What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?"
--Just for starters: John.10:24 - John.10:29; Acts.13:48 "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
You say, "What verse says that grace is irresistible?"
--Just for starters: John.6:35 - John.6:40; John 1:12 - John 1:13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
You say, "What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?"
--Just for starters: Jn.10:27 - Jn.10:30
1Cor.1:8 "who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Who will take you seriously, when you have no verses that support TULIP?lol You a funny person, not even taking you serious !
So you think I should take you serious ?I said:
What verse says God chooses who will believe?
What verse says God elects to salvation?
What verse says Christ died ONLY for the elect?
What verse says that grace is irresistible?
What verse says that all believers will persevere in the faith?
You have none.
Who will take you seriously, when you have no verses that support TULIP?
No one.
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