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Is It Wrong to be a Christian out of Obligation?
- Thread starter Jaedan
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Silly Uncle Wayne
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Silly Uncle Wayne
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I am not sure what you are saying here. Paul when he tells husbands to love their wives is not telling them to decide to love, he is telling them that it is part of the relationship they have entered into. Having decided (even in an arranged marriage) to get married, they are then obligated to love/obey.
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GDL
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Guess your insertion of "mutual" throws it off for me.
Simple:
We're obligated to love because God commands us to love > we decide to love > in obedience to God we love > we learn to love more completely > we love more > we become perfected in love.
We're obligated to believe in Jesus Christ because God commands it > we decide to believe in Jesus Christ > in obedience to God we believe in Jesus Christ > we learn more to believe > we believe & obey more.
Why can't you love when love is action as defined, commanded & enabled by God?
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Cis.jd
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In that sense, yes. Your definition of obligated is corrected. I mean, a christian should have these moral/peaceful obligations but at the same time it has to be felt. Our reason to love God and to love others should not be because "we have to" it's because we actually feel it.
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JohnDB
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I was once at a zero balance...
Then I went into debt. But I figured that I'd pay it off eventually with enough work...
But as I was working on paying off the debt I was going deeper and deeper into debt.
And I managed the payments for a long time...
I'd also get tired of making those payments and the two jobs all the time. So occasionally I'd splurge and go deeper into debt to go have fun.
After a while I couldn't keep up with the payments...I ignored my phone. I only took mail out of the mailbox to make room for more bill notices...
And the day came...my debts were so much and so many that the collection agencies ganged up on me and took everything I owned and put handcuffs on me and sold me as a slave in the slave market... dividing up the money amongst themselves because no one wanted me to work as a slave...I was that worthless.
But Jesus paid for me.
All my debts were paid. My furnishings and house and vehicles restored complete with titles...food was in the pantry and fridge once again.
But
One catch.
All I had been was His
All I currently do is His
All I would do would be His as well.
I could survive and have a great eternal life...but I had to agree to those terms. I was Jesus' property or I could face the debts and slave, hard labor market again.
My choice.
And I don't want to go back to being independent again. Sure it's an obligation...but who cares? I have never had it so good. Why would I want to go back?
Then I went into debt. But I figured that I'd pay it off eventually with enough work...
But as I was working on paying off the debt I was going deeper and deeper into debt.
And I managed the payments for a long time...
I'd also get tired of making those payments and the two jobs all the time. So occasionally I'd splurge and go deeper into debt to go have fun.
After a while I couldn't keep up with the payments...I ignored my phone. I only took mail out of the mailbox to make room for more bill notices...
And the day came...my debts were so much and so many that the collection agencies ganged up on me and took everything I owned and put handcuffs on me and sold me as a slave in the slave market... dividing up the money amongst themselves because no one wanted me to work as a slave...I was that worthless.
But Jesus paid for me.
All my debts were paid. My furnishings and house and vehicles restored complete with titles...food was in the pantry and fridge once again.
But
One catch.
All I had been was His
All I currently do is His
All I would do would be His as well.
I could survive and have a great eternal life...but I had to agree to those terms. I was Jesus' property or I could face the debts and slave, hard labor market again.
My choice.
And I don't want to go back to being independent again. Sure it's an obligation...but who cares? I have never had it so good. Why would I want to go back?
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Silly Uncle Wayne
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But the analogy is with arranged marriage from the Bible, not modern marriage. And you can love anyone... it just takes effort.
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KisKatte
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No you can not love everyone. Even in the bible and with arranged marriages it is the grace of God if Love appears. And in the bible people reocgnized each other before marrying. They "Knew" each other. Like a reminder when they saw each other. It is the grace of God if Love appears and there are tons of reasons not being able to love anyboddy. Especially bad character or if the characters do not match at all. For example I had friends who denied that I can not eat some special foods, they still tried to force me to eat it and it made much stress. Such friends I sortet out because the damage for my soul is too much. Different characters, especially rude and unsensible man, cannot be loved by all women. That is nonsense. It is also not always a decision. You can try to make such a decision but when it succeeds it was because God already but the energy inside you that you imagine yourself you have decided it, but at this moment God already made it possible.
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GDL
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What do you think, Wayne, should we take this beyond an arranged marriage analogy?:
NKJ Luke 6:27-28 "But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 "bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you.
NKJ Luke 6:32 "But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
NKJ Matt 5:44-48 "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
I know it's tough, but this is not about how we feel, but about who we are in Christ. Hopefully you're smart enough to make the right decision assuming your marriage is not arranged by your family. Love is an obligation & this is where God is taking us.
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KisKatte
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Love between spouses is a much more intimidating thing than praying for enemies. I would not want to be a spouse of a man, whose enemy I am, and he pretends and imagines himself to love me only by praying for me. He could still be a tyrann. And not able to win my heart. You are mixing up things.
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KisKatte
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God said to pray for enemies and to forgive them. This is pure spiritual love. Has nothing to do to have sex with enemies, letting them touch you or even bear them children. And also not to share your private secrets with them. Or to completeley deliver yourself to them. A marriage with two enemies, if with God's grace no true love appears, I would consider a sin.
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