Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
Funny that is a bit of a "spin" on my statement.

Here's what you said. Did I misunderstand you?

"We see no hostility between Jews and gentiles in Acts 13 on the Sabbath in fact it is the gentiles that are asking for more gospel preaching "the next Sabbath"."

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
I notice you provide no "Do not take God's name in vain" quote before Exodus 20 in your response. What were you hoping to use as fact to back up your claim just then??

Not sure what you are trying to prove with that.

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
There is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath before it was given in Exodus chapter sixteen.

Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )
==============================

BobRyan said: ↑
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.
And we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week.

Saint Steven said:
That's not correct.

I notice you provide no "Do not take God's name in vain" quote before Exodus 20 in your response. What were you hoping to use as fact to back up your claim just then??

Saint Steven said:
Not sure what you are trying to prove with that.

I am proving that in the case of a very clear command "Do not take God's name in vain" that we both know is fully binding from Eden onward - the wooden "rule" you are trying to impose does not work.

And then of course there is --

Saint Steven said:
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given...

Again "informed" by scripture showing that the formal writing of law on Stone - did not mean no law existed.

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"
Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"
Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2019

Tone said:
Not true...Judah is only one tribe of Israel...if you are grafted in to the Commonwealth of Israel you are no longer of the nations, which is a good thing.

Here is the definition of the word gentile.

NOUN

a person who is not Jewish.

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week.

We don't "find" that at all.
Who knew about it before Moses wrote Genesis.
Do you think A&E had a KJV Bible?

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
Again "informed" by scripture showing that the formal writing of law on Stone - did not mean no law existed.

That was in reference to "the law". The law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses. That law. There are other laws. Like the law of conscience. (God's law) Which is probably what you are referring to.

Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
There is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath before it was given in Exodus chapter sixteen.

Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Saint Steven said:
We don't "find" that at all.

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Saint Steven said:
Who knew about it before Moses wrote Genesis.
Do you think A&E had a KJV Bible?

God and mankind

As both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate agree -
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Because we all read this part of the Bible ...

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"
Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"
Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given...

Again "informed" by scripture showing that the formal writing of law on Stone - did not mean no law existed.

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"
Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"
Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

Saint Steven said:
That was in reference to "the law". The law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses. That law. There are other laws. Like the law of conscience. (God's law) Which is probably what you are referring to.

Moses is talking to the same God as Abraham
Moses is writing to the same readers in Genesis as in Exodus

Same God, Same Author, Same Audience, Same phrase "Commandments, Statutes and laws".

Exegesis rules ...No wonder BOTH sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible-Sabbath debate accept this clear Bible teaching

Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Gentiles who are pagans - and have no access to scripture -- no access to God's Word --

Not the case with Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Israel.

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2019

Do you believe it is a sin to go to church on Sunday?

ace of hearts · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

So jump to another ship.

ace of hearts · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )
==============================

I notice you provide no "Do not take God's name in vain" quote before Exodus 20 in your response. What were you hoping to use as fact to back up your claim just then??

I am proving that in the case of a very clear command "Do not take God's name in vain" that we both know is fully binding from Eden onward - the wooden "rule" you are trying to impose does not work.

I've yet to see any evidence of this anywhere.

And then of course there is --

Again "informed" by scripture showing that the formal writing of law on Stone - did not mean no law existed.

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"

Moses is very contradictory and unreliable by what you intend the reader to understand by using this verse.

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

This is a partial sentence quote twisting the meaning of Scripture.

Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

So....

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
There is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath before it was given in Exodus chapter sixteen.

Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )
==============================

BobRyan said: ↑
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.
And we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week.

Saint Steven said:
That's not correct.

I notice you provide no "Do not take God's name in vain" quote before Exodus 20 in your response. What were you hoping to use as fact to back up your claim just then??

Saint Steven said:
Not sure what you are trying to prove with that.

I am proving that in the case of a very clear command "Do not take God's name in vain" that we both know is fully binding from Eden onward - the wooden "rule" you are trying to impose does not work.

And then of course there is --

Saint Steven said:
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given...

Again "informed" by scripture showing that the formal writing of law on Stone - did not mean no law existed.

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"
Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"
Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

ace of hearts said:
So jump to another ship.

Where you intending to post on a different thread? A navy ship oriented thread possibly?

ace of hearts · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

No one that I've seen says it doesn't. So do you have a point here?

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

No we don't. There's nothing binding on anyone in Gen2:1-3.

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

God and mankind

As both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate agree -
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Because we all read this part of the Bible ...

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"
Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"
Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

so....

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
There is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath before it was given in Exodus chapter sixteen.

Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )
==============================

BobRyan said: ↑
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.
And we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week.

Saint Steven said:
That's not correct.

I notice you provide no "Do not take God's name in vain" quote before Exodus 20 in your response. What were you hoping to use as fact to back up your claim just then??

Saint Steven said:
Not sure what you are trying to prove with that.

I am proving that in the case of a very clear command "Do not take God's name in vain" that we both know is fully binding from Eden onward - the wooden "rule" you are trying to impose does not work.

And then of course there is --

Saint Steven said:
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given...

Again "informed" by scripture showing that the formal writing of law on Stone - did not mean no law existed.

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"
Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"
Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

ace of hearts said:
I've yet to see any evidence of this anywhere.Moses is very contradictory and unreliable by what you intend the reader to understand by using this verse.

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

you failed to make a case just then.

Why not quote Deut 5 where it is inconvenient??

4 The Lord talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire. 5 I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up the mountain. He said:
6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Instead of "Chiseling NEW stone" in Deut 5 -- Moses points them BACK - to 40 years in the past calling them to obey the words "on tablets of stone" as given to them by God "And He added no more"

The very TEN that so many folks claim they are at war against.

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
There is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath before it was given in Exodus chapter sixteen.

Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Saint Steven said:
We don't "find" that at all.

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Saint Steven said:
Who knew about it before Moses wrote Genesis.
Do you think A&E had a KJV Bible?

God and mankind

As both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate agree -
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Because we all read this part of the Bible ...

Genesis 25 "Abraham kept my Laws, Commandments and Statutes"
Gen 4 "SIN is crouching at your door "
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"
Genesis 7 clean vs unclean animal distinction even though identifying them is not found until Lev 11.

Turns out - Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for 2000 years. I think we all knew that.

ace of hearts said:
I've yet to see any evidence of this anywhere .

Start by reading the post. The details in it particularly

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Do you believe it is a sin to go to church on Sunday?

I believe "Sin is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

As for "being in church on Sunday" - I have been there on Sunday a great many times. Probably will do it again this next Sunday.

But that does not mean I plan to break the Sabbath commandment on Sabbath.

What is your point?

BobRyan · Feb 21, 2019

BobRyan said: ↑
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

ace of hearts said:
No one that I've seen says it doesn't. So do you have a point here?

whoohoo! you posted that 6 minutes ago.. that means the answer I gave you two hours ago to that same question gets to be posted here on this thread as well.

thanks!

ace of hearts said:
OK So it's still a sin to take God's name in vain. Now what?

now we agree that Christ perfectly fulfilled that moral command - part of the moral law of God as Matthew 5 states

- but in fulfilling (perfectly complying) He did not open a door of rebellion for us to ignore the moral law of God. Rather He enables the Gospel benefit of the LAW written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant. It is not even remotely deleting the moral law to fulfill (comply with) it.

I "tried" to have that discussion with you on your thread - but you did not appear to be willing to have it then.

ace of hearts said:
Did I make that claim? No. Am I obligated to the law? No. Do I love Jesus? Yes!

I see so "taking God's name in vain IS a sin for you" -- as you admitted -- but you don't view it as a command from God's Word applicable to you? It is just a sin??

I find our logic "illusive" just then.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. Ok now that is scripture.

ace of hearts said:
Where does Jesus say it's OK to sin? Nowhere.

Amen! Not approved in the OT or NT.

A related question then. Where does he say "in vain do they worship me teaching for doctrine the commandments of men...setting aside the Commandment of God" .. ??

Hmmm "I know where that is"

Mark 7
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Tone · Feb 21, 2019

Saint Steven said:
There are other laws. Like the law of conscience.

There is also the "law of sin and death", which is abolished in Messiah.

Are you saying Torah is this law? Be careful how you answer.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
"The Sabbath" is not the name of a day of the week.
Here are your choices for names of the days of the week.
Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
Do you see "The Sabbath" in the names of the days of the week?
Neither do I.

יום ראשון Yom Rishon (1st day Sunday)
יום שני Yom Sheni (Monday)
יום שלישי Yom Shlishi (Tuesday)
יום רביעי Yom Revi'i (Wednesday)
יום חמישי Yom Chamishi (Thursday)
יום שישי Yom Shishi (Friday)
שבת Shabbat (7th day Sabbath...Saturday))

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Right.
I agree, you or anyone else, are mistaken on all those points.

Did Adam and Eve keep the seventh day with God?
On which day were they created?

They were created on the 6th day...Shabbat on the 7th day. They were not created for Shabbat, Shabbat was created FOR them" as Yeshua said...

Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

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