Is it worth it to take the chance of Hell?

[Albion]

To answer your first question, yes it is worth taking that chance because, by the teachings of the Christian church (or at least most of them) you go to hell if you are not born again in Christ, so I shall be there with Einstein, Gandhi, and every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Shintoist, atheist, agnostic, all native Americans, all native Australians.... it'll be a very crowded place, if indeed it does exist.

What makes you think any of them is going to be enjoying their stay, such that you'd like to get in on the action?

 

[paulm50]

Is it worth it to take the chance of going to hell? Someone asked me that the other day so it started me to think. Here's what it boils down to.

Old testament = Fear the Lord = Obey the Lord

New testament = Love the Lord = Spread the love

Can people fear and love the Lord at the same time?

I'm answering this on the basis these places exist.

The problem is in what does it take to win a place in Heaven or Hell? One version says so long as you ask for forgiveness and confess all your sins, it's fine. Another version say you have to keep the laws god passed down, some of which involve killing others, and so on.

Because many say different things. Who is right?

Oh carnal man... Always wants too see it to believe it, and even if you did you would still reject it. You may yet see it, not now however.

That's not a very Christian thing to say.

 

[Albion]

I'm answering this on the basis these places exist.

The problem is in what does it take to win a place in Heaven or Hell? One version says so long as you ask for forgiveness and confess all your sins, it's fine. Another version say you have to keep the laws god passed down, some of which involve killing others, and so on.

Who are you referring to there? I don't know of any Christian church that teaches what you have stated here, so who are you referring to?

It's easy to denigrate any idea or movement by finding some unrepresentative theory offered by some unrepresentative persons, and then contrasting that with the norm. And that assumes that there ARE such people in the first place.

 

[paulm50]

Who are you referring to there? I don't know of any Christian church that teaches what you have stated here, so who are you referring to?

It's easy to denigrate any idea or movement by finding some unrepresentative theory offered by some unrepresentative persons, and then contrasting that with the norm. And that assumes that there ARE such people in the first place.

Jesus himself said we should keep to the old laws.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

So who changed that?

 

[The Cadet]

So you compare a hypothetical being that no one, not even you, believe to exist, and which we know you just invented...with a God who has been believed by most of the humans on Earth for many years and for whom there is some well-travelled evidence?

Shall we discuss logic and probabilities once again or so you see how pointless that analogy of yours is?

There is no sufficient justification for the existence of the God of the bible. In fact, due to the problem of supernatural causation, there can be no sufficient justification for the existence of the God of the bible until we solve that problem. Even if every claim made about Jesus in reality is true, even if every miracle claim is true, even if he wrote "I am the god Yahweh" in the sky in great flaming letters each day at sunset, there would be absolutely no justifiable way to determine that this cause was supernatural or that the source of this supernatural cause is your god, rather than Sithrak. After all, Sithrak hates gullible people and wants to fool them. The number of people who believe in this god does nothing to strengthen your point. And of course, to the non-believer, they're also pretty much equivalent, so...

 

[GillDouglas]

I am suggesting that some people need to do a lot more repenting than others. For some repentance may only need be the acknowledgement of a mistake. For others repentance is the enormous need to feel they are not destined for hell.

You mistake a sinner for one living in sin. Those who are living in sin need to repent, turn their lives over to Christ, and no longer fear death. The saved are still sinners.

 

[GillDouglas]

Jesus himself said we should keep to the old laws.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

So who changed that?

Jesus did. He fulfilled the law. "When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (John 19:30)

 

[Dave RP]

What makes you think any of them is going to be enjoying their stay, such that you'd like to get in on the action?

If the hell of the Christians exists then millions of good people are going to suffer for an eternity, people who did no wrong in their lives, is that what your god intended? If however the hell of the Muslims is correct, then all Christians are ending there - is that what their god intended. To me it just ludicrous, to really think that billions of people will go to eternal damnation, even if they lived a faultless life is beyond imagination. Do you really believe that?

 

[Albion]

If the hell of the Christians exists then millions of good people are going to suffer for an eternity, people who did no wrong in their lives

Find me a person who has done no wrong in his life and we'll discuss it.

 

[GillDouglas]

Belief is not a conscious choice. For what would I be held accountable for?

You have heard the truth here and see it all around you, yet you remain blind. You believe in yourself and rely on your own understanding. Your unbelief is a choice and for that you are being held accountable.

 

[paulm50]

There is no sufficient justification for the existence of the God of the bible. In fact, due to the problem of supernatural causation, there can be no sufficient justification for the existence of the God of the bible until we solve that problem. Even if every claim made about Jesus in reality is true, even if every miracle claim is true, even if he wrote "I am the god Yahweh" in the sky in great flaming letters each day at sunset, there would be absolutely no justifiable way to determine that this cause was supernatural or that the source of this supernatural cause is your god, rather than Sithrak. After all, Sithrak hates gullible people and wants to fool them. The number of people who believe in this god does nothing to strengthen your point. And of course, to the non-believer, they're also pretty much equivalent, so...

There are very easy ways to prove god exists, if he is who others claim.

The bible shows how weak or evil he is. Eve, tree, apple, snake. Cain & Abel. The flood, Exodus, Jericho, and so on display how weak or evil he is. One doesn't put temptation in front of a child then get annoyed when the child takes it. It's a lot easier to move people out of a land than delivering plagues to kill, or knocking down walls so genocide can occur.

So where is the proof god exists?

 

[KCfromNC]

So you compare a hypothetical being that no one, not even you, believe to exist, and which we know you just invented...with a God who has been believed by most of the humans on Earth

Christians are a minority of the world's population.

 

[True Scotsman]

I guess I'm putting it as a logical consequence: whose reality ought I to follow more?

This assumes there is more than one reality. What is your definition of reality. Mine is the realm of things which exist

You have heard the truth here and see it all around you, yet you remain blind. You believe in yourself and rely on your own understanding. Your unbelief is a choice and for that you are being held accountable.

He's seen a bunch of assertions and when he and I ask for objective evidence, none is ever provided.

 

[Dave RP]

Find me a person who has done no wrong in his life and we'll discuss it.

Why do I have to find such a person? The point I was making is that if the hell of the Christian church is real, then every Muslim, every Buddhist, every agnostic, every atheist, however well they've run their lives is condemned, yet a child rapist who repents isn't, do you really believe that is the intention of God, should he exist?

 

[GillDouglas]

There are very easy ways to prove god exists, if he is who others claim.

The bible shows how weak or evil he is. Eve, tree, apple, snake. Cain & Abel. The flood, Exodus, Jericho, and so on display how weak or evil he is. One doesn't put temptation in front of a child then get annoyed when the child takes it. It's a lot easier to move people out of a land than delivering plagues to kill, or knocking down walls so genocide can occur.

So where is the proof god exists?

You misunderstand His intentions. He wrote the story when He created this world and He got to determine how things played out. Everything happened the way He intended, even your current state of unbelief.

 

[Albion]

Christians are a minority of the world's population.

Yes. 2 billion out of 6 billion is a minority. Now...how many followers are there of the god you described as yours--

"my deity, Sithrak The Blind Gibberer"

Can we say...one??

You've made my point quite effectively.

 

[GillDouglas]

He's seen a bunch of assertions and when he and I ask for objective evidence, none is ever provided.

And no man will. You are currently blind for a reason, for His purpose. If you are His, He will give you the evidence you seek. Until then we will prayerfully continue to minister to the lost.

 

[Albion]

Why do I have to find such a person?

Because your point was about such a person. If there is none, you don't have a point.

The point I was making is that if the hell of the Christian church is real, then every Muslim, every Buddhist, every agnostic, every atheist, however well they've run their lives is condemned, yet a child rapist who repents isn't, do you really believe that is the intention of God, should he exist?

No. That was not your point. Your point was this (emphasis mine):

If the hell of the Christians exists then millions of good people are going to suffer for an eternity, people who did no wrong in their lives

 

[GillDouglas]

Why do I have to find such a person? The point I was making is that if the hell of the Christian church is real, then every Muslim, every Buddhist, every agnostic, every atheist, however well they've run their lives is condemned, yet a child rapist who repents isn't, do you really believe that is the intention of God, should he exist?

It's true what Paul says in Romans 3:23 that "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" but that does not mean we are all destined for Hell. Also most Christians will tell you that those who have, are or will be saved is not up to us. So for you to think that we believe any other denomination or religious follower doesn't have the potential to be saved is completely wrong. Again, it's not our place to decide who goes to Hell, that's God's right. "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9:22)

 

[Dave RP]

Because your point was about such a person. If there is none, you don't have a point.


No. That was not your point. Your point was this (emphasis mine):

OK, you're being pedantic for some reason, so I'll rephrase. Do you really believe that billions of Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, humanists, agnostics and atheists to name a few) who have led good lives LARGELY having done no wrong, will be confined to eternal damnation? The majority just for the bad luck of being in a place where they were taught a different religion from birth. Is that what your god intended?