Is it worth it to take the chance of Hell?

[ClothedInGrace]

Just credible evidence.

I have a hard time believing in things without a credible reason to do so, that's just the way I roll.

Yeah, well salvation is by Grace through Faith. We walk by what we do not see. Most people think as you do.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes it does.

Well, exactly.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yeah, well salvation is by Grace through Faith. We walk by what we do not see. Most people think as you do.

People can try telling quantum physicists that they don't believe something because they can't see it, and then try to explain the modern world without quantum physics.

Ezekiel 27.35 says people shall be astonished at the Lord in a coming day.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, exactly.

If you subscribe to scripture as being credible, then you have a valid point. I don't subscribe to scripture being a credible description of reality.

 

[bhsmte]

Yeah, well salvation is by Grace through Faith. We walk by what we do not see. Most people think as you do.

How you walk is unique to your own psyche and your psychological needs and the same applies to me.

 

[faroukfarouk]

If you subscribe to scripture as being credible, then you have a valid point. I don't subscribe to scripture being a credible description of reality.

You mean, your version of reality for me should supersede God's in Scripture?

 

[bhsmte]

You mean, your version of reality for me should supersede God's in Scripture?

No, that is not what I said.

Read it again.

 

[faroukfarouk]

No, that is not what I said.

Read it again.

I guess I'm putting it as a logical consequence: whose reality ought I to follow more?

 

[Davian]

John chapter 3 provides some sobering observations from the Lord Jesus about unbelief and its consequences.

Belief is not a conscious choice. For what would I be held accountable for?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Belief is not a conscious choice. For what would I be held accountable for?

Next time you're in court, try saying: Your Honor, I don't believe you exist.
Yet so many ppl take exactly this attitude toward God.

Whereas Hebrews 11 says: "He who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

 

[SarahsKnight]

That reminds me of the good thief on the cross. When the thief said I deserve what I am getting but then referred to Jesus and said this man has done no wrong, he was defending and expressing unconditional love for Jesus. He then asked Jesus if Jesus would remember him. He did not ask for Jesus to save them as the other thief did. He only longed to be remembered by Jesus. And for this reason he was elevated above all those that were there. He became the embodiment of the second great commandment along with Jesus himself. I am deeply moved by the compassion I see there.

Indeed. It sounded as though the repentant thief loved Jesus, rather than being afraid of - or worrying about - any possible consequences if he didn't come to love Him.

But no, some people just need that hellfire talk, apparently. But I scarcely see any increased "holy living" or strengthened relationships with God in other people as a result of it. Just pride like this ->
ClothedInGrace said: ↑
Oh carnal man... Always wants too see it to believe it, and even if you did you would still reject it. You may yet see it, not now however.

And the paralyzing fear and doubt like you will easily find in any number of threads begun by helplessly worried sufferers in the OCD forums section here. .... Just as I once was.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Indeed. It sounded as though the repentant thief loved Jesus, rather than being afraid of - or worrying about - any possible consequences if he didn't come to love Him.

But no, some people just need that hellfire talk, apparently. But I scarcely see any increased "holy living" or strengthened relationships with God in other people as a result of it. Just pride like this ->
ClothedInGrace said: ↑
Oh carnal man... Always wants too see it to believe it, and even if you did you would still reject it. You may yet see it, not now however.

And the paralyzing fear and doubt like you will easily find in any number of threads begun by helplessly worried sufferers in the OCD forums section here. .... Just as I once was.

Wow. That wasn't hellfire preaching, it was simply the truth. My focus is on the Grace of God. Hellfire preachers say things like "Repent you filthy sinner or you will burn forever!". Nahh, I'm just layin down the truth. Die in unbelief and hell is your destination.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Wow. That wasn't hellfire preaching, it was simply the truth. My focus is on the Grace of God. Hellfire preachers say things like "Repent you filthy sinner or you will burn forever!". Nahh, I'm just layin down the truth. Die in unbelief and hell is your destination.

Romans 2 says a lot about repentance. It's not a matter of opinion, or whether people with the most touchy-feely opinions get the religious prize. God does call to repentance and this is the truth.

 

[Davian]

Next time you're in court, try saying: Your Honor, I don't believe you exist.
Yet so many ppl take exactly this attitude toward God.

Whereas Hebrews 11 says: "He who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

I cannot see how this analogy works; I do not dispute the existence of other humans, or those that hold the role of judges.

Belief is not a conscious choice. I cannot decide to believe. For what would I be held accountable for?

 

[Messy]

Pray for him? Sure.

Wrong judgement? Not exactly. Many witnessed the miracles of Jesus and still did not believe.

But if someone never saw a miracle you can't just say that he still wouldn't believe. Some people need signs and wonders or a vision to be able to believe. Jesus said to one man: unless you people see signs and wonders you will by no means believe and He healed his son and he believed and his family. Lots of former atheists on youtube who say they saw hell and/or heaven and came back and converted.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I cannot see how this analogy works; I do not dispute the existence of other humans, or those that hold the role of judges.

Belief is not a conscious choice. I cannot decide to believe. For what would I be held accountable for?

Read John chapter 3.1-36, where this exact issue is dealt with, and you'll see that your argument is not with me.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

But if someone never saw a miracle you can't just say that he still wouldn't believe. Some people need signs and wonders or a vision to be able to believe. Jesus said to one man: unless you people see signs and wonders you will by no means believe and He healed his son and he believed and his family. Lots of former atheists on youtube who say they saw hell and/or heaven and came back and converted.

True, but some do reject the truth no matter what miracle they see.

 

[Givemeareason]

Romans 2 says a lot about repentance. It's not a matter of opinion, or whether people with the most touchy-feely opinions get the religious prize. God does call to repentance and this is the truth.

You have to keep in mind Jesus had to minister to the lowest common denominator as well.

 

[faroukfarouk]

True, but some do reject the truth no matter what miracle they see.

...and the Lord Jesus said that even if someone came back from the dead people would still not believe (Luke 16.31).

 

[Davian]

Read John chapter 3.1-36, where this exact issue is dealt with, and you'll see that your argument is not with me.

Is that not like reviewing how well a product works by reading the glossy brochure? Do you believe everything you read?